Smuggler Archive
Thread: New date for revamp :(
HimFan wrote:
Bzzzz wrote:
I'm halfway expecting to be overlooked in the combat balance because we're not a Combat Class,and then our Revamp will include so much work that if we *do* get anything meaningful, we'll be pretty far back in the non-Combat schedule. 80x20 Rule.Presuming an even distribution, if40 professions need work but 32 of them are really easy to fix, are you going to make everyone wait for the 8 that need major work, or hold the tricky ones and make as many people happy quickly?
If I were running this business (and wanted my customers happy), there's no way I'd fix smugglers first. Smugglers have been lied to enough already, blowing off one more promise wouldn't make them much angrier. Getting all the other easier professions done as quickly as possible though, that makes for lots of happier customers at the expensive of a few.
-Zz (just to counterpoint Geevo the Happy-Smurf)
I understand what your saying. BUT whats stoping them from making a smuggleing system WHILE the upgrade is going on?
The scale of this upgrade is huge and will take many devs to get it done and tested. Even if they could get more devs and work on our revamp at the same time as this, I'd be against it, because managing the two together would be a nightmare and would more likely cause far more delay, confusion and in the end more bad than good.
The unfortunate truth of the matter is that the CU needs to be done first and it needs to be done right, before any profession can be looked at, simply because it's the basis for what everything else works from, namely combat. This is the first time anything of this magnitude has been attempted in a live game that wasn't an expansion and I really think they'd be foolish to not be consentrating on that.
One can only hope that when our turn comes we'll getas much resources devoted to us.
Here's hoping.
The community should pick a date by which they DEMAND their changes be made, and if they aren't made by that point, you do what any rational paying customer does in such circumstances: you take your business elsewhere. I'm not talking about quitting smuggler for some other profession. Do you think SOE cares what profession you play? If this game had nothing but one class (hmm...JEDI maybe???), SOE wouldn't give a rat's ass, as long as the money kept coming in. If you want to make a point, make it in a way they can't ignore. Not server protests, not board protests, but an actual mass quitting of the game.There is so much that needs to be fixed, and the devs keep focusing on adding new instead of fixing old. This has been, in my opinion, THE biggest problem with SWG. Not the GCW, not the fact that smugglers keep getting the shaft (although that's part and parcel of the underlying concerns), but the fact that the gameitself in its fundamentals just isn't solid. They're doing a total overhaul of combat a year and a half after the fact. What does this tell you?
If this isn't the truth I don't know what is. There are so many things in this game that are in need of fixing it is simply inane. How many profs have broken or redundant specials? Hopefully, those issues will be fixed with the combat revamp, but seriously, a year and a half after release? Its simply ludicrous that these things have gone unfixed for so long. I find it appalling that these necessary fixes to combat and the gcw were put off until after JTL. Fix what needs fixing then add new content.
Its like building anapartment complexand renting it out to people. Those tenants soon find out the plumbing and electrical linesare somewhat faulty. On top of that the heating and A/C only work intermitently. The tenants ask you to fix them and you say alright, we'll fix all that but first we are going to build an addition to the complex and install satalite and cable tv. The tenants think - we could use the extra space a new addition would give us and satalite and cable tv is a nice bonus, I guess we can wait for the little stuff to be fixed. So the expansion to the home is finished, and the tenants now begin asking about the little fixes again. You tell them alright, we have plans to fix all those problems, but first we're going to put in a pool first. Its simply ludicrous.
I'm really hopefully that all the upcoming revamps will improve the state of the game. However, I'm extremely disappointed that there has been a need forso manyrevamps and redesigns to core systems. I'mjust soextremely frustrated by all the continued delays to these much needed revamps.
HimFan wrote:
SOETyrant wrote:
HimFan wrote:
This is cool. To bad its another beta thing. I would have liked to see this"Upgrade" on Test Center. This is going to be a free update so why hide it form the whole community?
I would also like to add that is was said that after JTL, us smugglers were going to get some love. Now we are looking at after January.
