Smuggler Archive
Thread: here's an idea what do u guys think
MOD123
Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:48 am
#27
Kruge99 wrote:This is a FANTASTIC idea... and I have something USEFUL to add here... in JTL, they can help co-pilot the ship or man the turrets...Sounds like an idea, now all we need is a plan!!Kruge99.
I have to play devil's advocate is a few problems with henchmen:
(1) Increase in server lag
(2) Overcrowding of spaceports...cantina (think of all those entertainers)
(3) Although having a henchmen to help out in JTLS would be cool. Maybe it should be limited as co-pilot, because after all they want us to work with other players in the game and not NPC's. Imagine if other non-smugs could hire NPC "henchmen" smugs to slice their goods for them and make their spices for them.
(*shudders* what a horrible thought)
Uhura E.
a Bloodfin Master Smug
snuggler
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:07 pm
#28
Liked this idea when I first read it...posted here...happy to see there is still interest because I agree that it could be very cool and not alot of work for devs.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=39323
I'd like to be able to be groupedinvisibly with my thug. So I could be sitting in a cantina and my thug will help me take out that BH or ST scanning party whenthey come looking for me...or at least distract him enough so I can get away.
JWalker Black
MOD123
Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:39 pm
#29
CorellianCowboy wrote:
I hate to be the odd man out, but I do not like this idea.
Why?
Because nothing about this idea reaches out to me and says, "This is something a smuggler would do."
A crimelord, certainly.. but we aren't the mafia. We're the guys working for the mafia to get all the illegal stuff they buy past customs. We skills related to the underworld, but we are not gang leaders.
I think despite it all it would be nice to have the option. And why can't we be the mafia, we're the closest thing to a criminal. What we produce is "illegal" and those who use them can be fined for them.
I think some smugs should branch out and form criminal organizations...like the mafia, triads, and yakuza of today. I'm against the idea of a "union" that encompasses all smugs, but for PA's or smugs that form their own criminal branches.
And there is of course solo players (like myself) who are in it for themselves and the credits alone.
Just my opinion.
Uhura E.
a Bloodfin Master Smug
MOD123
Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:50 pm
#30
Novock wrote:Aceptyour argument regarding JTL, good thought in using them on ship but yes I think thats a strecth.regarding lag issues wouldn't that apply to evryone now. How about the droids and creatures running around. Should we take away the merchants barker droids, doctors buff droids, creature handlers pets overts ability to have a soldier or even an at-st, I mean they would create the same lag issues as having a thug walk around with a smuggler. Not really sure that there are that many smugglers out there to cause that huge of a lag issues. All basically this would be is giving the smuggler the ability to have a soldier equivalent pet out and not be overt or even faction sided for that matter.Thisis something that is already in game and would need fairly minor coding changes to throw smugglers a bone. I still think it would be a good idea and a plausable gift for the smuggler until our smuggler revamp in year 2016. But to each person is there own opinion.This idea is a true longshot idea anyway. We already know that our correspondent is against the idea, andI have no doubt that it will not be on his suggestion list to the devs (or atleast without an astrick that says bad idea)so the only chance we really have of devs considering it would be for them to read it here in the forums. And we all know how often they stop by the smuggler forum. Longshot as it is I still like the idea. I think it fits the StarWars mold. Han and Chewy obviously the pattern but even Lando in the the Empire Strikes Back has his own security thugs. What I believe we need is a more Starwars feel, having unarmed skills in the profession doesn't make sense. It was a pistol under the table in the cantina... Han wasn't holding a VK in case stuff got bad.We have one of the mostbroken professions in the game at current. We don't smuggle, we can't fight without pistoleer skill mods, we have no defense, we have no advantage other than a blackrot feign death in PVP... of yeah i forgot our all powerful detonation droid which is not even a smuggler only item its a BH item that we got tagged on to.. We are more of a crafting profession than any kind of dangerous renegade smuggler.Look at what we do, we can make spice, though its value has extensivley went down with improvements to chef, we can slice, and we can sell faction points. yea isn't that what Han was doing.. make spice... running around by himself.... standing in a starport yelling slicing you're guns (he didn't seems like much of a slicer on that door in Return of the Jedi...)Think about, a smuggler in the star wars galaxy was the skills we have would not last a day, it would be nice to have a 8 foot wookie to help atleast give the image that we can hold our own. ok my rant is done...NovockTriple Master (Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA)"... as he placed his helmet on he remembered his call of duty to the empire and the oath he has taken as a storm trooper. Dressed in white ready forfor a fight he reaches to grab his powerful..... stun baton.... dult" What game are we playing again?
