Smuggler Archive
Thread: Constructive Criticism for GM, Tiggs, etc... on the new Slicing Changes.
That's the problem IMO. We shouldn't be on a Plan B, C, D, E-Z. We should be using a Plan A, and if Plan A doesn't work, we need a new Plan A.
Daturaze wrote:
Gotta agree with ya Ganymede - actually have from the start of this whole slicing thing.
Risk aside though, on the topic of components for slicing I've got a few thoughts:
1) Sure, have the uber looted slicing components drop from Purple Conn'd demons - but give crafters the ability to make a subsitute T4 component, which will be inferior to the looted counterpart. This way both crafters and fighters can have it their way. I know I know "You can buy your components" If we get into that discussion we'll go in circles for hours
2) Give the components away through Smuggler missions. Again, this has been talked to death - but boy, I'd sure love the day to come when you have to sneak by the guards either by stealth or by a stolen uniform with a stolen ID card and steal the components
Anyway, I think it's time for a Plan D (or which plan are we on now?)
Cheers
Dat
maxtheusher wrote:
That's the problem IMO. We shouldn't be on a Plan B, C, D, E-Z. We should be using a Plan A, and if Plan A doesn't work, we need a new Plan A.
Cut and past from the thread I started without even seeing this.
Message Edited by Cigaran on 06-30-2005 03:39 PM
Cigaran wrote:Cut and past from the thread I started without even seeing this.
OK, I for one am not all that thrilled with the new loot idea but atleast it makes more sence then cutting the red or blue wire. This new way is what I had originally thought of when I started SWG. Now, I have an idea that may go against what alot of you think but hear me out and perhaps we can work towards this end and get something out of it.What if the Dev's dumped Unarmed 4 as a pre req and replaced it with Engineering 4?Honestly, it would make a ton more sence to me. Sure we get Unarmed bonuses from our skill but none of out specials will work unless you have a blaster equiped. I could see the Unarmed being handy if we couldn't switch to a blaster once combat started with us unarmed. As it sits, Unarmd is worthless to us unless we master TKA as well. With Engineering 4 as a pre req, we would simply need to have the Unarmed bonuses moved to the Underworld line and converted to work for Slicing items.Now, with Engineering 4 needed, it would make a ton of sence to allow the tier 1 slices to not require components along with slicing terminals and containers. If they added schematics for the various slicing items to Underworld, we could creat our own tools this way. Since all slicing is a flat, base percentage increase, we simply would not need to experiment on them much like Spice is now. Adding the schematics will not hurt us in anyway at all and there could still be "uber" slicing tools droped at loot that allow for a higher increase. Having Engineering would also give a nice point to try to get us the ability to slice Starship components too.So, dump Unarmed 4, require Engineering 4 and then drop new schematics into the Underworld line. Make the resources be rare and named, perhaps requiring some sub. comps. from a WS and AS and we have a nice interdependency between the professions and a slicing system and Smuggler in general that make a heck of a lot more sence to me.
QFE
A great idea, I think being a smuggler should entail a little engineering...it fits within the ideal of a pilot always tinkering with the ship and other things. In fact, it's unbelievable someone would be able to slice anything without some knowledge of engineering.
lurdanta wrote:
Cigaran wrote:
Cut and past from the thread I started without even seeing this.
OK, I for one am not all that thrilled with the new loot idea but atleast it makes more sence then cutting the red or blue wire. This new way is what I had originally thought of when I started SWG. Now, I have an idea that may go against what alot of you think but hear me out and perhaps we can work towards this end and get something out of it.
What if the Dev's dumped Unarmed 4 as a pre req and replaced it with Engineering 4?
Honestly, it would make a ton more sence to me. Sure we get Unarmed bonuses from our skill but none of out specials will work unless you have a blaster equiped. I could see the Unarmed being handy if we couldn't switch to a blaster once combat started with us unarmed. As it sits, Unarmd is worthless to us unless we master TKA as well. With Engineering 4 as a pre req, we would simply need to have the Unarmed bonuses moved to the Underworld line and converted to work for Slicing items.
Now, with Engineering 4 needed, it would make a ton of sence to allow the tier 1 slices to not require components along with slicing terminals and containers. If they added schematics for the various slicing items to Underworld, we could creat our own tools this way. Since all slicing is a flat, base percentage increase, we simply would not need to experiment on them much like Spice is now. Adding the schematics will not hurt us in anyway at all and there could still be "uber" slicing tools droped at loot that allow for a higher increase. Having Engineering would also give a nice point to try to get us the ability to slice Starship components too.
