Smuggler Archive
Thread: How Our Planned NPC Smuggling System Isn't All That NPC Afterall...
SpinningCloud
Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:37 pm
#27
JTG,
If you're going to call it contraband then put in place game mechanics that treat it differently than legal goods. Otherwise what IS the point of calling it contraband?
JTGAlpha
Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:56 pm
#28
That's fine. Fine me, up my rent, call it "bribes" or the cost of doing business, or call it "sallly" I don't care. But banning it from vendors and cutting my template into ribbons and my playstyle and my character is not cool. There should be penalties, not hard coded mechanics. That's not RP.
Ternque01
Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:20 pm
#29
JTGAlpha wrote:
I disagree. I think banning spices from vendors will limit our abillity to grow the market through cooperation and creativity. If it'swhat I have to smuggle then I want to be able to cultivate that market. I think it will simply relegate us to nickel and dime spice sales or occasional custom orders. Now if that's what you want, great, but PLEASE remember not all of us want to be freighter tramps a la Han Solo. Some of us want to be BIG time criminals like Talon Karde. I think the idea of removing spice from vendors does nothing but cut off options and playstyles. I completely agree, BUT I would be completely offended if smugglers are reduced to having to operate from vendors in order to sell their product. This would piss me off severely. It would be a limitation banning it from vendors, but if you are going to drivea car, you can't shower at the same time or read a book. Limitations are here to have fun with, and banning spices from vendors is not only continuitous, but preserves a player needing to approach a smuggler for a smuggling job....
And again, you are operating on the large assumption that players will WANT spice enough to PAY us to get it for them. Which they might not. Again, I push this point away time and time again. It is not a factor I haven't considered, but it is not the focus of this thread. If spices aren't valuable there will be NO player-to-smuggler interactions going on at all. I get it. You don't have to repeat
Ternque01
Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:23 pm
#30
Orcajum wrote:
I think there are several ways to make this into a more immersive environment. This all stems from Spices (or anything else we're contracted to Smuggle) being preceived as valuable to the playerbase.
Obviously removing spices from the vendor system and treating them like a true blackmarket property would give us more interaction with players.
If you don't want an outright elimination of Spices from vendors, however, there are a few other solutions. First of all, I'm working under the assumption that there will be more spices available than just Muon and Pixie. If we still have an assortment of spices available, and ALL of them are usefull (as opposed to their current standing) it makes it tougher to "stock up" a vendor. You'd have to steal the cargo for 10 different spices, than just loading up on 2 types.
I also think, if our contacts offer randomized missions (instead of the same mission from the same contact) we'll be in the business of scouring the galaxy for the right contact offering the right mission at the right time. If say, each spice/resource/smuggled item's starting Contact is randomized every 2 or 3 hours, you could still find what your PC client wants, yet would be forced to spend 5 or 6x as long to stock a vendor then just stealing a handful of shipments. We, in turn, would be charging a few thousand credit deposit just to search out what our PC customer wanted. This would be too troublesome to make vendor stocking easy, yet it would still be possible.
The fear, is that we become a FOTM. If Smuggled goods (spices, resources, etc) start earning a huge profit with very little effort involved, everyone will be picking up a "smuggler" alt to stock their other characters. It would be like those who have a personalized Doc alt just so they don't have to wait in line for buffs or rezing. And we proud Smugglers will still be uninvolved within the greater game.
Wow, what a truly wonderful contribution to the thinking done about this stuff.
Orcajum
Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:33 pm
#31
Ternque01 wrote:
Wow, what a truly wonderful contribution to the thinking done about this stuff.
I have my moments (few and far between, so i've been saving up
)
JTGAlpha
Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:58 pm
#32
I completely agree, BUT I would be completely offended if smugglers are reduced to having to operate from vendors in order to sell their product. This would piss me off severely. It would be a limitation banning it from vendors, but if you are going to drivea car, you can't shower at the same time or read a book. Limitations are here to have fun with, and banning spices from vendors is not only continuitous, but preserves a player needing to approach a smuggler for a smuggling job....
How could you be FORCED to operate from a vendor? (and what do you mean reduced? I like being a merchant thanks very much...there's a whole profession of us, you know 
) Trust me, the x factor of mission difficulty vs. payout not withstanding, I KNOW how much trouble it's going to be as is keeping stocked. Only smugglers who are well connected (like me) will really be able to pull the vendor thing off (by buying from you and him and her and him and her and selling for whatever profit the market will bear because I can sell in bulk). Or running missions until your eyes bleed, which I suppose people could and would do but I'm hoping that'd be few and far between (again depending on the difficulty vs. payout factor). And smugglers would still be needed for a smuggling job. MERCHANTS would hire us! They want to sell spice. They want to sell it in bulk. They hire us to GET them spice to keep their vendors stocked. Simple. That makes us smugglers, not drug dealers, because make no mistake what you guys are talking about is sitting around the cantina all day selling dime bags. You take away spice from vendors then we're NOT smugglers. We're pushers and drug dealers. Which is EXACTLY what a lot of you don't want to be.
