Smuggler Archive

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Personally I think feign death needs to be rebuilt from the ground up from a passive defensive skill to an active one. Whether it is by an illusion, flash-bang, smoke and mirrors... whatever. The ability to escape with some reliability, that doesn't keep us tethered to one spot is essential in a goal of preventing player camping/griefing techniques. As well as assuring that there is a win/lose solution to every encounter for one person or the other. Not a stalemate lasting till someone with a good enough counter skill arrives on the scene.

Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 11-16-2004 02:33 PM

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This is a good point - that's pretty much what's happening now, except there is no practical counter (a very few people will actually call a Master Healer friend to resolve the conflict).

Perhaps something that makes the target look incapacitated, but when you walk up to the target to perform a deathblow, he, uhm, punches you in the unmentionables or something like that to prevent you from targeting him for a short period of time, allowing for a quick escape (pulling out a speeder, for example). Or a method like you've described - a hologram of some sort, coupled with a cloaking device. I'm not sure how much of a continuity breach that would be. And perhaps there should be some differentiation between PvP and PvE Feign Death - to be effective in PvP, you'd have to use a special device like described above and it would give you just enough time to escape, and in PvE it would work just by lying on your back - more or less just like it does now.

It all seems like a very complicated system to implement, though - as we all know, our beloved Devs, praise to them, are fans of quick fixes for issues that aren't part of a revamp of some sort. Do you think there are any chances of getting a proper FD system in the CU since it's, after all, a skill which directly affects combat, or will it be part of the elusive Smuggler Revamp? I'm inclined to believe that, if it's done in the CU, it will be more of a quick fix, and that there are better chances of it being done properly in the Revamp, if it ever comes.

so jedi healing powers transcend faction?

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Geevo wrote:

I know I am the minority here, but I actually think this is a good thing.

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if it was same faction thing it would be fine but opposite faction doing this is a exploit IMO. why should a dark jedi knight be healing a overt rebel smuggler for example?

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fishbrains wrote:

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Geevo wrote:

I know I am the minority here, but I actually think this is a good thing.

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if it was same faction thing it would be fine but opposite faction doing this is a exploit IMO. why should a dark jedi knight be healing a overt rebel smuggler for example?

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To be the devil's advocate ... because they are in tune with the Force and can detect life. In so doing, they have a special to do something about it.

On another note ... would you rather the riflemen get something like this? Medics? Carbineers? I am quite happy it is Jedi rather than any other profession.

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Geevo wrote:

To be the devil's advocate ... because they are in tune with the Force and can detect life. In so doing, they have a special to do something about it.

On another note ... would you rather the riflemen get something like this? Medics? Carbineers? I am quite happy it is Jedi rather than any other profession.

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But now that one has it, others will want something similar in comparison. Medic professions will argue that they can know how to read life signs. BHs will argue that they are hunters and should be able to tell when their foe is defeated. At the very least, this adds more to the anti jedi arguers, with us in the middle of it.

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Yes, apparently they do.

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and that's by design? I'm finding that a little hard to swallow ah well. it's a pretty high level skill

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WesBelden wrote:

As you’ll know from reading this thread, it seems that the Jedi Force power CureAllOther removes a Smuggler from the state of FD. I was told about this before it got posted and promptly posted in the correspondent forum alerting them to what I assumed was an exploit.

It seems however that this is indeed intentional; the power is intended to remove all combat effects, including FD.

I'm not happy about this, but at least as the CU has every profession's specials reviewed and evaluated, there's at least chance for change in the future.

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See my previous post about what I think about that.

No offense intended, but putting this in before the CU just means that it gives them more time to whine about it and screw with us some more when they finally get the CU in.

Zane

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Geevo wrote:

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fishbrains wrote:

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Geevo wrote:

I know I am the minority here, but I actually think this is a good thing.

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if it was same faction thing it would be fine but opposite faction doing this is a exploit IMO. why should a dark jedi knight be healing a overt rebel smuggler for example?

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To be the devil's advocate ... because they are in tune with the Force and can detect life. In so doing, they have a special to do something about it.

On another note ... would you rather the riflemen get something like this? Medics? Carbineers? I am quite happy it is Jedi rather than any other profession.

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Carefull Geevo, I might have to start calling you TH with that answer. That's a cop oluot answer and you know it. FD just needs to be build from the ground up.

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O_Shua wrote:

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Keep FD at dirty fighting 1. Anyone who is not Master Smuggler will appear as Incapped. A MS with FD will appear as a corpse (if he/she disires). Master Cannot be taken out of FD unless he/she disires. Anyone with a BH skill or anyone with Jedi skill (force sensitives excluded) cannot use FD.

Thats all I can think of to improve it atm. Dont flame but constructive critisim and other ideas for it would be great.

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trouble is that if you're a master smuggler and a Desperado you can't FD, maybe you could tweak your idea with "anyone with investigation skills"?

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

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riotcontrol wrote:

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

I find the decision to put this as part of the ability not very will thought out to say the least, nor do I find it showing any form of respect or possitive regard for the Smugglers and their abilities. This change was not discussed with us, or even hinted to us for months. I find that particularly upsetting and I hope that this is adjusted in the combat upgrade to bring a good form of balance to the use of feign death without the use of an 'I win' card.

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I'm wondering - do you have any ideas how to 'fix' the Feign Death issue so it's not a problem when/if Smuggler bounties are implemented? Current ideas like 'put it on Master in PvP and on Dirty Fighting 1 for PvE' don't really take the possibility of a true Smuggler and a Bounty Hunter interacting - they only seem to solve the issues between BH and Jedi dabblers. Does the Combat Upgrade even take this scenario into consideration?

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Personally I think feign death needs to be rebuilt from the ground up from a passive defensive skill to an active one. Whether it is by an illusion, flash-bang, smoke and mirrors... whatever. The ability to escape with some reliability, that doesn't keep us tethered to one spot is essential in a goal of preventing player camping/griefing techniques. As well as assuring that there is a win/lose solution to every encounter for one person or the other. Not a stalemate lasting till someone with a good enough counter skill arrives on the scene.

While laying in the dirt can be fun in it's own way, I find it bad for immersion, combat balance and player interaction when it is used in a PvP situation. In PvE the problems are not as pronounced but I still feel that the skill makes most encounters too risk free for my liking.

The 'Stunt Double' like you might see used in Space Balls was used to interesting effect. While it is partially absurd in the idea of someone vanishing before someones eyes or being replaced by someone/something to lay on the ground for you the primary goals of escaping to live another day, not promoting grief play and keeping the player involved in the game one way or another more than make up for it from my perspective.

Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 11-16-2004 02:33 PM

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I agree with Caylin on this. Instead of FD smugglers should have some way of escaping combat, a smuggler's evasion sort of speak. It should end combat for a certain period of time, which could leave an opening for the smuggler to escape. There should of course be some limitations on how often you can use it and it should be possible to fail it. Just as an example then a master smuggler could have like 80-90% chance of evading his/her opponents if they are regular players/mobs and only like 50% chance against a master BH. A successful evasion wouldn't end a bounty (This is mostly with sight on an eventual implementation of smugglers on BH terminals) this would in my opinion lead to more immersion. Imagine a long hunt between a smuggler and a BH (Honestly then I've never liked that it's possible for a player to be on the terminals and getting away with it, just by not logging in for a certain amount of time)

I don't know if it's possible to make such a change or if it really is that good an idea... I just liked the thought of being hunted for several days by a BH. Anyway it'll probably not happen, as any programming related to making smugglers more fun is deemed impossible.

Abai Kunanbayev.