So, dump Unarmed 4, require Engineering 4 and then drop new schematics into the Underworld line. Make the resources be rare and named, perhaps requiring some sub. comps. from a WS and AS and we have a nice interdependency between the professions and a slicing system and Smuggler in general that make a heck of a lot more sence to me.
QFE
A great idea, I think being a smuggler should entail a little engineering...it fits within the ideal of a pilot always tinkering with the ship and other things. In fact, it's unbelievable someone would be able to slice anything without some knowledge of engineering.
Seems to me that the simple tool kit should be a schematic right at novice smuggler. Anyone that's a smuggler should have in his skill set the means to do a low level slice.
The finely tuned kit perhaps as a master schematic.
I like the general idea of having to loot parts but it just seems unfortunate how it was implemented. Slicing components should only drop off npc's that can wear armor or fire a weapon. Preferably limiting it to criminal organization members (including rebels). I would be happy to engage in combat for parts if there is that roleplay element of needing to compete with rival organizations for possession of the best stuff.
That said, slicing tools as a result of smuggler missions would make the most sense. If this is a temp fix till that happens then we can wait a couple months I suppose.
All I do know is that in all my converted items I got 1 tier 4 out of like 500.
Example 1: So far, the necessary loot (not just the high-end loot for Slicing IV or Master) appears to be pretty scarce. Several hours of hunting by many Smugglers on several servers has yielded none of the required loot...high or low end. The low-end loot seems to be just as rare as GreenMarine indicated the high-end loot would be. Forget going to the DWB or Avatar to aquire the high-end components, it seems like just finding the low-end components is approaching impossible. I understand that there may be a desire by the Devs to make sliced weapons more scarce in-game, but without Slicing we aren't left with much profession-specific content.
Example 2: The exisitng smuggling tools which we were specifically told would convert to be useful in the new system is horribly bugged. If I have a crate of WUKs for example, only the last WUK I pull out of the crate converts...the other 24 WUKS stay WUKS...which makes them useless junk. I am curious to know if this happend on TC...or if was even tried on TC...before it went Live.
What is really unfortunate is that I see red names appearing in "fun-time" threads quite often. We all like to take breaks from our work (where do you think I am posting this from?) but when I see TH, Tiggs, or the rest participating in threads regarding song lyrics or movie quotes, I am a little put off. When a red name DOES appear in a thread regarding game issues, there is ususally very little if any real feedback. Devs, we ALL understand that the development process is fluid and that too many players take your statements as gospel, but using that as an excuse not to communicate what is going on has become a tired old song. The reason so many people hold you to your statements and accuse you of lying is ultimately due to the situation you have created for yourselves through lack ofeffective communication.
Example 3: The Smuggler Concept notes regarding the new slicing mini-game came out several months ago. The Smuggler community was very excited...then silence from SOE. Months went by without a peep. Sudddenly, the new slicing system appears on TC and it is absolutely nothing like what was proposed to our community! Had there been some dialogue with the Smuggler Community (either through our awesome Correspondent Wes or an actual Dev), the community would have felt that you were attempting to be attentive and responsive to our needs and requests. You have had months to let us know that the mini-game was not viable and that you were considering alternate solutions. Instead, you keep the community in the dark, letting us believe we were getting the mini-game, until BOOM! TC comes online with an unrecognizeable andvery unappealing slicing revamp. You still haven't even told us that the mini-game couldn't be done, just that isnot being done! To make matters worse, the Slicing Concept post was taken down the day that the "replacement" slicing hit TC. Appearance is (almost) everything, and in this case it appeared that you wanted to remove any evidence of a previous plan. If the Concept had been taken down earlier, we would have had time to discuss it and ask questions. The appearance would have been better. In retrospect, the entire situation from publish of the Concept notes to publish onLive now has the appearance that you were trying to mislead us. It should then come as no surprise that players feel they are being deliberately mislead, mistreated, or outright lied to by SOE...in this case you strung the Smugglers along for MONTHS, leading us to believe you were doing one thing when you actually did something very different. YOU had the chance to communicate with us and let us know that changes were coming, but YOU chose to treat us like mushrooms. As a result, many of us"mushrooms" feel like we have been fed nothing but s**t.
Anyway, Smugglers are again left with Spices and Slicing as the focus of their profession...Spices has been marginally improved and is now somewhat in-demand by other players.Slicing has simply seen one lacking system replaced with another. Anyone who readsthrough the Smuggler Forums,can see posts from Devs which indicate that the Smuggler Revamp has (supposedley) been in development for about 2 years...what we are seeing right now does not seem like 2 years of effort. Whetheryou actually like the new system or not, it is hard to deny that the Slicing fix lookslike little more than a last minute scramble to get something pushed out.
I apologize for the length of this rant, but I feel it is VERY important that we get this outin the open. While this thread discusses Smuggler specifically Iam certain thatthe examples I mention are representative of the type of situation which faces ALL players.
