Smuggler Archive
Thread: Wes, please answer when you have a moment :)
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Chemistrius
Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:28 pm
#14
Jaspor wrote:Good stuff, Tomo!
And thanks, GM! Good luck with stuff!
What's scary though is that the most reassuring message in weeks from anybody related to the game comes from an ex-SOE employee, rather than one of their own people.
Sheesh.
I'm gona have to agree with you on that one.
Jaspor
Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:15 am
#15
Good stuff, Tomo!
And thanks, GM! Good luck with stuff!
What's scary though is that the most reassuring message in weeks from anybody related to the game comes from an ex-SOE employee, rather than one of their own people.
Sheesh.
WesBelden
Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:51 am
#16
Er, from the SOE/SWG side of things, I have no idea (although I'll attempt to point Tiggs in the direction of this post in the hope of an answer).
As for GM's words, very kind of him to comment, I'm sure many of you will feel a little less trepidacious given his comments on the designers still at the Austin office.
Props to Tomo for getting in touch with GM btw, you old scoundrel
Yeh, not too comfortable with that one myself
.
As for GM's words, very kind of him to comment, I'm sure many of you will feel a little less trepidacious given his comments on the designers still at the Austin office.
Props to Tomo for getting in touch with GM btw, you old scoundrel
Jaspor wrote:Good stuff, Tomo!
And thanks, GM! Good luck with stuff!
What's scary though is that the most reassuring message in weeks from anybody related to the game comes from an ex-SOE employee, rather than one of their own people.
Sheesh.
Yeh, not too comfortable with that one myself
.
TomoRainer
Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:42 am
#17
Missed this one earlier somehow.
In case it was unclear, I do think there are still a number of good devs left. I'm just sad to see one as great as GM go, and figured it couldn't hurt to let him know a lot of us felt the same way. Never hurts to let someone know you thought well of them.. particularly if you're kinda wondering if they have anything to say about everything.
Glad to see he's still going to be in the MMO business, too.
In case it was unclear, I do think there are still a number of good devs left. I'm just sad to see one as great as GM go, and figured it couldn't hurt to let him know a lot of us felt the same way. Never hurts to let someone know you thought well of them.. particularly if you're kinda wondering if they have anything to say about everything.
Glad to see he's still going to be in the MMO business, too.
riotcontrol
Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:12 pm
#18
Since the subject is "Wes, please answer...", here goes (for both Tomo and Wes):
Are Smugglers really such a joke even in the Correspondent forums? I stumbled upon this from Tanks:
"Did I say no list? No, what I said is when devs ask for Top X issues they get the Top issues that are doable and/or game breaking. Of course, I guess I could keep asking for a revamp similar to Smugglers instead of incremental changes that have the same effect over time, you want to wait 2+ years for improvements?. You have no idea on the number of debates and posts on the corr. forums that resulted on us getting names from Seekers, ditto on the offline Jedi on terms issues, or the /offerride changes."
It was quite surprising to see him say something like that... so what I'm wondering is... is this really the "new" general attitude? Something along the lines that Smugglers are spoiled brats who keep asking for too much and are to blame themselves for everything so no one should even think about repeating the same mistake and "asking" for a revamp?
Are Smugglers really such a joke even in the Correspondent forums? I stumbled upon this from Tanks:
"Did I say no list? No, what I said is when devs ask for Top X issues they get the Top issues that are doable and/or game breaking. Of course, I guess I could keep asking for a revamp similar to Smugglers instead of incremental changes that have the same effect over time, you want to wait 2+ years for improvements?. You have no idea on the number of debates and posts on the corr. forums that resulted on us getting names from Seekers, ditto on the offline Jedi on terms issues, or the /offerride changes."
It was quite surprising to see him say something like that... so what I'm wondering is... is this really the "new" general attitude? Something along the lines that Smugglers are spoiled brats who keep asking for too much and are to blame themselves for everything so no one should even think about repeating the same mistake and "asking" for a revamp?
TomoRainer
Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:00 am
#19
I haven't seen anything to suggest that's a widespread belief.
