Smuggler Archive

Thread: Skill Points Change Proposal

ZallusNuranxis
Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:14 am
#40


BailorJayssek wrote:


But why force smugglers to prereq in unarmed when it is not used in the profession?






I use it. The knockdown is great as well as Center of Being. Knockdown Recovery is good if you fight NPCs and an occasional Taunt followed by Feign Death can pull aggro from a group mate and save your skin at the same time.


Is this the greatest use of points? Probably not, but I never hear any complaintsfrom my guild.


megacrafter
Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:26 am
#41


i'm a smugler rifleman as it says in my sig and i use my rifle all the time i use the specels from smugler but right now i have no ider why i have smugler except fro the fact that i want to smuggler which i cant but hay thats not what this threed is on so back to the point, i would love to not need the unarmed tree i would love haveing ranged saport as the main poster seid mixing melee and ranged is not good the devs sould have picked one and stuck with it, now pre -cu i could sort of see as reson for the unarmed but now its just a waste of sp.



JJK
Master Shipwright
two time pilot remaster
master BH as devs wont let me use a rifle as a smuggler (alt)

my goodbye post, i'll miss you all. see you on EVE
Bria reborn
The Doomsday Mark I (my m22-krayt)
gassygunslinger
Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:22 pm
#42

I think where our differences are drawn is the fact that you don't think Smuggler is worth the extra fifteen points, whilst many of us do... I personaly beleive Smuggler is good, it may be more fitting to give high unarmed stats... Think about it... If you are to chose one or the other, then the bonus can't stack really, can it? And its not like there's another hybrid that gives out high combat mods... *cough* BH *cough*... But again, it boils down to the fact that Smuggler isn't a complete combat proffession... In a way, I see a point... Its an oxymoron of itself. It isn't meant to give high combat mods, so it isn't really supposed to be a fighting proffession... Yet it requires two "combat" pre-requisites... It is pretty screwed up, but I stand by my oppinion that Smuggler is worth it. Yes, Pistoleer has better defense and accuracy, and one vital attack, but in the skilled hands, the smuggler is much more deadly. If the smuggler kept his wits about him, a Master Smuggler could easily beat a Master Pistoleer. But thats not the point... Direct PvP isn't what matters. Its the mixing ability that does. If you throw Master Pistoleer onto anything, you get a root, and a few defenseand accuracymods. There's not much pistoleer has to throw into the mix. Its really stupid to havePistoleer as your main proffession, becausepistols are weak in comparison, and if you use rifles for example, as your main proffession, you are just left with the general accuracy and defense mods, which could be acquired fromCarbiner... So really, you are just left with a root. ButSmuggler on the other hand, is worth its weight in gold (or specials that is). Concussion shot... You really take it for granted. Its not only used to run away. I use it totake on 3-4 enemies that would ordinarily cream me,bydazing most of the group, while I focus on one. If you throw alittle bit of Commando into the pot (novice is enough) you get access to AoE weapons, and can daze an entire group easily! You can choose your target and have a go at him. As for Feign Death? It really doesn't go with much, but it helps you dungeon crawl, and is awesome in itself. Last Ditch? This infamous "Iwin button" (of which I have, on an occasion hadwonbecause ofit against a jedi... And jedi are who have coined this term)... You mix this with a bit of healing, and/or Rifleman, and you have a high-powered, damaging shot that you can heal from instantly using your healing... Also, I personaly have 4000 CM, which makes me sort of a tank in some occasions. I think Smuggler is well worth the extra points, not in itself but its flexibility.We are awesome at crowd control. We have awesome specials. If all you want Smuggler to be is a bunch of general defense/accuracy mods like Bounty Hunter so we can be "self-sufficient" (which I beleive it is NOT) thenI guess we can't be "equal"... But we are the best at what we do. If we couldn't get helpelsewhere in doing it, then what would be the point of Pistoleer? It would, as yousaid, just be our retarded brother.



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MisterWizard
Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:40 pm
#43

One possible solution is to not have a Smuggler require any specific skill trees; instead, have it require any combination of TWO basic novice professions, and ANY two complete branches in those professions. Entertainer 4-0-0-0 and Artisan 0-0-4-0? OK, you prequalify. But what about combat? Well, if you want to be a combat smuggler, take combat profession prereqs.

Consider the two big smugglers in Star Wars: Han Solo and Jabba the Hutt. Han was the prototypical smuggler used for SWG -- a pistol-wielding scoundrel. Jabba, however, is probably the better smuggler, and he probably doesn't have many combat skills at this point in his career. (Perhaps Eating is an elite profession in the movies...)

