Smuggler Archive
Thread: Interesting comment
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Mystique2000uk
Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:04 am
#27
I wonder if we could hire a ranger to steal the cargo back from them.
Ezekeal wrote:
hmm, very interesting indeed. allow me to run a hyperthetical scenario by you smugglers:
smuggler 'I-B pegleg' is carring a load of spices intended for jabba, somewhere else. on his travels he passes through bestine. while some helpless level 13 noob is distacting the imperial troops at the gate to the starport he heads in.
inside however is ranger xXxjames bondxXx, who steals I-B pegleg's cargo. what happens then? Is our hero I-B out of luck, or can he retaliate (/tell xXxjames concussionshot ftw, noob!)? can he hire a bountyhunter (/tt I'll get my main!one!1), or will he meet the wrath of fettclone pwnzjoo the resident bounty hunter?
I am hoping, the fettclone pwnzjoo gets to kill them both, and letthe maker sort them out...
but, this opens up alot of interesting possibilities.
oh, and.. happy ITLP day all, arr!
VegitoX
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:04 am
#28
Aendracon wrote:
As for the whole capture the flag thing, I don´t know.Why are rangers getting stealth/demolition skills, that should be inherent commando skills? That said, why would anyone hire a Ranger to get spices from a Smuggler? Shouldn´t it be part of the BH´s job to catch the thief and return the stolen property to the crimelord? If so, will Rangers be hunted by BHs instead of Smugglers?
IMO, it would be a very good idea to implement the Smuggler/BH relation before introducing the Rangers to it, when "it" isn´t really there yet.
Bear with me, it's an imaginative stretch but:
During this time period the Empire owns just about all of the means/rights to produce and sell spice.
Therefore as Smugglers, we are taking credits out of the Empire'spockets by carrying these illegal products to the very sources that wish to sell the contraband under the table...tax free.
On the Rebellion side, well they need credits to finance the war...they wouldn't be adverse to sending in their spec opsagent/unit tohijack shipment of spice, toeither sell or to trade for weapons.
Bounty Hunters are not sentout to collectcargo, at the point when a Bounty Hunter is called in; the supplier has most likely already determined that the Smuggler in question has either lost or stolen the shipment anyway.
SmugglinZane
Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:13 pm
#29
Halorin0009 wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
3. WHY THE HELL CAN'T WE GET A REVAMP?!?!?!?! Seriously, they "don't" want to focus onlarge scale profession revamps, yet others are getting them. Once again, the rule that is applied to us, is never applied to the rest of the game. Wes, this IS a question that needs to get answered at this point. They've now brought theft into the game. Having a smuggling system SHOULD not be that far off. Better yet, they say PvP theft is supported, so PfP smuggling SHOULD now be supported (at least in the minds of the team).
You aren't the only one mad. But getting an answer to this question isn't all that relevant or important. It seems all you're looking for is for the devs to admit that they haven't released the Smuggler revamp yet. That's time and energy I'd rather them spend on actually getting the revamp out. If you ask me, this Ranger revamp is in part a revamp for the Smugglers because it's setting up a characteristic of smuggling and its perils.
Actually no, I wanna know why the hell can't we get a revamp. We get told profession development (all professions since Jedi got told it to when asking about FRS) then they drop all these profession revamps on us. Then they tell us we won'te ever get a revamp, but gradual development.
I wanna know why we get the shaft, again, while others see the fruition of the same thing we've been asking for for ages.
Simply put, we deserve our turn already. Do I want them to tell me they screwed up? Not unless it's accompanied by a revamp. I know where their problems lay. I know where they have screwed up. I want it corrected. I want just compensation. I want what's been coming to us for a long time. If they can't give that, then they better have a damn good explanation why we can't get what other professions have gotten... again!
CuchulainnDarklight
Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:20 pm
#30
SmugglinZane wrote:
Stealing, no not really. Unless it's stealing an identity or the key/code to something we have to get past... but we have slicing for that if it were ever implemented properly.
What's troubling is 2 fold:
1. They're still only talking about really smuggling spice.
2. They're talking about us being content for Rangers. I have no problem being content for another profession, but give it a better reasoning than stealing spice from me. Make em take missions to interrupt me smuggling for someone's rival. Make it something worthwhile, not just "as part of the new smuggling missions, Rangers can steal spice from Smugglers running said missions".
On point 1 - Do you really expect them to list EVERY thing they think they may let you smuggle, at least it shows that things are moving in this direction.
On point 2 - go read what the Dev said again. A smuggler decides to smuggle something for someone (thats taking a mission, content in other words). Smuggling content would be pretty boring if no-one ever tried to stop you smuggling would it? Plus, by the time the Rnager mission terminal downloaded you would have already delivered your contraband!