And despite the fact Tanks is a very effective correspondent, I think his statement there is built on a faulty assumption. Incremental changes can be made to BHs because they had a bounty hunting system from the very beginning. A very rudimentary system, yeah, but a system nonetheless, a foundation that could be built on one brick at a time.
Smugglers, however, never had a foundation. Nothing was illegal in any meaningful sense, nor were there any mechanics set up to deal with illegal material once introduced. So there wasn't really a way for us to have gone one step at a time; what we really needed--smuggling--would have to be introduced all at once. It's not so much that we needed a "revamp" as that we needed a vamp, so to speak.
Also, due to the fact there was BH stuff there from the start, and that it was a popular profession both because it was initially powerful and iconic, it was able to create a positive feedback cycle for itself, one wherein many players were BHs, making it a good business move to add more content to the profession, which in turn attracted more players to it, which in turn made it an even better idea to keep giving it love (and, in fairness, the occasional nerf), etc. That it's sort of the game's ying to another extremely popular profession's yang only helped this process. The size and number of the jedi/BH debates on the corr forum is only a reflection of how locked in the two professions have become in terms of their impact on the game.
Smugglers and a few other professions that didn't have much going for them from the start, meanwhile, would continue to get less attention, both because giving them the dev time they needed would be a huge amount of work and because the population of those professions declined, or at least stayed relatively low. Negative feedback cycle ensues.
That's not to say those underbuilt profs never get attention--the CH changes en route look pretty kickass, maybe just what that profession needs after a long time languishing--but until you see that initial foundation laid down, what can you do? Tweaking FD or making spices better, while improvements to the "smuggler" profession, doesn't exactly let us smuggle. In terms of what we actually want--smuggling and contraband and various illegal junk--I don't see what kind of incremental changes could possibly be made.
So Tanks can be pleased the methods he uses seem to be effective at drawing change, but it's just not an apt comparison. One step at a time is a great philosophy for progress over time, but you need legs before you can walk.
And despite the fact Tanks is a very effective correspondent, I think his statement there is built on a faulty assumption. Incremental changes can be made to BHs because they had a bounty hunting system from the very beginning. A very rudimentary system, yeah, but a system nonetheless, a foundation that could be built on one brick at a time.
Smugglers, however, never had a foundation. Nothing was illegal in any meaningful sense, nor were there any mechanics set up to deal with illegal material once introduced. So there wasn't really a way for us to have gone one step at a time; what we really needed--smuggling--would have to be introduced all at once. It's not so much that we needed a "revamp" as that we needed a vamp, so to speak.
Also, due to the fact there was BH stuff there from the start, and that it was a popular profession both because it was initially powerful and iconic, it was able to create a positive feedback cycle for itself, one wherein many players were BHs, making it a good business move to add more content to the profession, which in turn attracted more players to it, which in turn made it an even better idea to keep giving it love (and, in fairness, the occasional nerf), etc. That it's sort of the game's ying to another extremely popular profession's yang only helped this process. The size and number of the jedi/BH debates on the corr forum is only a reflection of how locked in the two professions have become in terms of their impact on the game.
Smugglers and a few other professions that didn't have much going for them from the start, meanwhile, would continue to get less attention, both because giving them the dev time they needed would be a huge amount of work and because the population of those professions declined, or at least stayed relatively low. Negative feedback cycle ensues.
That's not to say those underbuilt profs never get attention--the CH changes en route look pretty kickass, maybe just what that profession needs after a long time languishing--but until you see that initial foundation laid down, what can you do? Tweaking FD or making spices better, while improvements to the "smuggler" profession, doesn't exactly let us smuggle. In terms of what we actually want--smuggling and contraband and various illegal junk--I don't see what kind of incremental changes could possibly be made.
So Tanks can be pleased the methods he uses seem to be effective at drawing change, but it's just not an apt comparison. One step at a time is a great philosophy for progress over time, but you need legs before you can walk.
SmugglerPie
Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:57 am
#20
And all we have are bloody little nubs... it's pathetic, really.
TomoRainer wrote:
... but you need legs before you can walk.
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