Smuggler Archive

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Orcajum wrote:
I just think it sets a bad precidense. No longer having to invest skill points in something to be able to use it. (sound familiar to anyone?) I also think if this is the case, in a year we'll be back to a definitive Uber 1337 Template running around with the best specials on just about any weapon. While i'd like being able to use different weapons and such, i think evenutally it's going to cause more trouble than it's going to be worth.

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you have to invest skill points to gain level >> you have to invest skill points to gain certifications

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CapnKate wrote:
A few things, on the weapon cert topic, as I understand them:

I beleive this was done in response to another issue brought up in the chat. Namely, to livel, say... Rifles after I'm already a midlevel Pistoleer, I'd normally have to use a CDEF... but for XP, I have to use a CDEF against soemthing at that midlevel. This is a problem, especially for the solo player, as you have to plink at a L40 or whatever with a crappy CDEF. Now, they could fix this by making level change with weapon equipped... which migh cause us other problems, I think, related to defense mods and stuff. Or, they do what they've done: allow us to use a rifle at our level to hunt even cons. Which, on a side note, since XP is higher for even cons at higher levels, means the added bonus of cranking us through the new tree faster. In essense, it rewards us for already having soemthing levelled up more. Not a bad thing, to my mind.

Now, okay, maybe we wanted to keep our smuggler guns, or whatever. Commando has the problem especially, and they're rightly incensed over there, as their weapons *are* what makes their class different. But they've also said certain weapons will retain the class distinction. I expect that, in addition to certain quest-based weapons like the Scythes, most or all commando weapons and things like the Master-level Renegade pistol will also be retained by the profession they belong to as exclusive certs, once everything settles out, and as certs are finalized.

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I just wanted to highlight this. This is an excellent point, and imo a rather creative way to solve the problem.

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Ragnaat wrote:
It still doesn't matter Kate.

The problem is much more fundamental. The way skillpoint allocation currnetly works just doesn't jive with a universal combat level scheme. Doesn't matter which angle you decide to patch and which direnction the penudlum swings.

Instead of a problem leveling there is now no reason to level. You've esentially nerfed the entire idea of professions, but for some odd reason left them in the game. So you'll have soem people who go smuggler because for the same skillpoints its combat+something else, and then you'll have the FOTMers going whatever tempalte gives them the best defenses or specials and then picking up a pair of VKs or a geo pistol anyway.

The only way this whole thing is going to really "work"* is to either drop combat "professions" (and just have one or two combat "lines" or dump the level system and go back to the way it was seet up before.


* by work i mean doesn't have giant loopholes in either cross disapline exploits or special imbalances, skillpoint use imbalances between profs / dabblers, XP gaining/leveling, group and mission level issues, etc. etc.

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Really, We've always had levels, they just didn't mean much, and now they do. Is that going to be a problem? maybe. Dunno. I think we have to wait and see for sure. Regardless, i don't think that's going away just now. So I have to look at what we've got, and with what we've got, this new certing is really a bonus to most of us. I think we possibly also have to see how the final certs pan out. A lot's going to depend on what weapons are locked to skillboxes and what aren't. Because depending... sure some FOTMers will manage to work out some generalized sort of thing... but they always will. That's their nature. What it's going to come down to, is are they really effective enough when they do that? I'm tentatively going to say No, I don't think so. Being able to pick up a weapon is a far cry from using it well. I don't care if some fencer with great defense mods picks up my pistol or VK. If he can't hit me for crap with the thing , he's just wasting his time. I think the people that stick to what they have the skillboxes for are going to outshine the general cert people by a large degree. Meaning that i don't think we'll see many people really fighting outside their tree that much. Time will tell, and I'm sure it'll be adjusted if needed, but an FOTM guy trying to hit me with a rifle he's just got general ranged mods on is probably not going to fare all that well against a master Pistoleer with general AND pistol mods, using a master-only pistol. It's really just a hunch, though.

EDIT: Hot Dog just basically made my point for me, in a more succinct manner. Why use a rifle if you're four times better with a carbine/pistol/sword/flamethrower? This is a debate over on the Commando board as well, but they're in a bigger pickle, as all they HAVE is mods and their weapons. But again, I expect that their certs are all going to be class-exclusive and the current situation is a mistake, in their case.

Message Edited by CapnKate on 04-14-2005 10:49 AM

It's probably not worth it, since even their fellow commandos doen't seem to be getting anywhere with it. I've been tempted to post again, but I'm not sure it's going to make a difference.

Couple things:

What I posted, and shouldn't have bothered, over there as my final thoughts on the matter, were the four facts as I saw them. That the devs had stated Commando weapons are profession-defining, that profession-defining and other "special case" weapons would remain tied to trees, Helios' statement that he expected a change as much as anything in TC, and Tanks' statement that the sky was not falling and they should wait for more info. I also capped this by pointing out this sounds to me like the issue was probably already fixed to their satisfaction. What I got was "don't lecture us, get off our boards". Addmittedly, my first two posts there were made under the mistaken impression I was on a general board, not the commando board, and was therefore more confrontational and preachy than my later posts.

This morning, A new post, in reply to their asking for information, verified that Commando weapons will stay tied to the commando trees. This would be a good time to "told you so", if I was willing to wander out of this forum at this point. This has, unfortunately, not seemed to reduce complaints much, thought at least now it doesn't seem to be the commandos complaining about weapon certs quite so much.