EDIT - and if you are still confused as to why Rangers are being changed from a fantasy Ranger to the type of Ranger that exists in Star Wars canon, there is a sticky in the Ranger forum now that should explain that for you!
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 09-19-2005 04:25 PM
SmugglinZane
Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:17 pm
#31
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
Stealing, no not really. Unless it's stealing an identity or the key/code to something we have to get past... but we have slicing for that if it were ever implemented properly.
What's troubling is 2 fold:
1. They're still only talking about really smuggling spice.
2. They're talking about us being content for Rangers. I have no problem being content for another profession, but give it a better reasoning than stealing spice from me. Make em take missions to interrupt me smuggling for someone's rival. Make it something worthwhile, not just "as part of the new smuggling missions, Rangers can steal spice from Smugglers running said missions".
On point 1 - Do you really expect them to list EVERY thing they think they may let you smuggle, at least it shows that things are moving in this direction.
On point 2 - go read what the Dev said again. A smuggler decides to smuggle something for someone (thats taking a mission, content in other words). Smuggling content would be pretty boring if no-one ever tried to stop you smuggling would it? Plus, by the time the Rnager mission terminal downloaded you would have already delivered your contraband!
EDIT - and if you are still confused as to why Rangers are being changed from a fantasy Ranger to the type of Ranger that exists in Star Wars canon, there is a sticky in the Ranger forum now that should explain that for you!
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 09-19-200504:25 PM
Ok, first let me say that I have yet to state any confusion as to whythe style of Ranger is being changed.
This being the Smuggler forums, I related it to what it means or could mean to us. Now that we have the Ranger/Smuggler BS out of the way, I'll break it down for you, since you seem a little confused about the history of this profession.
Point 1. The only thing EVER mentioned, except for by GM, that we could smuggle would be spice. The dev team has continually resisted a contraband system, and have taken a direction of smuggling being the way to procure spice. That's not what smuggling is, and it should disturb all of us that they still continue to limit the discussion to spice. I don't expect them to list everything, but I do expect them to cease pigeon holing us into smuggling only spice. At the very least, after over 2 years, we deserve a discussion and a robust system that addresses more than drug dealing.
Point 2. I think you need to go back and read ALL of what developers have said. For years we have been told about the inability to implement player for player smuggling, a direct player smuggling content, just to be told that when (or if) we ever get even a PvE smuggling system we may be looking at being direct player content for another profession. If you don't see a problem with this, then you're biased. Once again, this is an example of Smugglers being treated and told one thing while other professions recieve different treatment. This has nothing to do with Rangers. It has to do with the state and treatment of the Smuggler profession. We don't even have our missions and we're being passed along as content for other professions. Wouldn't it make just a little sense to give us our missions first?
To put it as someone else put it, I want to be stopped/hunted by the people that are supposed to do this. Law enforcement. The Empire. Competing crime syndicates. Not Rangers. If they want to implement this, then it is only FAIR that they finally implement a contraband system, complete with risk and reward, and a need for player for player smuggling.
One other note on number 2. If I have completed my smuggling mission by the time a Ranger gets my mission, then the missions are either entirely too easy and pointless. In other words, a simple delivery mission that has nothing to do with smuggling.
Now if you want to respond on how this all impacts Smugglers, be my guest. Otherwise take your "confusion" posts elsewhere.
CuchulainnDarklight
Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:52 pm
#32
SmugglinZane wrote:
Ok, first let me say that I have yet to state any confusion as to whythe style of Ranger is being changed.
This being the Smuggler forums, I related it to what it means or could mean to us. Now that we have the Ranger/Smuggler BS out of the way, I'll break it down for you, since you seem a little confused about the history of this profession.
Point 1. The only thing EVER mentioned, except for by GM, that we could smuggle would be spice. The dev team has continually resisted a contraband system, and have taken a direction of smuggling being the way to procure spice. That's not what smuggling is, and it should disturb all of us that they still continue to limit the discussion to spice. I don't expect them to list everything, but I do expect them to cease pigeon holing us into smuggling only spice. At the very least, after over 2 years, we deserve a discussion and a robust system that addresses more than drug dealing.
Point 2. I think you need to go back and read ALL of what developers have said. For years we have been told about the inability to implement player for player smuggling, a direct player smuggling content, just to be told that when (or if) we ever get even a PvE smuggling system we may be looking at being direct player content for another profession. If you don't see a problem with this, then you're biased. Once again, this is an example of Smugglers being treated and told one thing while other professions recieve different treatment. This has nothing to do with Rangers. It has to do with the state and treatment of the Smuggler profession. We don't even have our missions and we're being passed along as content for other professions. Wouldn't it make just a little sense to give us our missions first?
