Smuggler Archive
Thread: Cantina Crawl XII = Bunch of Whiners
Orcajum
Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:41 am
#14
Javier, to use a colloquialism in my praise, that video was "off da hook!"
If i were ever fortunate enough to walk into a player cantina and see even 1/4 of that activity from live players, I'd drop half a million credits just for the opportunity to experience something along that level. That must have been a blast to put together, and my only whine is that, as a smuggler, I have yet to take part in an activity like that yet. Cheers to you, and good luck getting rid of the buffbots. I don't know about anyone else, but I usually pay double to get buffed by a live player just for the conversation and social feel.
Anyone else find it at all odd, however, how much SOE billed the entertainer professions as something new and special about SWG that no other MMO had, yet fails to support them properly?
If i were ever fortunate enough to walk into a player cantina and see even 1/4 of that activity from live players, I'd drop half a million credits just for the opportunity to experience something along that level. That must have been a blast to put together, and my only whine is that, as a smuggler, I have yet to take part in an activity like that yet. Cheers to you, and good luck getting rid of the buffbots. I don't know about anyone else, but I usually pay double to get buffed by a live player just for the conversation and social feel.
Anyone else find it at all odd, however, how much SOE billed the entertainer professions as something new and special about SWG that no other MMO had, yet fails to support them properly?
darmokVtS
Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:42 am
#15
Korrack wrote:Perhaps they look at us as whining too?
If you want to know an honest answer, the answer is "yes" :-).
After playing quite a bunch of professions (playing, not grinding for holos, I don't want a Jedi) my personal list for a schedule of profession-revamps would be like this
Dancer, Musician, Squad Leader, Ranger, Smuggler
The first two in any order ofc.
The Reasons are simple, dancers and musicians have the well known problem with AFK buffbots etc, and another quite 'important' thing IMHO, an elite profession that just offers ONE unique ability that the starter profession does not have shows quite some serious lacks in it's implementation (the mind or mind-substats buffs are this single unique ability, all other things they can do are just things they can do better than the starter profession)
Squad Leader has several 'unique' abilities, however most of them are kinda pointless, some semi-useful but attached to so many issues that it's debatable if they are worth using and erm... /formup to remove dizzy from the whole group, tadaa, ONE ability that is really useful.
Ranger, easily. it's scout 2.0, one unique ability above scouts (areatrack), all else is the same stuff in 'a bit better', in one case it's 'the same effect with more hassle and the same results' (camo vs scout's maskscent).
And then there's smuggler...
Discounts for faction items (including GCW bases, turrets etc), the ability to buy factionpoints, slicing of items, a couple of combat moves (that are admittedly not all useful and some only useful with the right 'sideskills' but well.. ranger isn't useful AT ALL without the right 'sideskills'
). spicecrafting (it's not the get-rich-quick scheme some want it to be, however spices seem to still sell good enough to see a smuggler vendor that I know a bit run out of stock quite regularly).And you all think *your* profession is the one that needs a revamp most urgently
. 'Smuggler' is a quite well defined profession with one core problem, it has the wrong name.I might want to get in touch with a Doc now, I sense I'll need some fireblanket-treatment soon
.Message Edited by darmokVtS on 11-09-2004 11:57 AM
SigmaXIII
Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:26 am
#16
you cant fault anyone who makes a valid point in an entertaining way
Daturaze
Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:52 am
#17
Darmok nailed the issue right on the head.
Since the game has come out the devs have essentially been a Triage unit for the last year. You find the most serious problem, the problem that affects the most people and deal with that, so in line with Darmoks posts, and considering what a combat rebalance/buff nerfing may look like it becomes apparent that the classes that will most need a revamp first will be Entertainers followed by Squad Leaders (since after buffs become reduced, group hunting will become more needed again)
After that, you can really take your pick.
With that said, I'm not suggesting that we meekly acccept "Sorry Smugglers, but we need to revamp dancers first - but you understand right?" Nope, I say we shout just as loud as we ever do, who knows maybe they're hire more devs <laughing hysterically to self>
Cheers
Dat
Bzzzz
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:41 am
#18
TsN-Wizzer wrote:
Hey Kettle!! This is Pot.
Really, whining about whining. 
-Zz
Korrack
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:46 am
#19
darmokVtS wrote:
Korrack wrote:
Perhaps they look at us as whining too?
If you want to know an honest answer, the answer is "yes" :-).