Quoting from the message: "The final phase of testing will be the open beta testing period we typically do before any major publish. We will put the Combat Upgrade publish on ourTest Center so all customers have access to it prior to it being published to the Live service"
We are approaching this development carefully and methodically. We are starting small because it will need some focused iteration and testing that simply can't be done in a mass forum. We will try our design and implementation in alpha, and as we see it working we will open it up to ever larger numbers of people, taking feedback all along the way. The design as it exists today will change, possibly radically to make sure we have the fun factor SWG should have.
In the end we expect our combat to be "is to make game play more strategic, more interactive and ultimately more engaging and fun for players of all levels". That is what we are committed to, and this is what you should measure the result against.
And unfortunately non-combat professions will need to wait for this to be complete, since the context of the final Combat Upgrade will be what sets our bar for the other profession revamps.
So much for that...
Message Edited by HimFan on 10-29-2004 03:26 PM
You're surpirsed? I called this one 3 months ago. And it was nice knowing all of ya but I think Im going to fill a few packs with some moun stock my vendors one last time, and call it quits. Enough is enough, They can find 900 ways to break things that work, fix things that already worked to help the poor ubere jedis cut through 30 pvpers in one wack, but they cant fix our crates.
I'll have more fun with some TKM/Mfencer with some pistoleer for def say 0044 instead of smugglers only good thing KD
Geevo wrote:
I think we will get some love in the combat revamp ... (the combat portion of our hybrid) ... but the 'real' revamp will be after.
LOL....... I seriously doubt that. But u keep hope alive
Well not to be a jerk but what are u the 3rd? 4th dev assigned to us? I dont think anyone cares if u'd be against it or for it, How about just work on keeping your word? Since going by the Devs promises we should have been revamped about a year ago.
WesBelden wrote:
HimFan wrote:
Bzzzz wrote:
I'm halfway expecting to be overlooked in the combat balance because we're not a Combat Class,and then our Revamp will include so much work that if we *do* get anything meaningful, we'll be pretty far back in the non-Combat schedule. 80x20 Rule.Presuming an even distribution, if40 professions need work but 32 of them are really easy to fix, are you going to make everyone wait for the 8 that need major work, or hold the tricky ones and make as many people happy quickly?
If I were running this business (and wanted my customers happy), there's no way I'd fix smugglers first. Smugglers have been lied to enough already, blowing off one more promise wouldn't make them much angrier. Getting all the other easier professions done as quickly as possible though, that makes for lots of happier customers at the expensive of a few.
We are just going to have to wait and see on this one. Not something I'm happy about, but as I've said before, I'd prefer them to do what they're doing than give us another carrot only to swipe it away from us. We will get a revamp, it's just a question of when.
-Zz (just to counterpoint Geevo the Happy-Smurf
I understand what your saying. BUT whats stoping them from making a smuggleing system WHILE the upgrade is going on?
The scale of this upgrade is huge and will take many devs to get it done and tested. Even if they could get more devs and work on our revamp at the same time as this, I'd be against it, because managing the two together would be a nightmare and would more likely cause far more delay, confusion and in the end more bad than good.
The unfortunate truth of the matter is that the CU needs to be done first and it needs to be done right, before any profession can be looked at, simply because it's the basis for what everything else works from, namely combat. This is the first time anything of this magnitude has been attempted in a live game that wasn't an expansion and I really think they'd be foolish to not be consentrating on that.
One can only hope that when our turn comes we'll getas much resources devoted to us.
Here's hoping.
Solo4114 wrote:
Wes,
Bear in mind the lessons history has taught us. What we have seen is the devs will promise to fix smugglers just after the next big hurdle is covered, only to have a new and more important hurdle placed in our paths. The community is then faced with two options:
1.) Accept that the devs will make changes to the profession, but that they will be more bandaid/bugfix changes than the sweeping change this profession so desperately needs.
2.) Accept that the revamp gets pushed back AGAIN.
