Smuggler Archive
Thread: Just an old quote from the deeeevelopment days.
Starstrider6 wrote:
GanymedePharuu wrote:
i've been through that site. i didn't notice any talks or essays about how game developers should treat their customers. any idea what the talk was titled? or any key words i can google besides "raph koster"?
From Raph? His idea of customer service is to solicit feedback on an idea, implement the worst possible (yet most easily programmed) ideas, then tell the players he did exactly what they wanted and act confused over player anger.Do I like Raph Koster? No. If sense was TNT I don't think Raph could generate a popcorn fart. I think the man lacks the courage to stand up for good ideas (See: 1 player per account, no "alt" if your character decides to become a Jedi - a pre-beta plan as part of "Jedi control") and implements the worst possible systems (See: PvP screwups in UO and SWG).
any key words i can google besides "raph koster"?
Please, PLEASE don't leave me openings like that! I actually do like being able to post on these forums.
so... why does he still lead the industry? and why did they pick him to make the Star Wars MMORPG?
GanymedePharuu wrote:
Starstrider6 wrote:
GanymedePharuu wrote:
i've been through that site. i didn't notice any talks or essays about how game developers should treat their customers. any idea what the talk was titled? or any key words i can google besides "raph koster"?
From Raph? His idea of customer service is to solicit feedback on an idea, implement the worst possible (yet most easily programmed) ideas, then tell the players he did exactly what they wanted and act confused over player anger.
Do I like Raph Koster? No. If sense was TNT I don't think Raph could generate a popcorn fart. I think the man lacks the courage to stand up for good ideas (See: 1 player per account, no "alt" if your character decides to become a Jedi - a pre-beta plan as part of "Jedi control") and implements the worst possible systems (See: PvP screwups in UO and SWG).
any key words i can google besides "raph koster"?
Please, PLEASE don't leave me openings like that! I actually do like being able to post on these forums.
so... why does he still lead the industry? and why did they pick him to make the Star Wars MMORPG?
He was able to put"Lead Designer for UO" on his resume, which (at the time SWG was in the formative stages) was still the gold standard for MMORPG's. he was able to give a good interview, and he came cheap.
That's the only explanation I can think of.
As far as still leading the industry, he doesn't. Not really. Last I saw of Raph he had a corporate title as a "CreativeOfficer" for SOE, which proves the old adage that the only way to make it rich in life is to be born rich, marry into money or be so stupid that they keep promoting you to get you the f**k outta the way.
maxtheusher wrote:
Because he thought allowing people to bake bread in a game would be fun, and it turned out to be a revolutionary idea...
Starstrider6 wrote:
maxtheusher wrote:
Because he thought allowing people to bake bread in a game would be fun, and it turned out to be a revolutionary idea...
*ahem*Point of order.That "I want to bake bread" idea was an open letter written by a UO Stratics staffer, in response toVaporbaneoops! Shadowbane's advertisement "We're not baking bread here!"Raph's ideas (for example, Trammel and stat-loss) consistently suffered from a lack of thought and poor implementation, sprinkled with his patented method of ignoring the playerbase (Those paying customer types) that suggested better ways.
Ignoring the playerbase is actually really really good as a policy. However, it must be done only if you're competent enough to design and develop the game without their "help" and stick to your (presumably good in the first place) design goals.
Starstrider6 wrote:
maxtheusher wrote:
Because he thought allowing people to bake bread in a game would be fun, and it turned out to be a revolutionary idea...
*ahem*Point of order.That "I want to bake bread" idea was an open letter written by a UO Stratics staffer, in response toVaporbaneoops! Shadowbane's advertisement "We're not baking bread here!"Raph's ideas (for example, Trammel and stat-loss) consistently suffered from a lack of thought and poor implementation, sprinkled with his patented method of ignoring the playerbase (Those paying customer types) that suggested better ways.
guess my sarcasm didn't come through enough. Let's try straight talk. He's high on himself, and in his own mind, his idea's are the best there ever were.
That being said, this game was more enjoyable when "Holocron" was still around. I'm not saying it's because of him, but it's something that should be observed.
Laws of Online World Design
There are 3 links off the bottom of the page, could be one of those?
riotcontrol wrote:
Starstrider6 wrote:
maxtheusher wrote:
Because he thought allowing people to bake bread in a game would be fun, and it turned out to be a revolutionary idea...
*ahem*Point of order.That "I want to bake bread" idea was an open letter written by a UO Stratics staffer, in response toVaporbaneoops! Shadowbane's advertisement "We're not baking bread here!"Raph's ideas (for example, Trammel and stat-loss) consistently suffered from a lack of thought and poor implementation, sprinkled with his patented method of ignoring the playerbase (Those paying customer types) that suggested better ways.
Ignoring the playerbase is actually really really good as a policy. However, it must be done only if you're competent enough to design and develop the game without their "help" and stick to your (presumably good in the first place) design goals.
that's the problem with this game it seems... they don't stick to anything.
they want to ignore the Player base, yet they want to listen.
they want to have the game be a fully open Player controlled world, yet they want it to be Developer controlled.
you can't have it both ways, but they seem to be fighting that point.
GanymedePharuu wrote:
that's the problem with this game it seems... they don't stick to anything.
they want to ignore the Player base, yet they want to listen.
they want to have the game be a fully open Player controlled world, yet they want it to be Developer controlled.
you can't have it both ways, but they seem to be fighting that point.
