Smuggler Archive
Thread: Jedi breaking feign death
Lhynius wrote:
Nicolas_Frost wrote:
The devs probably did it so that Jedi have a way to get Bounty Hunters with a mission on them up so that they can be killed. Doesn't mean I like it, but that's my guess as to why it does that.SO BH can FD now? not just us?
Only if they have Novice Smuggler.
The whole Jedi thing is a problem, both with continuity and population. I say we put them all on one server and let them be. Do they even need help from any other Player Character? How does that promote community?
As far as Feign goes, I understand that both Jedi and BH need a way to counter it, but if we get our revamp pushed back because of the Jedi and then get more of our skills nerfed because of them, there aren't going to be any Smugglers left. If we lose feign then they better fix Panic Shot and make it so Master Smugglers can pull their speederbike while in combat.
Thochkored wrote:
As far as Feign goes, I understand that both Jedi and BH need a way to counter it, but if we get our revamp pushed back because of the Jedi and then get more of our skills nerfed because of them, there aren't going to be any Smugglers left. If we lose feign then they better fix Panic Shot and make it so Master Smugglers can pull their speederbike while in combat.
yimaz wrote:
Things that make you go Hummmmm: The Jedi order in this time line is suppose to be all but extinct, yet the Smugglers are the ones who seem to be going the way of the jedi. It seems arse backwards to have more jedi in this game then smugglers, bounty hunters and every other profession in universe.
yimaz wrote:Things that make you go Hummmmm: The Jedi order in this time line is suppose to be all but extinct, yet the Smugglers are the ones who seem to be going the way of the jedi. It seems arse backwards to have more jedi in this game then smugglers, bounty hunters and every other profession in universe.
Well I guess as Obi Wan ( a JEDI) would say, it depends on your point of view. The Devs can look at raw numbers, and if you factor the number of Pistoleers who picked up dirty fighting, the feigning bh's, the feigning jedis, the smith/smugglers, I'm sure there numbers would most likely show that smuggler is one of the LARGEST population bases.
But I'm not Obi Wan and I don't get down like that; all those people are NOT NOT NOT smugglers, even if they can throw up a tag or two that says otherwise.
Bohdi-Tzu wrote:
A little research in the jedi forum reveals that this is probably the "heal all states other" skill. It is a master-healer level skill that heals all damage and removes all states from another player, apparently including the FD state. Probably an unforeseen or incidental side-effect of a useful team support skill.
As far as being "unfair" to the smuggler, maybe your feign would get removed, but it looks like you'd get completely healed (battle fatigue included) when they broke your feign. This skill has a high force cost, and you could always feign again. If i were a jedi fighting a BH and I had him beat up and feigned, i'm not sure I would heal him up so he could go at me again...
I think this is a very good point that bears repeating...Jedi walks up, completely heals the FDing character...FDing character is now completely healed and free to flee, fight, or feign again...
Morthon wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
We know it's not acceptable, it should all be reexamined in the combat upgrade. We had some serious issues with this admission.
Glad to hear, I read it as if you guys had just accepted it. Should have known better I guess.
hell no we did not accept it. I think I was prally the first one to repot this bug to Wes a while ago and I've been chomping at the bit to see it fixed along with the other non named force power that does this
It's amazing the number of exploits/bugs that the jedi manage to find
Nicolas_Frost wrote in A BH asking about Feign Death--please don't flame:
My Solution(longish):
Keep the skill where it is, but change the function of the skill mod. Right now, as a Master Smuggler, I remember all the times /feigndeath has failed on me, all four of them. One at Dirty Fighting 1, two at Dirty Fighting 4, and one as a Master Smuggler. The mod shouldn't determine whether or not you can fall down and play dead, the mod should determine how well you can, since its unlikely we'll ever be able to fake our deaths. Then spread the skill mod throughout the Smuggler tree, not just in the Dirty Fighting branch.
At lower levels(0010), the effect mainly helps you against NPCs, with some possibility of helping fool players(minimum success rate of 5%). As you level, the success rate increases(capping at 95% as a Master).