Guys, I'm all for optimism, but really, take a look at the situation here. This game was released well over a year ago, and it's STILL got lots of aspects that are basically in beta stage. I know a lot of people like to say "Well, the game's just so big...I mean, you can't expect much more." Yes, you can, and you should. In fact, you should DEMAND more. You should DEMAND a game that works right out of the box. You should DEMAND a game that gives you the basic feel of the environment it's supposed to be emulating. You should DEMAND a game that has a solid foundation upon which to build. Last time I played the game, back when we were at about the 9 month mark, the game didn't have that solid foundation. From what I've seen on the boards since then, it still doesn't.
There is so much that needs to be fixed, and the devs keep focusing on adding new instead of fixing old. This has been, in my opinion, THE biggest problem with SWG. Not the GCW, not the fact that smugglers keep getting the shaft (although that's part and parcel of the underlying concerns), but the fact that the gameitself in its fundamentals just isn't solid. They're doing a total overhaul of combat a year and a half after the fact. What does this tell you?
I'm with you guys, though, in HOPING that it ends up working out great. I'm absolutely with you in terms of HOPING that the game can suddenly give the Star Wars experience I've been longing for. But given the 1.5 year track record of this development team, I ain't optimistic.
So, with that in mind, I say you guys, as a community, set what I like to call a "schmuck date." The "schmuck date" is the date after which, if you are still in the game, you are officially a schmuck.
Pick a date by which the smuggler revamp has to be done. If it isn't done, you say enough is enough and walk. I know it's tough to do, because you want the game to be what you want it to be SO BADLY and because you've put in so much effort and time into the game and maybe you're still kind of having fun (even if the game has nothing to do with Star Wars at this point). But if you're not getting service, why throw good money after bad?
OMG I can't believe they haven't deleted this yet. I post almost the samething here after they screwed us on the crates and they deleted my post. I said Xbox doesn't sell you half a game and then ask you to help fix it. IT WORKS OUT OF THE BOX.
I think most of us already have done this..... Its call the day WoW comes out live. Its basically the same game only better. Which means there is alot to do not just go overt and run around
Solo4114 wrote:
Wes,
So, with that in mind, I say you guys, as a community, set what I like to call a "schmuck date." The "schmuck date" is the date after which, if you are still in the game, you are officially a schmuck.
Pick a date by which the smuggler revamp has to be done. If it isn't done, you say enough is enough and walk. I know it's tough to do, because you want the game to be what you want it to be SO BADLY and because you've put in so much effort and time into the game and maybe you're still kind of having fun (even if the game has nothing to do with Star Wars at this point). But if you're not getting service, why throw good money after bad?
maloso wrote:
HimFan wrote:
SOETyrant wrote:
HimFan wrote:
This is cool. To bad its another beta thing. I would have liked to see this"Upgrade" on Test Center. This is going to be a free update so why hide it form the whole community?
I would also like to add that is was said that after JTL, us smugglers were going to get some love. Now we are looking at after January
Quoting from the message: "The final phase of testing will be the open beta testing period we typically do before any major publish. We will put the Combat Upgrade publish on ourTest Center so all customers have access to it prior to it being published to the Live service"
We are approaching this development carefully and methodically. We are starting small because it will need some focused iteration and testing that simply can't be done in a mass forum. We will try our design and implementation in alpha, and as we see it working we will open it up to ever larger numbers of people, taking feedback all along the way. The design as it exists today will change, possibly radically to make sure we have the fun factor SWG should have.
In the end we expect our combat to be "is to make game play more strategic, more interactive and ultimately more engaging and fun for players of all levels". That is what we are committed to, and this is what you should measure the result against.
And unfortunately non-combat professions will need to wait for this to be complete, since the context of the final Combat Upgrade will be what sets our bar for the other profession revamps.
So much for that...
Message Edited by HimFan on 10-29-2004 03:26 PM
You're surpirsed? I called this one 3 months ago. And it was nice knowing all of ya but I think Im going to fill a few packs with some moun stock my vendors one last time, and call it quits. Enough is enough, They can find 900 ways to break things that work, fix things that already worked to help the poor ubere jedis cut through 30 pvpers in one wack, but they cant fix our crates.
I'll have more fun with some TKM/Mfencer with some pistoleer for def say 0044