I sense too much thought has been put into this thread.
now to hijack it with beer and pie
Seriously?You guys are right. And to think that There were three main professions in the movies, and the only one they catter to , was theone the fewest people had anything to do with. What there was only four jedi alive at once? Luke, Vader, Yoda, and the Emporer? I bought this game to smuggle, and needless to say Ive been dissapointed so far....
now Im depressed.... hold me 
Starstrider6 wrote:
GanymedePharuu wrote:
that's the problem with this game it seems... they don't stick to anything.
they want to ignore the Player base, yet they want to listen.
they want to have the game be a fully open Player controlled world, yet they want it to be Developer controlled.
you can't have it both ways, but they seem to be fighting that point.
That is an exceptionally poignant statement, considering the number of "fixes" that have hit the game in the last two months that have been attributed to "Fan Fest Feedback", that have left many players scratching their heads and wondering why they were so important when compared to other glaring shortcomings in the game.Reading (between the lines) of Veela's account of what has happened to her, the obvious message is that the Devs want feedback, as long as it's the kind that doesn't push the Devs out of their comfort zone. That is horrendous customer service, and the kind of advertising that unfortunately comes back to haunt a company in a much larger way.To be fair, I don't lay all the blame at the actual Developers and Programmers door either. They get told BY THOSE WHO ARE PAID MUCH TO MAKE SUCH DECISIONS that there is a deadline and said deadline is going to be met. Anyone that participated in the pay-to-beta test-the-game that was the Digital Download of RotW knows first hand what happens when programmers are forced to release code that isn't nearly ready to go.
yes i agree that we can't lay all the blame on the devs and coders. the "suits" (if they even wear suits, who knows) up at Lucas Arts probably call more shots than anyone at SOE.
but i was reading through some of the "laws" that raph koster listed, and surprisingly many of them are fairly accurate. especially the ones about how the Players will react in mob mentality.
regardless, that's still no excuse for making a crappy game... i mean providing a crappy service
riotcontrol wrote:
Starstrider6 wrote:
maxtheusher wrote:
Because he thought allowing people to bake bread in a game would be fun, and it turned out to be a revolutionary idea...
*ahem*
Point of order.
That "I want to bake bread" idea was an open letter written by a UO Stratics staffer, in response toVaporbaneoops! Shadowbane's advertisement "We're not baking bread here!"
Raph's ideas (for example, Trammel and stat-loss) consistently suffered from a lack of thought and poor implementation, sprinkled with his patented method of ignoring the playerbase (Those paying customer types) that suggested better ways.
Ignoring the playerbase is actually really really good as a policy. However, it must be done only if you're competent enough to design and develop the game without their "help" and stick to your (presumably good in the first place) design goals.
I hate to disagree...well, no I don't as I do it all the time.
However ignoring your customer's needs and desires is NEVER a good idea when producing ANY product. Since an on-line game is a product with continual updates and 'improvements' it is vital to consider the changing requirements of the customer. Anyone that produces a product without the ongoing considerations of the customers is looking for eventual failure.
I don't believe for a second that he knows what players want better than the players do. All my observations tells me he designs games to satisfy his own experiments and not to produce a product that will satisfy the customers. SOE sure seems to be following this same philosophy.
Starstrider6 wrote:
GanymedePharuu wrote:
that's the problem with this game it seems... they don't stick to anything.
they want to ignore the Player base, yet they want to listen.
they want to have the game be a fully open Player controlled world, yet they want it to be Developer controlled.
you can't have it both ways, but they seem to be fighting that point.
That is an exceptionally poignant statement, considering the number of "fixes" that have hit the game in the last two months that have been attributed to "Fan Fest Feedback", that have left many players scratching their heads and wondering why they were so important when compared to other glaring shortcomings in the game.
Reading (between the lines) of Veela's account of what has happened to her, the obvious message is that the Devs want feedback, as long as it's the kind that doesn't push the Devs out of their comfort zone. That is horrendous customer service, and the kind of advertising that unfortunately comes back to haunt a company in a much larger way.
To be fair, I don't lay all the blame at the actual Developers and Programmers door either. They get told BY THOSE WHO ARE PAID MUCH TO MAKE SUCH DECISIONS that there is a deadline and said deadline is going to be met. Anyone that participated in the pay-to-beta test-the-game that was the Digital Download of RotW knows first hand what happens when programmers are forced to release code that isn't nearly ready to go.
Personally I think it is more the case that they want to SAY they want our feedback. Saying they do makes them look responsive to us. In actuality I seriously doubt they really want our comments...especially when those comments turn into demands that we find the product we pay for satisfy us.
I also think you are being too literal when we blame the 'devs'. I don't think anyone is specifically blaming the rank-and-file programmer, nor the designer that follows criterea handed down from management. HOWEVER they still choose, of their own volition, to work for these people. If they thought what they were being told to do was wrong then they ought to look for another job. IF they choose to work for management that the don't respect, OR they respect the management that has been responsible for us not SMUGGLING for two years then they ARE to blame.
Even the 'messenger' that comes here infrequently to give us a bit of non-information IS to blame. These people are representatives of the company and as such they bear some responsibility for their choices of who to represent.
And, yes, Lucas Arts must somewhere in here be responsible for this POS as well. They are somewhat shielded but maybe if we started throwing THEIR name around as producers of this garbage we might start getting their attention.
In some ways the customers are also to blame. Even many of those that claim they really WANT to SMUGGLE will passively sit back and chant the SOE mantra of; "Be patient, they have to fix x, y and z first."
I for one am gone on July 31st unless a miracle happens first...and I don't count on miracles in my life.