Give Bounty Hunters a skill at 1000 that allows them to inspect corpses. Meaning after a Smuggler Feigns, the Bounty Hunter opens a radial on the Smuggler and selects the Inspect option, or can just target the smuggler and use /inspect. The skill mod for this should be spread about Hunter just as the Feign Death mod would in Smuggler. Minimum Success rate of 5% and max of 95%, actual percentages vary depending on each players levels(2040 Smuggler vs 3321 Bounty Hunter). Players with equal levels(2222 Smuggler vs 2222 Hunter, two Masters, etcetera) are a coin toss to see who would win.
So the Jedi are happy, give them a similar skill that lets them sence life in people, but include it in only *one* of the Jedi trees, and balance it just like the Inspect and Feign Death mods.
Now here comes the fun part.
Say a Bounty Hunter has a mission on a Smuggler. The Smuggler Feigns, and wins the dice roll when the Hunter inspects. The hunter *fails* the mission, gets no reward, but, can pick the mission back up for that Smuggler in twenty-four hours. Conversely, the Smuggler Feigns, but loses the dice roll, the Hunter can immediately attack the Smuggler again, and since Feign Death is essentually using a Knockdown on yourselve, the Smuggler is very vulnerable, but can still try to get back up.
So, why wouldn't a Hunter just camp the Smuggler? I mean, he's gotta move sometime, right? Well, to stop this before it starts, add in a three to five minute timer starting from the point the Smuggler feigned, if the Hunter doesn't /inspect in that length of time, it's just like the Smuggler winning the dice roll.
Here comes the even more fun part: How to keep Bounty Hunters and Jedi from abusing Feign Death on each other, and potentially Smugglers, if those types of missions ever come out.
If a Bounty Hunter uses Feign Death in the midst of a Hunting mission, they suffer a set of penalties.
Penalty for Bounty Hunter: Failure of the mission.
TEF on mark cleared
Inability to pick up the same mission for three days.
Next two or three missions are for less money and/or experience.
Angry letters from Boba Fett.
If a Jedi uses Feign Death because they don't want to fight, even though Jedi is built to be a PvP class, they suffer a set of penalties.
Penalty for Jedi: Experience loss equal to 75% of that lost when incapacitated(maybe 125% instead of 75%)
Visibility raised slightly
Bounty Hunter loses TEF, but does not lose mission.
Can't be healed while playing opposum(to stop Jedi from calling doctors in while on thier backs)
The Emperor sends you nude photos of himself as punishment.
Now, why did I not list any penalties for Smugglers? Well, the skill *is* in the Smuggler tree. Why should we be penalized for using one of our own skills?
Message Edited by meninus on 12-22-2004 05:44 AM
OrianaM wrote:
Bohdi-Tzu wrote:
A little research in the jedi forum reveals that this is probably the "heal all states other" skill. It is a master-healer level skill that heals all damage and removes all states from another player, apparently including the FD state. Probably an unforeseen or incidental side-effect of a useful team support skill.
As far as being "unfair" to the smuggler, maybe your feign would get removed, but it looks like you'd get completely healed (battle fatigue included) when they broke your feign. This skill has a high force cost, and you could always feign again. If i were a jedi fighting a BH and I had him beat up and feigned, i'm not sure I would heal him up so he could go at me again...I think this is a very good point that bears repeating...Jedi walks up, completely heals the FDing character...FDing character is now completely healed and free to flee, fight, or feign again...
Counter point:
There are 2 skills at box 4 of Force Assist. "Heal State Other" and "Heal All Other" Then at Master there is "Total Heal Other". If they use the "Heal State Other" and it breaks Feign.. that's ALL it does is remove States (Poison, Disease, etc.). Unless something has changed since the Jedi in my PA showed me the different powers. Now if they can only remove Feign with "Total Heal Other" that's different, because that removes BF, Wounds, Poison, Disease, etc. etc. and that wouldn't be a problem. Usually, not always, but usually when someone Feigns it's to avoid death, right? Unless of course your a factioned Smuggler exploiting the Feign to keep a base from being destroyed, but that's a topic for a different discussion. So if they are healing us up completely in the process of breaking the Feign, well.. hey, I wouldn't object to being completely healed up by my enemy so I can attack him some more, then just Feign again if I need to.
But if they are able to do it with "Heal State Other 2", well, that's a problem, because that doesn't heal damage, wounds, BF, etc. It only heals states. (Again, this may have changed since our PA's Jedi was showing me his powers, there have been a few patches, but I haven't seen it in the patch notes, so....)