Smuggler Archive
Thread: How are we doing on getting player BHs on us?
Nezodon wrote:
I want to be a smuggler that doesnt mean pvp or fighting it is the opposite its about avoiding the fight its about getting your job done and getting out of their of course fighting may happen if i get scanned and attacked though a fight to the death i would like to see become a last resort if escape is impossible.
In all honesty we have nothing to gain with a pc BH system and everything to loss just look at all the changes which keeps getting made to the jedi profession im surprised their heads arnt exploding.
Being a smuggler doesn't mean PvP. Unless you choose it. Just because you don't want the option to be hunted and would rather play safe avoiding a stupid AI and collecting meaningless credits doesn't mean your opinion is universal.
Bring on the BHs, i say. They know what smugglers are. The only issue with Jedi using FD and LD is very simple. They're Jedi. Not smugglers. They're stealing our specials to avoid the penalties they knew were inherent in the profession they chose. We're smugglers. When Player BH missions happen, the BHs know very well what they're getting into. And us? If we choose to play the dull game against the halfwit AI we never have to run from them.
It is obvious that there is no "universal opinion" here, and I don't see anyone claiming to represent one. That's why this is a discussion. You know... people making arguments for and against.
Personally, I'd rather earn credits against a "stupid AI" than a "Stupid BH" -- not meaning that they all are, but enough that it would be obvious. I'd also rather that the Fight Clubs not have anything to do with Smugglers, and you know that there are enough 1337 players that they'd show up here.
Given all the potential exploits, all the potential griefers, etc.etc.etc -- I'll pass, thanks.*
*This statement is my opinion and is not intended to express or imply any universality.
Honestly? I'd rather fight PC BHers because there's no decay on death from PvP. If the NPC BH kills you, you'll have decay on all your stuff. The PC BH? No decay.
Let me respond by first saying that I have two accounts with one being a bounty hunter and one being a smuggler. I just love the seedy professions.
Nezodon wrote:
That would be my problem this would penalise smugglers who want nothing to do with the mess and hate which is created by the bounty system which exists with jedi and BH.
If a system to hunt smuggler's is implemented it should be a choice of whether i want to be hunted rather than if i dont take the critical mission i will be unable to keep up with the smugglers who want to be.
I guess I just see this differently. If we want the highest payouts, risk screwing over our contractors and benefit from taking shortcuts, we should be hunted. It fits more into the storyline of SWG than the BH vs. Jedi thing right now anyway. If you want to fly under the radar and take missions that offer the sure thing, then your reward should be commensurate. However, my support for player bounties also assumes that there will ultimately be balance between player skills and NPC AI.
If smugglers want to be hunted then thats fine their reward is the excitement of being hunted by a pc though i dont think the pve player should be penalised because of their game style choice.
Im all for making missions which are critical and will call a higher level BH to attack you though i dont think a pc BH should be sent out unless the smuggler wants it to, the choice shouldnt be between a better reward and being hunted or a poor reward and only attracting npc BH's.
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My fear is that with the maturity which i read on the BH and jedi forums i would rather not get tied into it personaly though i accept other are wanting to get involved in it and thats fine but i dont want to be left out in the cold because i only do the lower missions because i choose not to be involved in the hate system which it encourages.
Understandable. This should all be taken care of through game mechanics, which I'm sure that you and I will agree, just aren't there yet. There should be no difference between an NPC bounty hunter or a PC bounty hunter hunting you down and attempting to take you out as a mark. This all has to do with balancing the AI of the NPCs to the skill limitations of the player bounty hunters. Would you be totally opposed to a player bounty hunter hunting you if it was virtually the same as taking on an NPC of equal power and similar AI? If the game mechanics really worked that way, I would assume you wouldn't have a problem with a player bounty hunter coming after you.
As a personal choice, I am not hunting Jedi right now with my bounty hunter because the current system is totally unfair to the Jedi. I wanted game balance that made for fair fights between bounty hunters and jedi of equal skill level. That system is just not there right now and until it is, I won't play it. I'll make my 200k a night by hunting NPC bounties or looting other NPCs.
To just finish up the more i think about it the more i dont like the idea of smuggler bounties i believe some one has already mentioned it feign death is a smuggler move and has saved my neck many times likewise has last ditch all i can see by making us a pvp class is both of these being nerf'ed to useless due to the whining which we see between the jedi and BH community.
Well, since the CURB, feign death is a PvEonly skill now anyway due to the fact you can be DBed by a player if you use the skill. I hope they never nerf last ditch, that's a great equalizer for the smuggler. Last ditch doesn't always hit, so it isn't always a sure thing.
I think its sad that rather than concentrating on getting smuggling missions in game we are focused on failing them and being hunted at the moment we dont have missions prehaps these should come before this is decided, im more interested in having cool missions to do than BH's hunting me i think these are seperate issues it seems like this thread is more focused on the content it provides the BH's rather than what it provides us.
Not neccessarily failing smuggler missions. It's the fact that throughout a smuggler mission there will be ways forus to "maximize" the payout through underhanded means and slice and steal cargo meant for our clients. This has the potential, depending on how the devs design the system, of making the smugglers one of the most lucrative professions in the game. There has to be some balance to that.