To put it as someone else put it, I want to be stopped/hunted by the people that are supposed to do this. Law enforcement. The Empire. Competing crime syndicates. Not Rangers. If they want to implement this, then it is only FAIR that they finally implement a contraband system, complete with risk and reward, and a need for player for player smuggling.
One other note on number 2. If I have completed my smuggling mission by the time a Ranger gets my mission, then the missions are either entirely too easy and pointless. In other words, a simple delivery mission that has nothing to do with smuggling.
Now if you want to respond on how this all impacts Smugglers, be my guest. Otherwise take your "confusion" posts elsewhere.
Point 1. From day 1 Rangers where pigeon holed into being creature hunters. Now they arent. It seems as if the Devs have actually changed their attitude to fixing profession problems outside of jedi. The point is, that it will unlikely be just spice, if it was you have rangers who will now be going, all we can confiscate is spice, this is boring. In other words more voices asking for more smuggled contraband.
Point 2. Rangers were always told there would never be gorund traps, damgage output, or radar invisibility. These are here now. Things are changing, for the better. We have had 2 prof revamps in the past couple of months, now another. You havent read the dev posts yourself. There isnt going to be any PvP smuggling/stealing. Its NPC related at the start to see if it works. If it does then player related related smuggling/confiscation would come afterwards.
You say you want to be stopped and hunted by law enforcement. Well guess what? Thats what rangers are in the Star Wars universe! Thats why rangers would be the ones hunting smugglers. You really should check that post out, you might then understand how the changes to ranger will reflect on to other professions, if you know what ranger is.
I agree that smuggling needs a multilayered smuggling system set up (one of the reasons I gave it after mastering most of it) but you have to start somewhere, and they have just said that they intend to start it off small and make it bigger time goes on (PvE first, then limited PvP then greater PvP), rather than the usual SOE way of dropping a load of buggy crap into the game that makes things worse.
It impacts Smuggler and every other profession as it shows, along with recent events that the Devs are actually starting to fix stuff.
SmugglinZane
Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:24 pm
#33
We're dealing with a long history here. Statements about this game never mean the same to Smugglers as they do everyone else since Smugglers have always been treated differently. They've always been told different from the rest of the professions, and they've always been handled differently. To put it more simply, you cannot climb out of a hole with empty aspirations when proof of the contrary exists.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Point 1. From day 1 Rangers where pigeon holed into being creature hunters. Now they arent. It seems as if the Devs have actually changed their attitude to fixing profession problems outside of jedi. The point is, that it will unlikely be just spice, if it was you have rangers who will now be going, all we can confiscate is spice, this is boring. In other words more voices asking for more smuggled contraband.
Unlikely is contrary to what's been said. Not just in the past, but in the present.The only thing EVER discussed has been spice. The centerpiece of what they propose IC is spice (it's justa couple sentence summary of what they've already proposed). I'll believe more when I am given a reason to believe more. I will not toss around false hope, that bridge was burned a long time ago. Rangers may have been pigeon holed into being creature hunters in the past, but that is matter of interpretation of what a Ranger in Star Wars is. There does not exist that same room for interpretation for Smugglers. As we exist now, and have been discussed for the future, we are now and will remain drug dealers until they listen to the community and develop this profession to be Smugglers.
Point 2. Rangers were always told there would never be gorund traps, damgage output, or radar invisibility. These are here now. Things are changing, for the better. We have had 2 prof revamps in the past couple of months, now another. You havent read the dev posts yourself. There isnt going to be any PvP smuggling/stealing. Its NPC related at the start to see if it works. If it does then player related related smuggling/confiscation would come afterwards.
Things are changing for the better for whom? Not Smugglers. We were told things wouldn't be changing for anyone, including us. No we see that once again this was a ruse, a lie perpetuated by the dev team, kind of like the fact that they didn't want to do revamps anymore. If you want the proof of what I'm saying, look up the history thread. Everything I'm talking about regarding this is in there. And as for the Ranger/Smuggler connection for stealing, it's the only thing that has been mentioned which means that's the line of thought they're taking. Their lines of thought manifest themselves in codebefore we ever get a chance to make input, which is why it's better to be proactive and discuss these things now instead of "waiting to see if it works". Furthermore, Rangers are being told that it will support PvP stealing, but Smugglers have been told PfP Smuggling will not be (at least in the distant past, in the recent past and present they have only discussed spice and a system that WOULD NOT lend itself to PfP smuggling).
You say you want to be stopped and hunted by law enforcement. Well guess what? Thats what rangers are in the Star Wars universe! Thats why rangers would be the ones hunting smugglers. You really should check that post out, you might then understand how the changes to ranger will reflect on to other professions, if you know what ranger is.