My statement there was more or less rhetorical
Okie has been a Master Entertainer and Master Musician (not for hologrind by oddly during the hologrind) and I currently have an alt that is working towards Master Dancer. But I rarely log her on as lately I have been busy with my baby and feel bad afk macroing even when it's not for XP, so I tend to either not log in, log off if I am on as my dancer, or log in Okie and /afk in a chair in the cantina.
I'm only afk if something comes up I need to attend to, so you could say, I'm a member of the choir
DigiDante
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:59 am
#20
SigmaXIII wrote:you cant fault anyone who makes a valid point in an entertaining way
Hear Hear!
Bzzzz
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:09 am
#21
WOW. Although I disagree with the poster's original point-of-view, I'm really glad that he brought it to our attention, as otherwise I probably would've missed it. This is outstanding work!! An incredible piece of "onlife" filmmaking, but with a substantial call to arms behind it. This is exactly the sort of way to thoughtfully present their problems and get their message heard, and I sincerely hope that this gets them enough visibility to force changes to be made. And as a player that's occasionally visited ent-bots in the past, I'm happy todo my part nowand avoid them in the future.
I challenge us to present our issues this effectively, although I don't see how it could be done. The best film I envision would start dark, and silent.. maybe with a few Soloesque sound-bites garbled in the background, and then the lights would come up on a couch, with the stereotypical smuggler sitting there smoking quietly, but otherwise not doing much.. of anything. Maybe the scene could fade to black and he'd whistle in the dark?
Lame, I know.. but that's pretty much what my experience as a smuggler has been. I suppose I could overlay a milleu ofquotes from bitchy customers or something?
-Zz
Ashinae
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:21 am
#22
I used to spend hours in the cantina, healing, buffing and socializing. Cantina life has dwindled so much, now days everyone heads to Coronet where there is an AFK master dancer/musician buffbot who does 125% Dancer and Musician buffs (or something like that). I wouldn't know what his numbers are because I never visited him myself. People seem to rather go up to the buffbot and shout "invite please" rather than see a live dancer or musician.
I heard rumors a while back about the development team putting a stop to repeating macros. But it never happened. Instead, I read about the developers actually promoting macros even more, and having the overall effect of encouraging AFK gameplay.
Javier videos is an inspiration to me and makes me want to bring Ashinai out even more often than before.
I wonder if there are even enough live entertainers in the Wanderhome galaxy to even fill a player cantina.... What say you Wanderhome?
Bzzzz
Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:11 am
#23
Ashinae wrote:
I heard rumors a while back about the development team putting a stop to repeating macros. But it never happened. Instead, I read about the developers actually promoting macros even more, and having the overall effect of encouraging AFK gameplay.
I recall this too, and I think that an enormous sigh of relief was felt all throughout the galaxy when this proposal was dropped. It was a silly band-aid fix for ent-bots, and it would've half-stopped them at the expensive of every other single profession.
Anyway, wildly off-subject. Like a lot of people, I'd love to see AFK-ent-bots done in, preferably with stronger AFK restrictions (more aggressive AFK-flags and monitors, no xp gained while AFK is active, etc.). Better yet,give Entertainers tools to improve their services beyond what AFK-bots can provide, and the issue will resolve itself entirely!
-Zz
hrmpf2
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:53 pm
#24
I've started to feel the pain of entertainers, lately I've spent quite some time with some just chatting, these were of course ATK ones (well, doh! Not even I am stupid enough to chat with AFK'ers ). This usually takes place in a cantina, mostly Coronets in this case, there's the bots, apparently the number is climbing as for about a month ago I'd never noticed one, sunday there were 4 or 5 "fixed" bots. Surely the ATK entertainers do have an ordience, but much of the time they just stand around, maybe lucky enough to actually have someone to talk to, but surely not getting any sort of action from the game, nothing, just standing. Now, if people were forced to interact with entertainers, I'm sure most would also find them a pleasent sidetrack from whatever they do on the side, yet with AFK and even worse bots, you can always have your BF and mind wounds fixed, you don't have to do any effort at all. Furthermore, recently I asked them what sort of bugs they experience, well, crate pulling is a small thing in comparison.
Quite frankly, us smugglers aren't as "broken" as it sometimes sound, we're just outperformed or have somewhat useless skills. Spice work, but are mostly useless due to chefs and buffs. Dirty fighting works (tho, mostly useless unless you use pistols), FD has some issues, but these are mostly PvP oriented, the PvE agro part doesn't bother me too much, only it seems to collect auto deathblows if eventually incapped. Slicing works, simple as that. Since I've yet to have any use of the underworld branch, I can't speak from experience, but again, I do now understand Lekku, and some claim to makes loads off selling FP, so it does work.