If being a Smuggler entailed smuggling, we'd be able to have DE smugglers (what better delivery mechanism?), or Shipwright smugglers, or combat smugglers, or whatever. But as long as they decided that Smuggler was also a "combat profession," we'll have to learn to live with smuggling with predefined combat notions and the relevant prereqs. I think people would accept that if it meant Smuggler did smuggling, but until it does, the point is kind of moot.



Alaric (Wanderhome)
Alrik (Flurry)


AFTER SWG, play some online baseball at http://www.csfbl.com.
gassygunslinger
Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:59 pm
#44

Okay, first off, Jabba WASN'T a smuggler... He was a spice lord, who OWNED smugglers. But I think the real problem is, that SWG originaly didn't have space combat, which meant when JTL came out, pilot proffessions are free of skill points. If they wanted to make it realistic, they would put Pistols 4 for land combat, and some other Tier 4 pilot skill (or the way things work, a row of tier 1's)



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Drakenya
Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:28 pm
#45

crime lord, but close enough




The Few. The Proud. The Trolleone.

Drakenya - Master Smuggler / Elder Assassin / S. A. Ace Pilot
Raken - Commando / Elder Rifleman, Carbineer
Drak' - Bounty Hunter

The Original
Descrambler

TalKurgan
Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:10 pm
#46

This may have been addressed, but Master Smuggler/ Master <one-tree>/ Master <novice> would require 11 additional SP. This is quite a bit.


Let me see if I have this straight. In a 'pure' combat profession, there's only one novice prerequisite. But the 'pure' combat profession offers nothing but combat ability, so it should be cheaper. The 'hybrid' professions should thus offer something more than this to justify their additional 15 SP in prerequisites.


I agree that slicing, spicing, and FP buying don't fill this void. I believe that the addition of smuggling missions would. If I could take a mission to trasport illicit cargo with all the appropriate risks, and with all the appropriate rewards (as discussed in the proposed and mystical smuggler revamp - 'Soon!'), then I'd gladly give up the SP and the flexibility a skill point readjustment would grant.


Just one smuggler's opinion. We all know how much those matter 'round here.


P.S. I love my smuggler combat abilities and I don't miss MBH one bit.I think I'm better offnow for having swapped it out. I know that's not the point here in the thread, but I felt the need to point that out. Most people aren't reading by this point anyway.




"And so our player base was coming around the corner and we were all BOOM! HEADSHOT! And then the veterans were coming down the stairs and, you know what? BOOM! HEADSHOT!" -FPSDev
Drakenya
Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:12 pm
#47

I'm reading! I agree that out stuff don't fill the void, but I really don't think its complete trash either. Missions would be great, but untill they come, I really wouldn't say we are totally gimped.




The Few. The Proud. The Trolleone.

Drakenya - Master Smuggler / Elder Assassin / S. A. Ace Pilot
Raken - Commando / Elder Rifleman, Carbineer
Drak' - Bounty Hunter

The Original
Descrambler

Aendracon
Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:07 am
#48






MisterWizard wrote:
One possible solution is to not have a Smuggler require any specific skill trees; instead, have it require any combination of TWO basic novice professions, and ANY two complete branches in those professions. Entertainer 4-0-0-0 and Artisan 0-0-4-0? OK, you prequalify. But what about combat? Well, if you want to be a combat smuggler, take combat profession prereqs.




What you are suggesting is basically more flexibility. I agree fullhearty with that. Currently, being a MSmuggler/MBH, I can either add Novice Carbiner/Rifleman or Novice Pistoleer plus a full tree. Now I know there are quite a couple of people out there actually going for Novice Carbiner - mainly because Carbines exceed Pistols - but frankly, this seems to be complete waste of the skill points necessary for the marksman pistol tree to me.


So what is wrong with Pistoleer? One word: Redundancy. I absolutely hate being a Smuggler/BH. Its an abomination. Only thing worse I could imagine is a BH/Jedi - and I am sure there are some out there too. I would really love playing the Han Solo style gunslinger (read: pistol wielding) ... but whether Smuggler is the Pistoleers retarded little brother or not, the last thing I need is more crowd control. The way I see it, only BH gives both a decent offense and defense bonus, which really comes in handy. And then there is the question of diversity. Why should Smugglers prefer pistols over other firearms anyway? We are post-CU at a point where Smugglers could use any ranged weapon (except for heavies) without penalty - safe for that marksman pistol tree prerequisite.


Right now, lacking any true Smuggler content, I could as well quit Smuggler in favor of Pistoleer and either some Carbine/Rifleman/TK skills and just pretend being a Smuggler anyway. Some of you may remember that this has been suggested, once.