...nice rant.
Here's mine.
Okay I have held my tongue about the smuggler being a broken profession and not really "a smuggler" at all. We're more like: spice making/slicing criminals (and not really even good at that). The devs have pushed back the revamp (and possibly clipped the idea of slicing ships parts in JTLS all together...I hope not).
But quite frankly I love being a smug, it was my first holo and I stuck with it (who needs the jedi mumbo jumbo fooey anyways). I wouldn't have it any other way. If I get bored I try some new profession (I just dropped TKM last night and working for Master Weaponsmith) or play another character on another server.
I think the henchman idea is a damn good one and should be exclusive to the smug. It may not happen but it should be looked into.
"The lag issue" is something I believe the devs may throw back at us but if having 1 or more henchmen wouldn't make a difference all the better. My knowledge of server traffic being effected my NPC's is very limited.
(I'm wrapping it up now)
All in all Uhura is always going to be a Master Smug even if JTLS and the revapm shafts us. It is who she is. It's served me well and despite the rants about being a smug, I say quit...try some other profession...and hand your knives, clamps, and customers over to me.
(*takes deep breath and
*)Uhura E.
a Bloodfin Master Smug
Novock
Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:10 pm
#31
I agree a smuggler is a smuggler. I'm a smuggler sense I started in January. I Mastered Smuggler then Pistoleer. Toyed around with my other skill points for a bit before finally going master TKA. Smuggler is the profession I like and it is my profession everything else to simply to give me ability. And to those who said something about a mafia, I still don't see how having a sidekick would make us a mafia, was Han a mafia?No he worked for the mafia...did he have a sidekick... surely you guys didn't miss that big furry guy sittingon the left of teh screen. Do you think the wookie was there simplyh to play crads or for his way with words. No he was there to help Han in many ways including watching his back. The whole point behind it was the role play is endless. You can have the npc pet to be a sidekick, or you can call him a henchmen, or he can be a body guard whatever. Nobody is saying you would have to call it a henchman and go around like Al Capone but anybody who thinks a smuggler is not a criminial is not being honest with the profession. And if you wanted to walk around like Al Capone I thought that was the whole point of "live the best StarWars adventure... your own."Thats why we have an underworld tree....... we are the criminal underworld...scoundrals.... mercanaries... dry runners what ever you want to call us but the fact remains we do what others won't because it's to dangerous, ilegal or because it soothes our desire for danger. Our profession should resemble that and right now it doesn't and I don't think it would take much to give it a more smuggler feel while we wait for a mission content. This was just one idea maybe better ideas will come forward but hopefully they will give us something. Maybe even let us deal in some thrown explosives I don't want to take away from commando but what about a flash grenade that emits an enrgy blast and has a AOE pause (panic/warcry) effect to allow us to escape. I love this community and even those who I disagree with I'm still right there with you.
