Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband/Missions PART 2 (Solutions)
Mor-Danwrote:
if the punishment is too harsh, it will cause a depression in the slicing market. but honestly, that would be a "good" thing. smuggling is about making money "smuggling", not just enhancing weapons.
i know this deals indirectly with smuggling, but i have noticed a contingent that would also like to see illegal items not be avaiable for purchase off of vendors or bazaars. they fact that they are plays more to the player base than the continuity of the GCW. anything found on the bazaar to be illegal would be immediately confiscated by imperial forces. spices and sliced weapons/armour should not be able to be found at the corner store.
armoursmiths and weaponsmiths will complain that it takes away from their business or increases their cost. that is definitely true. but the combat revamp is going to make us all weaker than we are currently used to being. it is still necessary for continuity and game balance though. that is a minor thing to take away from a Weaponsmith/Smuggler or Armoursmith/Smuggler and throws the business of slicing to those that should have it... smugglers who aren't crafters.
as for spice and slicing tools, it sends people looking for their "pusher". it causes it to feel more like a "habit" because you can start building an actual clientel. we also need experimentation and for resources used to mean something to differentiate our products. just as people will seek out the best weapons and armour, they should also be able to find the best "smuggler".
Excellent. All very good points. I would love to see these put in to action.
And GreenMarine, you are doing a great job.
RE: The rewards for critical missions would be higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash.
What about a "second offer" in place of the first? The pros would be better faction rank, better payout. Cons would be loss of rank, being double-crossed (the second offer contact is a spy for the first contact and means to kill you).
Another idea is freely roaming NPC contacts. After so many successful missions you are add to a NPCs list of choices to jobs. A perma-waypoint is placed in your datapad. Everytime you log in the waypoint is updated to show the NPC's new location. Jobs would be just like normal and critical missions, except the payout would be a tad more lucrative and less dangerous. Getting to a point where a NPC adds you to their green-list would involve doing a series of missions for a faction. 
RellikCro wrote:
I garuntee you if you ran a poll of the amount of player the do PVE vs PVP you would **** **edit** your pants and relize that this game is more for the PVE player. and smuggler is not a PVP proffesion. its a evation proffesion, so lets not even talk about smuggler and PvP it not what needs to be done to make it better. reward is what we need becasue thats all the smuggler cares about. i really thing alot of the ideas here are well. but what i havent sen talked about is Experimentation. we need to devide ourself from one smuggler to the next and adding experimentation into this proffesion is needed. We need smugglers making beter Gold and pixie than others and its all the same. there is no way for one smuggler to identify himself from the other without this. i also think that the smuggler should be allowed to be overt (aka undercover) in either IMP or REB without a recruiter. this would bring a smugglers ability to spy the opotions bases of time and things like that.
Ipseck wrote:
the extremist pve folks are really starting to remind me of the elitist test center crowd (not saying all of tc is elitist). They seem to be acting above pvp.. like its something that's below them because they might get their hands dirty or something. They avoid it because they don't want to expose themselves to the horrors of other players shooting at them. well roll your sleeves up folks. being a smuggler isn't about playing polly prissy pants.
GreenMarine wrote:
See this link for part 1:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=96114
Part 1 reached over 1200 posts in less than a week. Clearly the smuggler & bounty hunter professions care deeply about the design of any kind of smuggling system. I'm really happy with the level of response. A lot of people who don't normally post are chiming in with their opinion and, in general, the discussion has been civil.
I want to try and distill the discussion down and start to find solutions. Here were the three big issues that turned into long discussions.
Summary 1: The key argument was over the impact of "visibility" punishments for ripping off suppliers or failing smuggling missions. There is a portion of the player base that desires PvP and a portion that does not. The main issue is the possibility of "involuntary PvP" or a player gaining a bounty who wants to be a smuggler but not participate in PvP.
Solution: The solution I like most is to have the mission suppliers offer two types of mission for each skill level. The punishments for failing or cheating a mission then become:
- Normal Mission: You lose NPC faction with that supplier. You lose a small amount of GCW faction if the supplier belongs toa faction. You could possibly be ambushed by thugs from that supplier.
- CriticalMission: Harsher versions of the above + you gain visibility.
The rewards for critical missions would be somewhat higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash.
I totally agree with you here GreenMarine. "visibility" should depend on the mission, if its a non-critical mission then failureshould result in the loss of GWC and Faction Standing/Points as well as being hunted by the suppliers goons.