I am not one to bluster and threaten to leave, but I am beginning to have serious doubts that this game will continue to entertain me if SOE stays on the path they are currently on. Between the amount of documented bugs making it out of TC, the apparent disinterest inrepairing exisiting content,implementing more loot-based instead of player-based items, and (what I personally feel is the ultimate "easy way out") another round of double XP, I am finding the game system itself to be less and less apealing. I know that the loss of my one subscription will not harm SOE as a whole, so please do not think I am trying todraw a line in the sand with SOE. In expressing my displeasure and frustration, I am not trying to deliver some impassioned (or immature) ultimatum. I am writing this because I really want to continue playing and enjoying this game and because I do NOT want to leave. For my own selfish sake, I hope that SOE is able to regroup and rededicate their efforts so that I will be able to continue logging on and enjoying the game I have been playing for almost 2 years. I realize (and I hope everyone else does too) that if the game is no longer enjoyable for me and I decide to leave, the loss will be felt by me far more than it will be felt by SOE. I really would like to avoid that situation...
Well it just ISN'T fun. I got bored of slicing many months ago and this just isn't reviving my interest in the least.
1. Non-stackable components make a slicing business a big pain in the behind,
2. It's not a lot of fun trying to explain to a customer what they can do and what they need to do it then having them stand around trying to figure out what's the best thing TO do,
3. I don't like crafting but IDISLIKE loot camping even MORE. And there is no rhyme or reason why gorax and krayts have eaten delicate slicing components. *rolls eyes*
4. Knowing exactly what to expect out of every step is rather boring. The random % slices from before were at least interesting in that you never knew when you were going to get something really great. I actually liked the In Concept system and I'm disappointed that we didn't get something closer to it...and no explanation at all why we didn't.
5. And STILL nothing we do is illegal enough to really get the attention of law enforcement in an INTERESTING way. Does anyone know if slicing components are considered contraband during scans btw?
I fail to see why this system is all that wonderful. We're still no less slice monkeys than we were before. I say let the other players apply the stupid components to their own items and give us something to SMUGGLE, slicing for other players is a big pain and doesn't make me feel one bit like a smuggler.
Make slicing loot components **CONFISCATABLE** contraban. This should be coupled with prior suggestions of increasing the drop rate, or else we'd be up the creek without a simple toolkit. Just looking to make this more interesting from a "legality" side. After all, how can it be contraban if nothing bad happens when 'The Man' catches you? EDIT: while I'm busy dreaming... add in an oppertunity for *smugglers* to bribe our way out of having items confiscated after failing a scan evasion. Better the Underworld tier, lower the bribe? (better the fast talk, basically)
Suggestion 4: Echo!
Just another suggestion paid for by the "make it stack" foundation. Best reasons? 1) this loot is of the nature that it does not hold 'unique' attribute ranges, in other words, they're all the same anyway. 2) Other loot of this nature stacks. I'd like to also state stacks like this should be splitable as well, not just for slice loot, but thats a post for another time/place.
Message Edited by KaiRan on 06-30-2005 03:28 PM
Why not utilize the Smuggler's ability to speak with the Jawas at the Mountain Fortress as a way for lower level Smugglers to take their looted guns (you know, those really crappy ones) and ask the Jawa if there's anything of interest on them that they can salvage. For a nominal fee (500 credits or something like that,) you pay the Jawa to salvage the weapon, and then the system creates a roll to see what kind of tool/slicing item you can get from the crappy gun.
Could something like that work for low-level crafters, and also drive down the price people will want to sell those Finely Crafted Toolsets for? Also, there would be a rare chance (albeit a chance) that you'd get a T3 or T4 slicing item...that way, if a Smuggler chooses NOT to participate in the GCW, or doesn't want to (or can't) hunt high level MOBs, they don't have to.
Any thoughts on this?
MISTagent01 wrote:
Why not utilize the Smuggler's ability to speak with the Jawas at the Mountain Fortress as a way for lower level Smugglers to take their looted guns (you know, those really crappy ones) and ask the Jawa if there's anything of interest on them that they can salvage. For a nominal fee (500 credits or something like that,) you pay the Jawa to salvage the weapon, and then the system creates a roll to see what kind of tool/slicing item you can get from the crappy gun.
Could something like that work for low-level crafters, and also drive down the price people will want to sell those Finely Crafted Toolsets for? Also, there would be a rare chance (albeit a chance) that you'd get a T3 or T4 slicing item...that way, if a Smuggler chooses NOT to participate in the GCW, or doesn't want to (or can't) hunt high level MOBs, they don't have to.
^^^ Wonderful idea ^^^