MOD123
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:16 pm
#32
Novock wrote:I agree a smuggler is a smuggler. I'm a smuggler sense I started in January. I Mastered Smuggler then Pistoleer. Toyed around with my other skill points for a bit before finally going master TKA. Smuggler is the profession I like and it is my profession everything else to simply to give me ability. And to those who said something about a mafia, I still don't see how having a sidekick would make us a mafia, was Han a mafia?No he worked for the mafia...did he have a sidekick... surely you guys didn't miss that big furry guy sittingon the left of teh screen. Do you think the wookie was there simplyh to play crads or for his way with words. No he was there to help Han in many ways including watching his back. The whole point behind it was the role play is endless. You can have the npc pet to be a sidekick, or you can call him a henchmen, or he can be a body guard whatever. Nobody is saying you would have to call it a henchman and go around like Al Capone but anybody who thinks a smuggler is not a criminial is not being honest with the profession. And if you wanted to walk around like Al Capone I thought that was the whole point of "live the best StarWars adventure... your own."Thats why we have an underworld tree....... we are the criminal underworld...scoundrals.... mercanaries... dry runners what ever you want to call us but the fact remains we do what others won't because it's to dangerous, ilegal or because it soothes our desire for danger. Our profession should resemble that and right now it doesn't and I don't think it would take much to give it a more smuggler feel while we wait for a mission content. This was just one idea maybe better ideas will come forward but hopefully they will give us something. Maybe even let us deal in some thrown explosives I don't want to take away from commando but what about a flash grenade that emits an enrgy blast and has a AOE pause (panic/warcry) effect to allow us to escape. I love this community and even those who I disagree with I'm still right there with you.
Nice followup I can't disagree with it. I guess those who stick it out and wait for JTLS and the revamp will reap the rewards of their patience. Been a smug for months now and love it...to be honest TKM supplemented most of my income (mokks and jantas and whatever ohhh my!!).
I feel SWG has a lot of potential despite it all. JTLS will bring in a lot of traffic and SOE has to decide if it wants to keep up with demands and fullfil all the promises it makes. So far overall I'm not disapointed with SWG or being a Smug (well spice making/slicing criminal).
Much love to all my smugs masters and novices a like. But if any of you decide to leave the profession and you're on Bloodfin. Forward your customers to good ol' Uhura she'll take care of 'em for ya.
Uhura E.
a master smuggler on bloodfin just looking for a little love and a mountain of credits.
CorellianCowboy
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:58 pm
#33
First off, a wookie swearing a life debt to Han Solo should not form the basis of a feature we should add to the Smuggler profession.
Secondly, no one has ever said we aren't criminals. We break the law. It's what we do. But we do it by smuggling. The reason I'm against this is because this and other ideas like this can cause focus to shift away from what we all really want in our revamp: smuggling. We'll run guns, we'll haul spice, we'll slip in and out past customs; and for those of you like me, we'll look good doing it.
A lot of people have expressed concerns on what could potentially go bad with the revamp; losing focus on smuggling is about as bad as it could potentially get. If that happens, then all we'll be is thugs with blasters. Well I don't know about you, but I didn't sign up to be some street thug. I'm a smuggler.
Secondly, no one has ever said we aren't criminals. We break the law. It's what we do. But we do it by smuggling. The reason I'm against this is because this and other ideas like this can cause focus to shift away from what we all really want in our revamp: smuggling. We'll run guns, we'll haul spice, we'll slip in and out past customs; and for those of you like me, we'll look good doing it.
A lot of people have expressed concerns on what could potentially go bad with the revamp; losing focus on smuggling is about as bad as it could potentially get. If that happens, then all we'll be is thugs with blasters. Well I don't know about you, but I didn't sign up to be some street thug. I'm a smuggler.
Novock
Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:41 pm
#34
My goodness man u think smugglers ran completely solo with no one helping watch their back. And do you really think that we want this idea instead of smuggling? This is a piece of the smuggler vision. Of course we want to smuggle we also want some more smuggler combat equipment (unarmed moves maybe a smuggler ehanced pistol or simply a smuggler pistol) maybe a little speed and accuracy for pistol. If you don't want a sidekick even if they gave us the option no one said you had to have . Why insist on spoiling everyone else's fun. Anyway I guess we'll just disagree on this one.
Novock
"...who was that... is someone there. Man I'll be glad when I get this shipment to dock, this silence is killing me. OH crud.. who's going to unload all this anyway."