As for content, I see this as additional content for all sides. I'm all for spreading the content around to everyone as long as it is done the right way.
Let me end by saying that I understand your side of the argument being based on the way things currently are in the game. I'm against player bounties on smugglers if things stay the same, too. I support player bounties if the system is fair and balanced.
I don’t want Smuggler involved with all the infantile behavior that comes with a bounty system like the Jedi/BH Bounty System.
There are a number of reasons the Jedi/BH bounty system is rife with immaturity.
Jedi is the most powerful profession in the game and therefore attract two major elements of players: "The L337 Doodz" and the "Power Gamers".
A L337 Dood is a genre of griefer that will do all that it takes to be Ub3r so he can "pwn" you and trash talk you after "all your base belong to us". He will whine and cry about anything that prevents him from doing this.
Power Gamers are constantly on the grind to be the strongest in the game. They see Jedi as an "end game" so they will camp POIs swinging a glow-stick for hours at a time and will whine and cry about anything that prevents them from doing this.
Now, even though Bounty Hunter is a profession that invites a certain breed of griefer due to the ability to hunt other players, the vast majority of BHs take the profession because they have a problem with Jedi being in the game at all.
Combine this with the fact that a Jedi loses XP with each death caused by a BH and you get the mess that is the Jedi Bounty Hunting system.
The BHs kill their mark preventing the L337 Doodz from being Ub3r and the Power Gamers from finishing the game. They whine and get whatever they ask for from the Devs. The BH whine and the Devs throw them a bone. Etc.
A Smuggler Bounty system would not have these problems because:
NO ONE takes smuggler to become Ub3r (we are designed to be on par with every other prof.)
Smugglers do NOT lose XP with their deaths.
Bounty Hunters (for the most part) know what they are going against.
In short, a Smuggler Bounty system doesn’t have a fifth of the baggage that comes with the Jedi/Bounty Hunting System.
Think of it this way: How bad are the PvP encounters between Rebels and Imperials?
They are nowhere as intense because the losses and emotions aren’t as fueled as the Jedi/BH ones (even though, I’m sure the Devs would LOVE for it to be that way).
I don’t think I should be forced to PvP to be on equal par as a Smuggler who does participate in player bounties. Rewards should be the same- the experience of being hunted by a PC-BH IS the reward of player bounties.
This thought is wrong on a lot of levels.
Every single one of the serious proposals for Smuggler Bounties has been based on a "by consent only" rule. So there is no way a Smuggler would be surprised his/her name is on the terminals.
As it was last discussed (GMs thread) there would be two types of missions High Risk and Low Risk. The High risks ones would result in Player BHs coming after you for failure. The Low risk ones would result in NPC BHs, of course.
So you would have to accept the mission with the PC-BH consequences.
It was also discussed that PC-BHs are NOT the reward. That is the RISK. And that risk is higher than the one you risk with a NPC-BH therefore the reward should be somewhat higher than the low risk mission. Risk = Rewards. If I take a high risk mission, in no way should I get the same reward as the low risk mission because I went the extra yard and opened myself up for the greater danger. The surer possibility of lying incapped in some field on Naboo (as I have been doing the past week).
I don’t want our specials to get nerfed as they are bound to do once those BH types start complaining about us using them.
I really don’t think this would happen as we are NOT an uber profession and LD and FD are NOT "I win" buttons. Hell, they aren’t even "I’m gonna get away" buttons as I’ve found out as I’m laying in the Nabooian grass.
On top of that a BH has access to those very same abilities. It’s just a totally different thing when a Smuggler has a viable ability and when Jedi do because there is no animosity for us having them.
In the end the Devs will put forth the NPC system first and I hope and pray they will see the light and give us real BHs as this would be great content, an excellent Smuggler end game and there is no reason we cannot have a fully consented system in place.
Silvarran wrote:
If you get player bounties on smugglers it will still be as bad as the Jedi/Bh fiasco. Forcing someone to PvP to make better money is wrong right off the bat. Second, its not about Jedi being uber or even losing XP as at knight level it doesnt matter. Its about people who are immature on the Jedi and the Bh side wanting to WIN. thats it. BH's will say they should always be able to kill a smuggler and sure the smuggler may not lose XP but what will they lose? One thing is that you will have BH's killing you anytime and anywhere and if your in your house crafting spices, well you'll be called names or if your afk in a house you'll be called names and such. 80% of the Jedi and BH community are decent people (that I have actually interacted with anyway) but the 20% that are jerks go out of their way to mess it up for everyone. I predict 100% that the smuggler/BH will be as bad as the Jedi BH if they do it.
But if it's an opt-in system, then it'll be fine. The only people who are being hunted want to be hunted. However, as has been stated above, player BHs are a greater risk then NPC BH (unless there's a major, major overhaul to the AI) and therefore the greater risk should come with greater reward. Also, if the moment you're DBed for a bounty you're off the terms, I really fail to see the problem. You're not going to be hunted constantly merely for being a smuggler, you'll only be hunted for messing up missions or stealing.