Ryian Coron - Elder Smuggler
"do not assume your customers are morons. odds are they know a lot more about the situation than you do because they live with it every day. listen to them, actually listen, and take what they say into account. you might save some money, morons."
- Fernas
megacrafter
Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:44 pm
#49






MisterWizard wrote:
One possible solution is to not have a Smuggler require any specific skill trees; instead, have it require any combination of TWO basic novice professions, and ANY two complete branches in those professions. Entertainer 4-0-0-0 and Artisan 0-0-4-0? OK, you prequalify. But what about combat? Well, if you want to be a combat smuggler, take combat profession prereqs.

Consider the two big smugglers in Star Wars: Han Solo and Jabba the Hutt. Han was the prototypical smuggler used for SWG -- a pistol-wielding scoundrel. Jabba, however, is probably the better smuggler, and he probably doesn't have many combat skills at this point in his career. (Perhaps Eating is an elite profession in the movies...)

If being a Smuggler entailed smuggling, we'd be able to have DE smugglers (what better delivery mechanism?), or Shipwright smugglers, or combat smugglers, or whatever. But as long as they decided that Smuggler was also a "combat profession," we'll have to learn to live with smuggling with predefined combat notions and the relevant prereqs. I think people would accept that if it meant Smuggler did smuggling, but until it does, the point is kind of moot.





thats brilyent i would love that it would make my templte much better as i could get cm 4000 smugler and master rifleman as the CM tree in medic would count as my 2nd prewep woot much better i really hope the devs do this



JJK
Master Shipwright
two time pilot remaster
master BH as devs wont let me use a rifle as a smuggler (alt)

my goodbye post, i'll miss you all. see you on EVE
Bria reborn
The Doomsday Mark I (my m22-krayt)
megacrafter
Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:27 pm
#50


me want it me want it lol i can get rifleman smugler and dorop that tk and brawler for cm 4000 woot i could heal my self then i could acurly stand a chnace in a fight o well back to turrent sniping



JJK
Master Shipwright
two time pilot remaster
master BH as devs wont let me use a rifle as a smuggler (alt)

my goodbye post, i'll miss you all. see you on EVE
Bria reborn
The Doomsday Mark I (my m22-krayt)
BailorJayssek
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:54 pm
#51

People SERIOUSLY only address the combat portion of smuggler. "You CAN master such-and-such" where "such-and-such" is something combat related. But let's take a look at the current incarnation of Smuggler.


Our abilities? Mostly defensive--they allow us to avoid death or to escape harm. I am speaking as a solo player, NOT as a team PvP-er. Crowd control is primarily an ESCAPE ability for the solo player, unless dealing with a pair of like-levelled mobs. So, our combat ability is mostly for AVOIDING combat.


THREE of our FOUR trees under Smuggler are NOT related to combat. Underworld? Delinquency? Slicing? So that means Smuggler should be 75% NON-combat, 25% combat. Or at least 50/50. So that means that a Smuggler who LOVES combat should have an equal chance and mastering things as a Smuggler who DOESN'T. The current state of smuggler demonstrates that Smuggler was not INTENDED to be a 100% combat profession.


So for everyone that says "Smuggler has plenty of combat ability," I say "What about people who think--like the devs apparently did originally--that being a 'Master Smuggler' doesn't necessitate being 100% combat?"


Now, if the devs were to give to Smuggler ANY of the promised features in the arena of content, that would COMPLETELY change things. If we had Smuggling missions, or if we could loot our own slicing components (without going BH), or if spice were more varied, THEN our status as a hybrid would be completely justified. However, at the moment, that is not true.


It's something akin to thesix months between when you start PAYING for insurance and when you can USE it (on some policies). You're paying full price, but you don't get any of the features that you're paying FOR. In the case of Smuggler, however, the six months is instead marked as "indefinite." In the meantime, some added flexibility would be a fair trade for those of us who think Smuggler should be, at the most, HALF combat--allowing combat players to add more skill (up to the triple mastery I've seen) if they wish, and allowing non-combat players to achieve the same scope in non-combat professions (including triple mastery, like the combat players can do).


SIDE NOTE: Someone asked why Smugglers should be limited to pistol. My answer to that would be that pistols are small, and easily concealed. And since, according to all the promises and the current structure of Smuggler, we are not supposed to be 100% combat, that means we should be focused on avoiding and escaping combat. Those that want to run headlong into combat need only add more combat skills.
megacrafter
Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:48 pm
#52

/bmup



JJK
Master Shipwright
two time pilot remaster
master BH as devs wont let me use a rifle as a smuggler (alt)

my goodbye post, i'll miss you all. see you on EVE
Bria reborn
The Doomsday Mark I (my m22-krayt)
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