Smuggler Archive
Thread: Force Sensitive Smugglers making a killing... Fo Real
Smuggler_Caylin
Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:58 pm
#14
I'll see what I can get from Arjun and the devs on this.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
Smuggler_Caylin
Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:12 pm
#15
Ipseck wrote:
well thats about all the info I have.. I know of some who have luck, but they say it doesn't do a darn thing.
Anyone besides JTGAlpha want to speculate on what this might mean for us? I definately see his point of view and can see it happening, but if you have a tight enough grasp on the market and have contacts with a majority of the other smuggler colonels on the server, I can see it being a boon.
Also someone to verify/debunk that this is actually the case would be helpfull. Caylin wanna give it a shot on TC2 ? I have a human toon there we could use to get you to colonel (if you're not already).
Message Edited by Ipseck on 08-18-2004 08:09 PM
I was hard-core testing on TC2 before the populationlimits. Now I can't login for the life of me 
They also apparently deleted by bria copy of my main toon.
Either way though, I don't have access to some instant training in FS skills to test this out.
SpaceCrazy
Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:25 pm
#16
Ipseck wrote:
Anyone besides JTGAlpha want to speculate on what this might mean for us?
I'll give it a shot. Instead of people asking us if we use the "best quality tools"....wait, scratch that. Bad Example, since quality doesn't matter. Hmm...instead of people not using Slicers because Master is better (especially if the choice of slice ever goes in), we'll have non-FS Master Smugglers losing business in favor of FS Master Smugglers. Those non-FS with good reputations and a good customer base probably won't lose as much business, but they'll lose some nonetheless.
This will be the case for entertainers and docs without FS healing bonuses, and for crafters without FS crafting bonuses. Can you imagine all of the "not enough skill points" complaints that will come up now, since FS skills take skill points (1 point per box, I believe)?
eitario
Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:31 pm
#17
SpaceCrazy wrote:
Ipseck wrote:
Anyone besides JTGAlpha want to speculate on what this might mean for us?
I'll give it a shot. Instead of people asking us if we use the "best quality tools"....wait, scratch that. Bad Example, since quality doesn't matter. Hmm...instead of people not using Slicers because Master is better (especially if the choice of slice ever goes in), we'll have non-FS Master Smugglers losing business in favor of FS Master Smugglers. Those non-FS with good reputations and a good customer base probably won't lose as much business, but they'll lose some nonetheless.
This will be the case for entertainers and docs without FS healing bonuses, and for crafters without FS crafting bonuses. Can you imagine all of the "not enough skill points" complaints that will come up now, since FS skills take skill points (1 point per box, I believe)?
yeah its one point per box, the novice and master dont cost
be interesting to see the outcome of this..have a toon on TC2 but i am gated and waiting to see if they irone the bug out tomorrow so i can try to at least get the first box of persuasion.
Ipseck
Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:32 pm
#18
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Ipseck wrote:
well thats about all the info I have.. I know of some who have luck, but they say it doesn't do a darn thing.
Anyone besides JTGAlpha want to speculate on what this might mean for us? I definately see his point of view and can see it happening, but if you have a tight enough grasp on the market and have contacts with a majority of the other smuggler colonels on the server, I can see it being a boon.
Also someone to verify/debunk that this is actually the case would be helpfull. Caylin wanna give it a shot on TC2 ? I have a human toon there we could use to get you to colonel (if you're not already).Message Edited by Ipseck on 08-18-2004 08:09 PM
I was hard-core testing on TC2 before the population limits. Now I can't login for the life of me
They also apparently deleted by bria copy of my main toon.
Either way though, I don't have access to some instant training in FS skills to test this out.
its only one tree in one of the primary fs clusters tho.. once you hit 'fs' you should be able to pick these up relatively quickly. I hear ya on the being able to get on tho :-/
MaxSteele
Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:50 pm
#19
JTGAlpha wrote:
This game can get quite competitive on every level.
Yeah, we wouldn't want a game to be competitive....
Message Edited by MaxSteele on 08-18-2004 10:50 PM
OdiousEncounter
Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:29 pm
#20
Does anyone know of a thread that lists what exactly the skills are known to do so far? I'm curious about vehicle control...
HOTDOG
Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:13 am
#21
I had "Luck" when I was testing pub 9 way back and I saw absolutely no benefit whatsoever BUT that was before I knew that you get better loot more often for having it.
I tried to log on TC2 last night but the server was down and I have a LOT of pistol XP to gain if'n I'm gonna master smuggler by the time pub 10 hits (I earned enough for "Low Blow" last night- That puts me at 0 4 3 1- WOOT!:smileygrin
.