) Trust me, the x factor of mission difficulty vs. payout not withstanding, I KNOW how much trouble it's going to be as is keeping stocked. Only smugglers who are well connected (like me) will really be able to pull the vendor thing off (by buying from you and him and her and him and her and selling for whatever profit the market will bear because I can sell in bulk). Or running missions until your eyes bleed, which I suppose people could and would do but I'm hoping that'd be few and far between (again depending on the difficulty vs. payout factor). And smugglers would still be needed for a smuggling job. MERCHANTS would hire us! They want to sell spice. They want to sell it in bulk. They hire us to GET them spice to keep their vendors stocked. Simple. That makes us smugglers, not drug dealers, because make no mistake what you guys are talking about is sitting around the cantina all day selling dime bags. You take away spice from vendors then we're NOT smugglers. We're pushers and drug dealers. Which is EXACTLY what a lot of you don't want to be. And how is selling my spice from a storefront analgous to driving a car in the shower? It's not like I'm asking to shoot guns while playing the fizz. I'm asking to KEEP the abillity to be BETTER at selling spices. And it is NOT against continuity to do so. It's an under the counter deal. I have a "legitimate" shop that sells illegal things. I WISH there were mechanics that would enable and require me to hide my contraband and make my customers say the password or secret handshake or whatever. But there aren't. I'd welcome them. I've been asking for them. But they aren't there. So I lack the necessary mechanics and dressing to be a false storefront and keep my business.
SpinningCloud
Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:02 pm
#33
Like I've said numerous times I have NO problem with contraband on vendors IF there is a serious risk of being caught AND a serious consequence.
Until both those are present then I'm dead set against it because it just plain and simply removes the idea that they are illegal.
JTGAlpha
Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:05 pm
#34
And like I said, if you take spices off the vendors then YOU will be selling them a crate at a time in the cantina, not delivering them to people who'll sell it, like other smugglers and merchants, making you a street pusher selling dime bags not a smuggler.
WesBelden
Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:14 pm
#35
Ternque01 wrote:
*Dodges the myriad of stones flying his way*
What do we REALLY want???
1. Make a verbal contract with another player needing smugging.
2. Actually SMUGGLE the goods.
3. Encounter some fun resistance through the law/BH's that requires our slick skills.
4. Delivery of that item DIRECTLY to our customer where we get PAID.
I don't mean to pick anything OBVIOUS out to you guys and gals, but this is what is going to occur with this "lame" NPC smuggling system. You aren't going to have smugglers making factory runs of spice... that stuff will need to be obtained with blood, sweat, and tears. You can bet that if a player needs some they will in alot of cases have to talk directly to a smuggler to get it; that smuggler is you.
Isn't this really the exact type of interaction we really desired in the first damn place?
Assuming that the developers make spice rare enough to keep from infiltrating vendors, you as a smuggler WILL finally get to fill some smuggling orders for other damn players. Ban the stuff from vendors and you will get your player smuggling. Keep it on them and you will only fill orders by stocking a vendor and making the chance for REAL player-to-smuggler deals from ever happening.
Something to think about...
I completely agree with this; I've suggested that if possible, players be able to place an order with NPC contractors (or in essence, register a desire for something) that would then be included in Smuggler missions in the form of the third party offering to buy the Spice off you for a greater price at the cost of a grudge point. However, with or without this (I'm guessing it'll be considered feature creep and not done during these changes at least) we do essentially have the basis for a Smuggling system to players.
Whether that turns into a "WTB x!" fest in Theed and Coronetremains tobe seen.
SpinningCloud
Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:17 pm
#36
JTG,
I'll just make a deal with a player to 'smuggle' spice for him, go get the contract and bring the spice to my buyer.
I really doubt I'll gather a bunch of spice and hawk it in front of the starport. Personally I think that's lame.
riotcontrol
Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:01 pm
#38
WesBelden wrote:Whether that turns into a "WTB x!" fest in Theed and Coronet remains to be seen.
Doesn't everything involving any kind of item exchange turn into that eventually?
Ternque01
Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:50 pm
#39
riotcontrol wrote:
WesBelden wrote:
Whether that turns into a "WTB x!" fest in Theed and Coronet remains to be seen.
Doesn't everything involving any kind of item exchange turn into that eventually?
AXOB FREELIGHT!!! GOOD MAN!!!! SENSE OF HUMOR!!!! LIKES THE OUTDOORS AND GOING TO MOVIES!!!! OFFERING 1 MILLION FOR DATE WITH A SHIM!!!!
No, seriously this issue about vendors needs to be thought about. I'd get a reply to you JTG, but I'm slap out of being able to respond at the moment (this might have to do with drinking, or insanity, or both - no guarantees however )