On the other hand Critial Missions should have harsher pentalies for failure upto and encluding PvP depending on the level of the mission. You should also consider placing a warning on crital missions (like we have for backpacks) explaining that failue could result in "involuntary PvP"
What about normal players scanned with illegal items? For now, it seems reasonable that we don't add visibility for normal players. That's too much to ask of the player base as a whole. Later, we could possibly add a level of illegality above Highly Illegal (say, Military Class) that gains visibility. It seems wise to leave this area open for future discuss, but not include it in a revamp.
Summary 2: The second major issue revolved around the punishments for being caught with contraband:
- Some players feel that dying isn't enough of a punishment.
- Some players recommended a faction hit.
- Some players feel that storm troopers are too weak.
- Players don't like that only storm troopers scan.
Solution: The solution obviously has several parts. We need to discuss more what the punishments should be. There are a few types of punishment that we can draw from:
- Loss of GCW faction.
- Loss of NPC faction.
- Combat & risk of death.
- Confiscation of the illegal goods.
One possibility might be to make it so that the scanning NPC isn't the NPC that attacks. Instead he "calls for backup" and the backup is relative to the player's level. This brings up the possibility of a group of players using a low level smuggler to spawn lower level faction targets. Thesolution to stopping faction farming of scan spawned NPCs is to prevent them from giving GCW faction. There are many other legitimate ways to gain faction. Even if it seems inconsistant, it does make somesense that the Rebels aren't necessarily going to reward a player for killing troopers just doing their job.
This also means that high level smugglers would be dealing with security forces tougher than your average Stormtrooper.
It seems that we should make more factions other than Imperial scan. Why can't the Rebels scan in a Rebel controlled territory? They aren't going to like spice abuse much either. Rebel commanders could then have some immunity from scans in their home regions. Naboo's Royal Security Force (a neutral faction) might also scan and have their own forces to deal with violators.
Hmm now this one is very interesting indeed. In my humble opinion failing any scan should result in all of the above. As it stands now scans are nothing but a mild anoyance, give the dog some bite. If you have sliced or illigal contraband it should be conficated right away and the offending player or players if of the same faction be fined FactionPointsand recieve a loss in Rank (the amount of illigal items on their person would determine the amount of FP loss and Rank Loss. If they areof an Opposing Fraction seize the illigal items, then call in reinforcments. If they are nutral sieze the illigal items, have a loss in NPC Fraction and release them. This might seem harsh but this is the Empire not some smack you on the wrist "your a badboy dont do it again"pansyknockoff - lets live up to the Starwars Theme and make this game something special.
I would also suggest that you make droid compartments scanable also - might as well give the dog big teeth.
Summary 3: The third major issue was that smugglers are worried that increased punishments for using illegal items, like spices and sliced gear, will cause a depression in their markets.
Solution: Actually, I disagree with this premise. I don't think there will be a market depression. On the contrary, if I do my job right, there will be a market increase. If spices become reasonably competitive with chef food, or complement chef food in some way, more players will buy them. Similarly, we should be able to modify slicing but also retain its value.
This is an issue I need to think about more before I develop a complete opinion.
I agree with you here also GreenMarine a market depression will not result in fact it should get stronger. If Players loose their sliced goodies and spices to a scan, they will by naturereplace them. Everyone wants the best, be it weapons , armor or whatever. You take my weapons and armor in a seizure hell I'll just replace them. But next time you can bet your bottom credit that I'll have in my employ a Master Smuggler (if I wasnt one already) to get me past those scans and I think my thinking is more or less mainstream to everyone elses.
At this point, we know the arguments from every side in the debate. There have been enough posts for us to understand the views involved. In this thread, let's talk about possible solutions and compromises. Instead of perpetuating the debate on PvP vs. PvE, look for ways that the two views can be reconciled. This is the next key in effective game design for massively multiplayer games.
Well GreenMarine I hope my humble opinions are of some use to you. I must say that you are doing a kickass job so keep up the good work.
-crafting a smuggle bag ( with % of protect for scanning ) for master smuggler
or change underworld tree (1.skillbox 25% protect bag and so on)
only 2 charges , the same for ships then craftable
-increase the scannings for non smuggler ( for what we have over 90% protect ?)and punish more powerful(who has fear from the empire ?)
-scliceable ship parts ( JtL )
-experimentation on spice crafting
-make languages with skillpoints only learnable , then we have a sense more for underworld skilltree ( and more atmosphere )
-make delayshot like before nerf ( maybe with 5 secs than 10 sec )
-make all spice as illegal contraband , maybe alkohol ( brandy too ) or all what is too much to carrying
for example : 100k copper is ok , 200k copper is illegal ( smuggling) or so , so we have more smuggling options
-special smuggel missions with bounty if you failed
-faction smuggle missions ( jabba , lady valarian or so)
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