Personally I'll unlock in order to have a second character to make better role play (I'll play Tevin's brother or sister- I've even thought about playing a character that will truly "die". Maybe Tevin's Brother or sister will die!
I don't really care too much about the FS abilities though. I think their improvements are so minor that it will be insignificant. I mean, It's not that difficult to add more speed to your melee defence or ranged attacks- I would be faster at Two Handed if I mastered Brawler than if I used those points for the FS melee speed ability.
Truly, I think the FS boxes MAIN agenda is to level everyone's effort towards unlocking out- so they don't feel cheated for mastering (x) number of professions for no reason- but that's just me.
On the plus side Smugglers DO get a bonus as far as getting the combat FS abilities- since combat xp exchanges 1 for 1. All that extra combat XP sitting around from leveling Underworld and Dirty Fighting ought to do us well
.
I tried to log on TC2 last night but the server was down and I have a LOT of pistol XP to gain if'n I'm gonna master smuggler by the time pub 10 hits (I earned enough for "Low Blow" last night- That puts me at 0 4 3 1- WOOT!:smileygrin
.Personally I'll unlock in order to have a second character to make better role play (I'll play Tevin's brother or sister- I've even thought about playing a character that will truly "die". Maybe Tevin's Brother or sister will die!
I don't really care too much about the FS abilities though. I think their improvements are so minor that it will be insignificant. I mean, It's not that difficult to add more speed to your melee defence or ranged attacks- I would be faster at Two Handed if I mastered Brawler than if I used those points for the FS melee speed ability.
Truly, I think the FS boxes MAIN agenda is to level everyone's effort towards unlocking out- so they don't feel cheated for mastering (x) number of professions for no reason- but that's just me.
On the plus side Smugglers DO get a bonus as far as getting the combat FS abilities- since combat xp exchanges 1 for 1. All that extra combat XP sitting around from leveling Underworld and Dirty Fighting ought to do us well
.
DRWolfe
Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:08 am
#22
First we have to confirm the bonus. I hate to be a pessimist, but I can't see there being anything for Smugglers in there. We're just not on the Dev's radar.
Speaking of which, Slicing XP wasn't even in the list until everyone noticed it missing, and at the current trade-in ratio, have fun slicing 76,500 weapons/armor to (just) get the Novice Senses box and Persuasion tree.
Finally, the Combat trade-in ratio is currently 3 to 1, so not so good as before...
Speaking of which, Slicing XP wasn't even in the list until everyone noticed it missing, and at the current trade-in ratio, have fun slicing 76,500 weapons/armor to (just) get the Novice Senses box and Persuasion tree.
Finally, the Combat trade-in ratio is currently 3 to 1, so not so good as before...
MaxSteele
Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:07 pm
#23
JTGAlpha wrote:
Not the point Max. Because the game is SO competitive templates become mandatory. Look at PvP. FotM is barely a choice. If you want to compete you have to have one of a handful of templates.
Without being FS you won't be ABLE to compete in the market, and so, in essence, this could concieveably CHOSE your template for you. Do you want that?
I"m not complaining that the game is competitive. Competitive is fine. Competitive is good. But the devs aren't thinking HARD enough about that aspect and giving us trump cards that force EVERYONE to have the same hand or they can't compete, taking the diversity out of having so many templates to choose from. Such is part of why we're having a Combat Balance and Revamp. To remove such things AS FotM. This change will force people to be FS to compete in the market, if it does indeed do what it says it does.
This isn't about too competitive. This is about not managing that competition.
Thanks for the one-star, from whoever did it. Just because you don't agree with a reply doesn't mean to one-star it...
I understand what you're saying JTG, but as it is right now, you have to be a Master Smuggler to compete with other Master Smugglers in thefactiongame. Does this mean that the other smugglers who aren't Master can't compete? Is this forcingeveryone to become Master Smuggler to be able to compete? Probably, but that is a decision for the player to make. And then there are penalties for races.. So does this mean everyone is forced to be Human? Again, competition...
What would you like JTG? That every smuggler is able to give every player the maximum savings on faction, regardless if they're Master or not? I really hope not. If Force Sensitivity gives any type ofextra factionbonus, that will add another level of competiiton above Master. Ifa playerfeels they have to be the best smugglerthey can be, then they would need to take those FS skills in order to 'compete'. Otherwise, they'll be 'just another Master Smuggler'. That's what competition is all about. Matching other people in skills and abilities to be 'the best'. In that competition, some people will be better than others.