CorellianCowboy
Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:40 pm
#35
1) No, I don't think that every smuggler went around solo; but they certainly didn't run around the streets with a bunch of thugs like 1930's gangster.
2) No, I don't think you want this instead of smuggling, at least not in the case of the majority. What I don't think you realize is that it is possible to add too much to a profession. Something like this could potentially be seen as overbalancing if coupled with the changes we all want and expect in our revamp and might mean that we lose something else we could have otherwise gained.
3.a) I don't see a valid reason why we should have henchmen just because we're smugglers. Yeah smugglers have people to watch their back, but so do commandos. And squad leaders. Where are their NPCs? If they want backup, they do the same things we do: get support from the Rebellion or Empire, buy a pet, buy a droid, or get some friends to come along.
3.b) As I've already said, I don't see any reason that suggests smugglers have any more of a right to hire NPCs than any other profession. This doesn't mean I'm completely against hiring NPCs, I just don't see why it'd be something added to smugglers and not to the game at large. If they reworked the non-GCW faction system, this could be done fairly smoothly, in my opinion. If NPC factional bases/headquarters were updated where they exist and added where they don't, it'd be feasible for someone who has good standing with CorSec to ask for an escort. Someone who is in good with Jabba could ask for a few thugs to help him out. You get the idea. This could be handled by NPC liasons, who would function a lot like recruiters, except they wouldn't allow you to actually join CorSec/Desilijic kadijic (Jabba's organization)/The Meatlumps/etc.
Hope this post helps clarify why I'm against adding the hiring of henchmen as a smuggler ability.
2) No, I don't think you want this instead of smuggling, at least not in the case of the majority. What I don't think you realize is that it is possible to add too much to a profession. Something like this could potentially be seen as overbalancing if coupled with the changes we all want and expect in our revamp and might mean that we lose something else we could have otherwise gained.
3.a) I don't see a valid reason why we should have henchmen just because we're smugglers. Yeah smugglers have people to watch their back, but so do commandos. And squad leaders. Where are their NPCs? If they want backup, they do the same things we do: get support from the Rebellion or Empire, buy a pet, buy a droid, or get some friends to come along.
3.b) As I've already said, I don't see any reason that suggests smugglers have any more of a right to hire NPCs than any other profession. This doesn't mean I'm completely against hiring NPCs, I just don't see why it'd be something added to smugglers and not to the game at large. If they reworked the non-GCW faction system, this could be done fairly smoothly, in my opinion. If NPC factional bases/headquarters were updated where they exist and added where they don't, it'd be feasible for someone who has good standing with CorSec to ask for an escort. Someone who is in good with Jabba could ask for a few thugs to help him out. You get the idea. This could be handled by NPC liasons, who would function a lot like recruiters, except they wouldn't allow you to actually join CorSec/Desilijic kadijic (Jabba's organization)/The Meatlumps/etc.
Hope this post helps clarify why I'm against adding the hiring of henchmen as a smuggler ability.
Novock
Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:26 am
#36
Aceptyour argument regarding JTL, good thought in using them on ship but yes I think thats a strecth.regarding lag issues wouldn't that apply to evryone now. How about the droids and creatures running around. Should we take away the merchants barker droids, doctors buff droids, creature handlers pets overts ability to have a soldier or even an at-st, I mean they would create the same lag issues as having a thug walk around with a smuggler. Not really sure that there are that many smugglers out there to cause that huge of a lag issues. All basically this would be is giving the smuggler the ability to have a soldier equivalent pet out and not be overt or even faction sided for that matter.
Thisis something that is already in game and would need fairly minor coding changes to throw smugglers a bone. I still think it would be a good idea and a plausable gift for the smuggler until our smuggler revamp in year 2016. But to each person is there own opinion.