What we mostly need isn't exactly fixes, more from the above improvement and usefulness of entire branches. Underworld, the recruiter is happy to take bribes until he suddenly notices you have more than 500 FP, bleh. I can talk to Jawas and understand Lekku, bleh. I don't mind the state of slicing, but would like to choose speed, damage, encumbrance or effectiveness. Dirty figthing, I only use FD, rest of the branch is utter useless to my template, I'd like to see "general combat type improvements", currently you're locked at pistoleer or uselessness. Spice, what a crock of anti-drug campaign, yes, I sell a few pixies (1 a day), booster blues (1 a week) and muon (2 a day), then take a few shots of them myself to forget, just how utter useless they are once buffed by docs and the bots real entertainers are.
). This usually takes place in a cantina, mostly Coronets in this case, there's the bots, apparently the number is climbing as for about a month ago I'd never noticed one, sunday there were 4 or 5 "fixed" bots. Surely the ATK entertainers do have an ordience, but much of the time they just stand around, maybe lucky enough to actually have someone to talk to, but surely not getting any sort of action from the game, nothing, just standing. Now, if people were forced to interact with entertainers, I'm sure most would also find them a pleasent sidetrack from whatever they do on the side, yet with AFK and even worse bots, you can always have your BF and mind wounds fixed, you don't have to do any effort at all. Furthermore, recently I asked them what sort of bugs they experience, well, crate pulling is a small thing in comparison.Quite frankly, us smugglers aren't as "broken" as it sometimes sound, we're just outperformed or have somewhat useless skills. Spice work, but are mostly useless due to chefs and buffs. Dirty fighting works (tho, mostly useless unless you use pistols), FD has some issues, but these are mostly PvP oriented, the PvE agro part doesn't bother me too much, only it seems to collect auto deathblows if eventually incapped. Slicing works, simple as that. Since I've yet to have any use of the underworld branch, I can't speak from experience, but again, I do now understand Lekku, and some claim to makes loads off selling FP, so it does work.
What we mostly need isn't exactly fixes, more from the above improvement and usefulness of entire branches. Underworld, the recruiter is happy to take bribes until he suddenly notices you have more than 500 FP, bleh. I can talk to Jawas and understand Lekku, bleh. I don't mind the state of slicing, but would like to choose speed, damage, encumbrance or effectiveness. Dirty figthing, I only use FD, rest of the branch is utter useless to my template, I'd like to see "general combat type improvements", currently you're locked at pistoleer or uselessness. Spice, what a crock of anti-drug campaign, yes, I sell a few pixies (1 a day), booster blues (1 a week) and muon (2 a day), then take a few shots of them myself to forget, just how utter useless they are once buffed by docs and the bots real entertainers are.
Datink_Nieleft
Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:20 pm
#25
Hmm..I thought that they just re-evaluated the idea and did not implement it yet?
Datink_Nieleft
Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:30 pm
#26
TsN-Wizzer wrote:
Ok, I am not sure how many of you Pay Attention to the Cantina Crawl Videos. they are Pretty cool and have a Good following.
But......
Their Latest has got to be the Biggest Load of Whinning I have seen.
Basicly it's Them Complaining That The devs Keep chaning their Prof and how they don't Like the changes.
Wouldn't it be nice if a Dev Did ANYTHING to Smuggler?
/Sigh, I think I will make a Video to "Smuggler's Blues" Next Show all the Crappy Stuff Smugglers Have to deal with.
Did you watch the same video??? The Dev's keep changing their prof alright and did MORE to ruin it!!! Could you even begin to imagine what AFK slicing would do to us??? The one "money maker" we have built into our prof,..automated.
Biggest load of whinning? Have you surfed through ALL the forums?? What Javier made was a statement of facts about a often overlooked profession. After viewing the vid, I made a male dancer on Euro-Chimaera,...4 hours of at-the-keyboard-dancing. For my time and effort I recieved 0 credits. That was just the tip of the iceberg as far as the problems I could see.
Here's a suggestion:
Go make a male dancer on another server.
Sit at the key board and study what profession you are doing. Start at Mos Eisley cantina then go to Coronet.
STAY at the keyboard through your ENTIRE play session.
Rewatch that video.
We as Smugglers should support our fellow players, especially those prof's that are just as FUBAR as ours is.