Of course, everything we're discussing right now is completely theoretical, because no onewill knowif FS skills will affectfaction bonusesat all until it goes live.
Message Edited by MaxSteele on 08-19-2004 03:15 PM
JTGAlpha
Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:18 pm
#24
I understand what you're saying JTG, but as it is right now, you have to be a Master Smuggler to compete with other Master Smugglers in thefactiongame. Does this mean that the other smugglers who aren't Master can't compete? Is this forcingeveryone to become Master Smuggler to be able to compete? Probably, but that is a decision for the player to make. And then there are penalties for races.. So does this mean everyone is forced to be Human? Again, competition...
Actually...they can't really. But as this is a smuggler skill then as a MASTER smuggler I should be better at it, just like slicing. The addditions for humans and bothans are minor and NOT widely known, so theyre not really an issue. Besides...you can't change your race, so unless you want to reroll entirely that's a different ball of wax.
What would you like JTG? That every smuggler is able to give every player the maximum savings on faction, regardless if they're Master or not? I really hope not. If Force Sensitivity gives any type ofextra factionbonus, that will add another level of competiiton above Master. Ifa playerfeels they have to be the best smugglerthey can be, then they would need to take those FS skills in order to 'compete'. Otherwise, they'll be 'just another Master Smuggler'. That's what competition is all about. Matching other people in skills and abilities to be 'the best'. In that competition, some people will be better than others.
Yes, but this is an advantage of HUGE proportions, and the consequence isn't competition, but changing the pre-reqs of doing business at all. It's not that they are better at it than you, it's that they are SO much better at it than you as you cannot compete. If the lowest I can sell for is 110 credits per point and the lowest they can sell for is 55 credits per point how do I compete with that? I can't. There IS no competition. FS will be a pre-req to selling faction points. That's going outside the profession. That'd be like offering smuggling bonuses in, well, FS. And it's not like I can just SPEND the skill points to compete right back either. I'd have to get a FSCS. Which may have been a matter of effort before, back when it was a stupid, ugly, predictably grind, but NOW there's no telling HOW you do it other than badges are somehow involved. So, the inevitable consequence, if this IS indeed true, is that if you want to sell faction points you'll HAVE to be force sensitive, and that's not how I'd like to see this profession go. I'd like to be about smuggling, not template stacking. That sort of mentality has RUINED PvP, just ask the PvP'ers. You have to be a riflemen, fencer, or CM, for the most part to even compete (though, somehow combat smugglers still hold their own). And when you're talking about a BILLION dollar business that is fickle as all get out (the GCW just is NOT a stable market, people get sick of it off and on, plus combat changes, etc etc), that such a huge trump will make ALL the difference.
Let me put it to you this way....how many people under slicer do you see slicing weapons and armor for money. Should you have to be Force Sensitive to slice? I just don't want to see this game, specifically our profession turn into "Force Sensitive Wars" or KOTOR.
PS: Actually one stars ARE for posts you disagree with...and no, it wasn't me.
JediArashi
Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:45 pm
#25
I think you both bring up good points, and it's something to keep an eye on.
As far as the bloke who was disputing a FS Smuggler, I think Caylin wrapped it up nicely, and if you want another example you can look to Mara Jade. During her time with Talon Kardde as part of his smuggling ring she used her FS as a "danger sense" to help them be one up on their enemies and customers. Being able to tell when a supplier is lying to you, knowing when to duck that sucker punch, etc. are all good reason to be a FS Smuggler.
I have since I started reading about SWG way back when the website first launched had intended to be a FS Smuggler. Even though pretty much everythign has changed...that goal has not. I can't wait for the chance!
-Arashi
Bloodfin
Oh and this Rebel Bothan Master Smuggler hopes to get to Colonel so that when he does get FS he can rake in the cash!! WooT!
MaxSteele
Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:03 pm
#26
JTGAlpha wrote:
PS: Actually one stars ARE for posts you disagree with...and no, it wasn't me.
Just hijacking the thread for a moment:
If a person gets enough one stars, that message is 'removed' from view for anyone that has the star rating system on. So I don't see one-starring reserved for disagreeing with someone. I see it as a way to get rid of flaming and off-topic posts (exactly like this one. ) I would expect this message to be one-starred, but not a message that contradicts or goes against what someone else says.
I'll post a reply on the rest of your message when I have the time. Hard to think when a 1 1/2 year old is tugging at your pant leg.