This idea is a true longshot idea anyway. We already know that our correspondent is against the idea, andI have no doubt that it will not be on his suggestion list to the devs (or atleast without an astrick that says bad idea)so the only chance we really have of devs considering it would be for them to read it here in the forums. And we all know how often they stop by the smuggler forum. Longshot as it is I still like the idea. I think it fits the StarWars mold. Han and Chewy obviously the pattern but even Lando in the the Empire Strikes Back has his own security thugs. What I believe we need is a more Starwars feel, having unarmed skills in the profession doesn't make sense. It was a pistol under the table in the cantina... Han wasn't holding a VK in case stuff got bad.
We have one of the mostbroken professions in the game at current. We don't smuggle, we can't fight without pistoleer skill mods, we have no defense, we have no advantage other than a blackrot feign death in PVP... of yeah i forgot our all powerful detonation droid which is not even a smuggler only item its a BH item that we got tagged on to.. We are more of a crafting profession than any kind of dangerous renegade smuggler.Look at what we do, we can make spice, though its value has extensivley went down with improvements to chef, we can slice, and we can sell faction points. yea isn't that what Han was doing.. make spice... running around by himself.... standing in a starport yelling slicing you're guns (he didn't seems like much of a slicer on that door in Return of the Jedi...)
Think about, a smuggler in the star wars galaxy was the skills we have would not last a day, it would be nice to have a 8 foot wookie to help atleast give the image that we can hold our own. ok my rant is done...
Novock
Triple Master (Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA)
"... as he placed his helmet on he remembered his call of duty to the empire and the oath he has taken as a storm trooper. Dressed in white ready forfor a fight he reaches to grab his powerful..... stun baton.... dult" What game are we playing again?
Novock
Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:21 am
#37
Dude you still haven't convinced me. Anyone who faction aligned can have exactly what we are asking for here. The only difference is you have to be overt. We are simply looking at a perk to give us that we don't have to be overt to a have a soldier pet.
As afr as commandos yes they would have others watching their back but they are the soldier. They work with other soldiers opn the battlefield not exactly the same. Arguing apples to oranges. As for squad leader I actually believe they should be able to command a small group of npc soldiers or droids.... besides whats your point. I'm not a squad leader. I'm not talking about what a squad leader should or shouldn't have we're talking about a smuggler.
I still stand by my idea still believe its a good idea. Don't think giving us a soldier pet is going to throw anything off balance. In a PVP fight they would be dead in two shots so that argument seems a bit far fetched for me, but it seems like something you would say for my bet earlier was that you were no a PVPer or you would already know that. Again I think the smugglers should look more like a smuggler and I disagree to the largest extent possible that just because a smuggler has a bodyguard that makes him a mafia. Why do people always argue from extremes... "No, I don't think that every smuggler went around solo; but they certainly didn't run around the streets with a bunch of thugs like 1930's gangster." ....some guys on here thought it would be cool to roleplay using the NPC pet as a henchmen but that doesn't mean that then everybody is going to walk around like Al Capone... but if you wanted to who says you can't. Matter fact isn't that what Al Capone did.... LOL... he smuggled.... he smuggled bootleg liquor. Anyway several people wanted to make him a wookie that they might have a there own han and chewy team. Others like me wanted wanted one as a bodyguard and thought it would be a nice touch. The thing of it is the roleplay allows you to be the smuggler you want to be, the hard thug criminal, the mercaanry type, the lone guman, the dynamic duo so on and so on.But you would rather force everyone to your cookie cutter version of a smuggler. Oh well this argument is lost on you anyway. You have already made up your mind you don't want itso no matter what anybody says you are going to argue how an architect has three toes on his left foot and 4 toes on his right and so we can't have 5 toes or the weaponsmith might have 2 fingers....
Anyway the profession needs smuggling missions but it needs more than smuggling missions.And your post only makes me want to yell louder for that which I think we need.
CorellianCowboy
Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:30 am
#38
You're missing the point entirely.
If you'd read my last post, you'd have seen that if NPC henchmen were added in the way I suggested, then everyone who has possitive faction with a non-GCW NPC group would be enable to enlist their help. This would allow you to have your thugs, bodyguards, and henchmen if you wanted them; just get in good with Jabba or some other group.
