Smuggler Archive
Thread: Depending On Smugglers
StGabriel wrote:
If someone does wish to address my opinions and comments here and not mount an assault on my character, I still wish someone would take the time to explain me how the proposed "enhanced" contraband systems are to be fun. By any plausible definition of fun.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
StGabriel wrote:
If you truly feel this way then you have yet to actually read this thread.
Hmm, since I'm so "dense", which post was it exactly that provided an argument for why the proposed contraband systems are fun, for me, a non-smuggler?\
StGabe.
Message Edited by StGabriel on 04-01-2004 10:53 AM
I understand what you are saying, that we'd be better off if we asked for things that we could prove would benefit all players no matter their profession, ect. you have to understand some of the frustrations here as we have been nerfed beyond belief...who has given one thought to how the chef revamp has killed our spice sales...it has completely destroyed my spice sales...I went from 10k a crate and not being able to keep it in stock to lowering my prices to 4k per crate and haven't sold a total of 10 crates since the chef revamp...yet we are not all saying hey that screwed me over so I'm gonna quit SWG now. You have to be completely open minded when looking at our situation, don't only think about how it will affect you...as it is a smuggler revamp not a non smuggler revamp we are talking about. I do not however think its cool to say things like you are dense...just childish! If everyone was as open-minded as they were passoinate about this topic we might get something constructive out of it...just my 2 cents
Atreyuu, you're right, flaming is counter-productive but so are StGabriel's posts. Read over them all. All they do is repeat the same thing over and over which paraphrased is, "Your ideas aren't fun. Think of something else." Frankly, that's a retarded thing to say since fun is so relative. Personally, I think a system where I could sneak illegal items through checkpoints and "stick it to the man" would be hella fun. It's the reason I so enjoy playing Deus Ex and it's sequal. It's why I'm normally the guy sneaking around with a pistol in most fps's. I enjoy popping up with something where it's not supposed to be and sticking out my tongue saying, "Haha! I made it past you!" I know I'm not alone with that from the posts on this forum as well as the popularity of games such as: Deus Ex, Thief, Hitman, etc. This is fun for me. The contraband system imposed would bring some of that to SWG.
Now of course, we could have that done as a minigame. The droids could have been made into a minigame also. Chef's could have been delegated to a minigame. Every profession could have been delegated to a minigame. Why wasn't it then? In one word, interdependency. The devs realise, as do smugglers, people want interaction. It's why mmog's are so popular. They give a massive amount of interaction for a multiplayer game. Tell me then, why would it be good to delegate everything to minigames? Tell me specifically why it would be good to delegate smugglers to a minigame. I'm assuming now, everyone sees the need for smuggling to be player based right? Interaction.
Now that the necessity of interaction has been established, you have to see how allowing anybody to smuggle is counter productive to interaction. If anybody can transport illegal products with no penelties, then the need for interaction with smugglers is nullified. Items are already illegal but the penelties for transporting them are rare and an inconvenience at most and a trifle at the least. That is counter productive to having illegal items and therefore counter-productive to encouraging interaction with smugglers.
Do you see now how it COULD be fun Gabriel? Not whether YOU THINK it's fun but how it COULD be fun? Do you understand also the necessity for the what we've outlined here for our revamp to establish that now?
StGabriel wrote:
I think you guys already have your feedback. The devs heard you loud and clear on contraband the last time and disagreed with you. You might want to claim that your concerns were not really voiced, but I think this is simply un-true, and I could dig up a post by Jeassa to back this. You say that there is really nothing to argue about and that's simply not true. Look at the DE's. They "lost" their first round of revamp because the things that they wanted were not feasible. Now by persisting in following the same ideas, they lost a lot of crucial dev time that could have been spent on their profession (and as a result we see that combat droids above CL10 are WAY pushed back). While many DE's may feel that, if they don't get their way, the profession is doomed, that is clearly not true. The ideal held by a certain group may not be reached, but the profession will still work for a lot of other people that are not so set on one particular way of play.
So then what? You want us to emasculate all the ideas on this forum in an attempt to appease the same crowd who constantly tells us we can choose what attribute we slice? You want us to eviscerate the plethora of incredible ideas to appease the same people who tell us the quality of tools makes a difference? You want us to cowtow to the same people who constantly ask for an average on a totally random system? Who knows what's better for this profession? The idiots who haven't the slightest clue about smugglers or the smugglers themselves? If it were purely up to me, I'ld say, "**edit** everybody else!" It's those same people who keep getting us **edit**ed. Thankfully it isn't and thankfully those who have come up with the best ideas are more diplomatic than myself. You claim our ideas lack an effort to compromise? Well, that is simply absurd! The ideas outlined on this board are from an effort to compromise while still allowing smugglers to smuggle. The above paragraph of your post also shows something else which I'll get to in the next paragraph.