Thievery IS NOT law enforcement. Thievery is simply that, thievery. You can call Rangers whatever you want but skulking and theft is not law enforcement. Law enforcement and punishment have to do with catching me in the act of smuggling and trying to stop me/take me out before I can finish the job. That and capture and punish me after the fact (in other words player bounties for this part). At this point Rangers will be more underhanded and have a bigger tie to an underworld than Smugglers, and that just ain't right. You can't paint it however you want, but stealing is still stealing.
I agree that smuggling needs a multilayered smuggling system set up (one of the reasons I gave it after mastering most of it) but you have to start somewhere, and they have just said that they intend to start it off small and make it bigger time goes on (PvE first, then limited PvP then greater PvP), rather than the usual SOE way of dropping a load of buggy crap into the game that makes things worse.
It impacts Smuggler and every other profession as it shows, along with recent events that the Devs are actually starting to fix stuff.
Where have the devs shown that they are fixing Smuggler. They haven't fixed Ranger, they've changed it. They have revamped other professions, that for a long time were not broken (entertainer professions were necessary and functional until the CU), while we have been lacking the most important aspect of our profession since launch. The only thing this means to Smugglers is that we got hosed again, and that the only things they are talking about for the future are pretty far off from what the community has been discussing for over 2 years. That's how it impacts this profession. Other than bug fixes and the dreaded FRS, show me one other profession that has the need for the kind of development that has been happening? Now let me remind you that we have already been told we ARE NOT getting that kind of development.
CuchulainnDarklight
Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:44 pm
#34
SmugglinZane wrote:
We're dealing with a long history here. Statements about this game never mean the same to Smugglers as they do everyone else since Smugglers have always been treated differently. They've always been told different from the rest of the professions, and they've always been handled differently. To put it more simply, you cannot climb out of a hole with empty aspirations when proof of the contrary exists.
Rangers have been treated worse than Smugglers. Smugglers have had a little attention. Just because it was totally hamfisted and made things worse does not negate that fact. Rangers have been ignored from release.
No matter how bad the new slicing system was (I was a smuggler pre CU so havent a clue about it) it was still something new, no matter how crap. On the other hand Ranger (as is now evident) was launched with skill that should be in scout. As time went on those skills became completely useless and were stealthily removed. Currently nothing in Ranger works as it should, if it works at all.
And on the point about stealing, how else are you to implement a covert retreival of an item from someone without them realising (sneaky rangeresque covert spec ops work) within the game. Admittedly, they should have named it something better than "stealing" as that gives people the wrong idea, in much the same way ranger is thought of as Aragorn and Smuggler is thought of as "one who smuggles". A better term would have been "Investigate and Acquire" or something similar. When a camoflaged and stealthy covert ops unit enters a building and takes something, that is not theft that is "covert retrieval of the required evidence".
There is no "proof" that you will get nothing as a smuggler, however there is evidence that smuggling, in a thought out and layered manner, will be added into the game after the Ranger revamp and evidence that the Devs attitude has for some reason (falling sub numbers, bad reviews?) taken a different route.
WesBelden
Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:15 pm
#35
This thread has gone wayyyy off topic and seems to be turning into a "my pain is worse than yours" argument.. please, if you have to continue something that would seem painful in itself, do so in a new thread or PM, as it's a far cry from what this thread should be discussing.
Spiderhammer
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:42 pm
#36
L-a-O wrote:
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
This sounds more like a skill that would belong to Smugglers...
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
This sounds more like a skill that would belong to Smugglers...
really QFE its almost like the other devs beat up green marine and stole his smuggler docs for a tree hugger profession SMUGGLER = ROUGE RANGER = HIPPY
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
This sounds more like a skill that would belong to Smugglers...
if i type slowly will people start to comprehend.... S W G r a n g e r s a r e m e a n t t o b e l i k e a r m y r a n g e r s n o t l i k e E Q
Turd_Ferguson523
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:59 pm
#37
Spiderhammer wrote:
L-a-O wrote:
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
This sounds more like a skill that would belong to Smugglers...
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
This sounds more like a skill that would belong to Smugglers...
really QFE its almost like the other devs beat up green marine and stole his smuggler docs for a tree hugger profession SMUGGLER = ROUGE RANGER = HIPPY
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
This sounds more like a skill that would belong to Smugglers...
if i type slowly will people start to comprehend.... S W G r a n g e r s a r e m e a n t t o b e l i k e a r m y r a n g e r s n o t l i k e E Q
Yeah, some people really aren't getting that. Great post in the Ranger forums
SmugglinZane
Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:40 am
#38
Some people realise this, while others want to believe that it's the only argument being madebecause they're too dimwitted to reason out the difference between FACT and OPINION.
(Not really directed at you, more to the troll who finally let his true motives finally be known.)
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