As for my statement about commandos and squad leaders, again, you entirely missed my point. It's not about whether or not they should get NPCs too, it's about the fact that we don't deserve them anymore than they do, or bounty hunters for that matter.. they're a lot more mercenary than smugglers. The point isn't that they deserve it more than we do and thus they should get it instead, the point is that if something like this is implemented it should be open to more than just smugglers. Think about it, what makes more sense: "These guys are looking out for me because I'm a smuggler" or "These guys are looking out for me because their boss likes me." I think anyone being honest with himself is going to go with the second.
As for their use in PvP, yes, I know that they'd be killed very quickly. But anyone who's been following these boards for any length of time has seen how quick certain groups are to call for a nerf. As to whether or not I PvP, I do occassionally, but I refuse to get involved in the majority of the duels I see going on today. The ridiculous levels that buffs and armor have risen to has made PvP in this game almost laughable.
Besides what I've stated above, I for one do not espouse the "throw us a bone mentality." I'm sick of bones, I want some meat.
If you'd read my last post, you'd have seen that if NPC henchmen were added in the way I suggested, then everyone who has possitive faction with a non-GCW NPC group would be enable to enlist their help. This would allow you to have your thugs, bodyguards, and henchmen if you wanted them; just get in good with Jabba or some other group.
As for my statement about commandos and squad leaders, again, you entirely missed my point. It's not about whether or not they should get NPCs too, it's about the fact that we don't deserve them anymore than they do, or bounty hunters for that matter.. they're a lot more mercenary than smugglers. The point isn't that they deserve it more than we do and thus they should get it instead, the point is that if something like this is implemented it should be open to more than just smugglers. Think about it, what makes more sense: "These guys are looking out for me because I'm a smuggler" or "These guys are looking out for me because their boss likes me." I think anyone being honest with himself is going to go with the second.
As for their use in PvP, yes, I know that they'd be killed very quickly. But anyone who's been following these boards for any length of time has seen how quick certain groups are to call for a nerf. As to whether or not I PvP, I do occassionally, but I refuse to get involved in the majority of the duels I see going on today. The ridiculous levels that buffs and armor have risen to has made PvP in this game almost laughable.
Besides what I've stated above, I for one do not espouse the "throw us a bone mentality." I'm sick of bones, I want some meat.
Novock
Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:13 am
#39
No for the ability to recruit would be found in the underwolrd skill tree so not everyone would be able to recruit a npc pet, obviously haven't read the entirity of this post. You entirely miss the point, this is not the Commando or Squad leader forum. You can't compare the professions it doesn't work that way. A commando has no need for a npc pet they have all the firepower they could use, what they need is defense and possibly some more accuracy. They have a forum and they have community and they have the ability to ask and debate what would be good for their profession. Your assertion that they deserve an npc pet just as much as we do is an opinion base argument and tries to assert that the profession in current state are equal which I do not believe is correct. Squad leader is so broke it shouldn't be in the discussion it needs an entire rework as well. But sense you brought it up they have discussed giving squad leaders the ability to control multiple npc soldiers and it has been kicked around to allow squad leaders to control battle droids and even discussed to allow them the ability to control an AT-AT when they are brought in the game. I guess I could go over there with your argument and say they shouldn't be able to get that because a commando deserves as well (SIGH). We can go on and on with your argument, you know what pistoler shouldn't get anymore accuracy because carbineers need it aswell and deserve it just as much.... do you really want to continue to argue back and forth of the basis of what we think other professions desreve or don't desrve in order to establish what the smuggler profession could use?
As for wanting meat verses bones. Already stated we are not getting meat for a long time, already stated we are getting bones. They are going to try to give a few changes to each profession before the combat revamp. Smuggler revamp is not until after the combat revamp and thats not going to change by refusing to accept a bone when they are offering. So we are to say hey don't give us anything right now we'll wait to 2016 for our revamp... not me. I want whatever i can squeeze out of them right now.