I know you guys want a "feel" of illegality and risk. But the thing is, a "feel" for the game only lasts a certain while. The first few contraband scans I had were cool. AFter that they are just an annoyance (can I outrun this scan guy or will I have to bother to kill off a squad of ST's -- gee, free fp's -- and then go find a recruiter sucking up half an hour of my limited play time?). The first few times I went through the Geonosian caves I was absolutely awe-struck. What a cool dungeon. That has faded though. It's still a cool dungeon, but it's now just part of the game. The time has passed that I "experience" the Geo caves and now I PLAY the caves. I think that both smugglers and non-smugglers would find that after experiencing your proposed changes, the actual play stinks.
So basically you're saying, "this system shouldn't be in the game because it will get boring." Well duh. Everything in swg is going to get boring eventually. That's when you quit the game and move to a new one. This combined with your last paragraph, specifically the comment on higher level combat droids being delayed, shows your attitude isn't one of wanting lasting content, it's one of wanting content now. Yes, it would be cool to have higher level combat droids but the proposed ways of implementing them blew. Who wants a bloody Droid Handler profession which is nothing more than a CH with metal pets? Frankly, I'm glad they were delayed as it gives more time to come up with lasting content for combat droids instead of the flavor of the month version that disappears shortly after implementation.
The current contraband system falls under that same catagory of content now. It wasn't well thought out and wasn't implemented well and therein lay the reason for it being boring after a few days. The system we are introducing is a lasting content contraband system. One which would help add depth to the game instead of expanding its already enormous width.
Now I could also go off about instant gratification compared to patience but instead I won't. I'm going to assume it will be dismissed much like my ideas of what is fun.
Raanan wrote:
Atreyuu, you're right, flaming is counter-productive but so are StGabriel's posts. Read over them all. All they do is repeat the same thing over and over which paraphrased is, "Your ideas aren't fun. Think of something else."
I'm 100% with you, like I said StGabriel needs to think about more than just him/herself (not sure which...guessing him though). We just think we need to steer our concentration and our passion on this subject from flamming StGabriel (who doesn't seem very open minded) to more productive things. I would love to have some sort of meanigful purpose as a smuggler....what smuggler doesn't (ok maybe hologrinders could careless)
See, that's the thing. Many of us HAVEN'T been flaming. We've been patiently explaining and re-explaining the same points over and over from new angles, new directions, and with new arguments. Each time, it basically comes down to Gabe saying "But that's not fun. And none of the other players will think so either." Needless to say, some folks are getting tired of explaining.
Ultimately, we have to convince the devs. That's it. Not the players. Not Gabe. The devs. Period. End of discussion. If we convince them, and I mean REALLY convince them, they'll stick with us and will push the system through AND keep it. But therein lies the real question. What do the devs consider fun? Time will tell.
However, to REALLY distill things and try to bring them into a different light, I'm going to offer the following two points:
1.) This is an MMOG (I hesitate to call it an MMORPG, as I don't think any of those truly exist). MMOG means massivly MULTIPLAYER online game. One of the cornerstones of good gaming is interaction and interdependency. You can't do it all on your own and everyone out there in the game world is not playing the game just to entertain you. You SHOULD be strongly encouraged through game systems to interact with them and seek out their unique services. Not necessarily forced at gunpoint, but certainly encouraged.
2.) What we have proposed does not force anything on anyone. It remains an optional system. You can opt-in to using contraband or not. It's your choice. If your calculation is that the benefits of sliced gear, spice, and whatever other neat-o items are so necessary for you to be competitive in combat, then that's your choice. That's also, I might add, more about your perception of the contraband items themselves, rather than the need to go to a smuggler to help you out. You can, of course, try to run blockades yourself. And if you're a big enough badass, maybe you'll even make it through. Maybe you'll even become a notorious criminal, hounded by the authorities and Bounty Hunters across the galaxy for your heinous crimes. "I have the death sentence on twelve systems!" Doesn't THAT sound like fun? Come on. Who doesn't like playing a tough-as-nails bad guy? Regardless, no one's forcing anyone to do anything. It's just creating new layers to gameplay and adding nuances to what's otherwise a pretty dull system. Then again, maybe your definition of "dull" is different from mine. 