Smuggler Archive

Message Edited by ARC_Casper on 01-20-2005 10:12 PM

I still feel that the crackdown on illegal goods and the crackdown on rebel players should be separate features... with the crackdown on contraband being handled by planetary customs agents like I suggested in my contraband revamp proposal. I'm not saying that I feel that's exactly how it needs to be done, but I am saying that I feel it's a good basic idea that would effectively require players to have Smugglers transport their contraband for them. As far as the Imperial crackdown on Rebel players, I think that picking random players and flagging them overt isn't the best way to approach it. The devs have repeatedly said that they don't want forced PvP, and if you get turned overt by wandering NPCs, that's effectively what's happening. And yes, I know you can avoid Imperial towns, but while that's possible, it's not practical. The Imperial Crackdown should not force fighting on coverts who are just going about their business, but it should give overt rebels or TEF'd rebels a reason to flee from an Imperial city with all due haste if they find themselves on the wrong end of the crackdown without backup. I've got some ideas on how this could be accomplished, but it's late and I'm not writing that much right now... maybe tommorrow.

This patch is hugely important and I'm pretty disgusted that it was nerfed so badly already. Maybe they're just playing with the numbers, but if the devs don't pull the accordions out of their spines and put a little threat back into the galaxy, my hopes for any meaningful smuggler revamp are going to shrink to such infinitesimal size it will require a particle accelerator to even verify they exist.

Smugglers require danger. If there's no drawback to breaking the law, there's no reason to deal with professional lawbreakers. I really hate to use the term, as a lot of the time it's thrown around when there are serious issues of what's fun and what's not, but the people complaining loudest about this are huge, pink, plushy, heart-bellied Care Bears. It's not hard to avoid Stormtroopers if you pay attention to where you're going and know anything at all about a city's layout, which tend to have multiple entrances and routes from one place to another. Don't want to have to stop reading the forums and actually pay attention as you cruise into Mos Espa? Think it's too much of a hassle to avoid heavily Imperial cities, or just to take a little care as you're running around one? Then excuse me; that cracking sound is my middle finger breaking from overextension, because we smugglers need a system that will kick our asses if we get careless when, God willing, we're running spice for Jabba. The GAME needs danger beyond a bunker and a Corvette. It's been nothing but glitter and popsicles for far too long.

It's one thing to complain about instadeath to thirty STs camped in front of a starport. It's another to complain about getting hassled for carrying illegally modified weapons, crates of drugs, or being a terrorist. Ideally, these scanners would be weak enough that if you run right away, you can escape, but strong enough that to stand in a fight against them, you'd better either be a stupendous badass or have a lot of friends. Ideally, these scanners would not let us Imperial officers off the hook every time they snag us off our bikes. But now that this patch is in the works, it needs to be done right--for the good of the future of smugglers and of the game at large--because if they back off too far on it here, I don't see why they'll ever give it a third shot. And if there's no penalty to crime, there's no reason to be a smuggler.

Tomo, with all do respect to you and those who 5 *'d you, you're way off track...

What they did with the 200k ham mobs 2 days ago isn't hugely important to anything. As others pointed out nothing at all has changed about the numbers of scan teams*, the general feeling of living under a crackdown, or as SpinningCloud noted, would create a new situation where a player would even think about having a smuggler with them. Sure maybe my smuggler would fail a few less times whle driving between my player city and bestine, but that doesn't change anything...


* there may be more out there after the servers been up for 3 days, since less players will be able to just drive around killing them like they're kreetles.

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HOTDOG wrote:

It's apparent that they ARE listening to us to even try this though.

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Ragnaat wrote:
Tomo, with all do respect to you and those who 5 *'d you, you're way off track...

What they did with the 200k ham mobs 2 days ago isn't hugely important to anything. As others pointed out nothing at all has changed about the numbers of scan teams*, the general feeling of living under a crackdown, or as SpinningCloud noted, would create a new situation where a player would even think about having a smuggler with them. Sure maybe my smuggler would fail a few less times whle driving between my player city and bestine, but that doesn't change anything...


* there may be more out there after the servers been up for 3 days, since less players will be able to just drive around killing them like they're kreetles.

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That just makes it worse. So the danger level hasn't really been increased, yet people are still moaning to the point where the scan teams have been nerfed back to impotency?

I'm not up in arms because I believed the original patch was perfect or that it suddenly made smuggling viable. I'm up in arms because this is the first time in a long time they've done anything to add risk to being a criminal, and if they back off right away like this, what it tells me is the chances that it'll ever be truly risky to be a smuggler are approaching zero at a rate so fast it breaks several physical laws. I'm up in arms over what this patch and the way it's been handled represents and the precedent it sets for future changes, not what it is.

We've waited patiently for a fix since the start of the game. I wasn't expecting any changes like this till after the CURB and had accepted that. But now that it's here, they had sure as hell better get it right.

I don't know why they even bother to put the scans in if they're going to put them in at such a level as to be a joke.
The scans need to be present enough, and risky enough to change how people play, or create different avenues of play, but not ruin it being impossible to survive or horribly inconvenient. I definitely think they're easy enough to avoid as they are now, and contraband is a reward for those willing to take a risk, not a right for everyone to have. The reward should be worth the risk, and the risk should be high enough to validate the reward you get.
Every single person shouldn't be running around with spice and sliced armor. I don't want to hurt our slicing business, and whatever possibly meager spice business might be left... but it should definitely be a tradeoff. Safety from scans, or that extra boost to you and your gear, at a cost. Pick one. Make the scans strong enough that choosing contraband is not a clear advantage, just a viable alternative. Vice versa.

Right now, the scans are little more than a gnat of a nuisance than anything. Making uber stormies isn't going to fix what's wrong with them, and the current "contraband" system.

I think scans should be fairly commonplace in major cities, at regular and realistic checkpoints like starports, cantinas, city gates, to give a feeling of law enforcement, a source of risk, and make contrband feel like contraband. But, there should also be outposts on the planets that are individually aligned. They would rarely or probably never be scanned by the Empire.

For instance, a small Hutt Starport out in the middle of Tatooine, far away from the regular cities, and the Imperial scans. Of course, there needs to be the all-important tradeoff. There's a small spaceport that Jabba has set up, but there's no shuttleport. You can get planetside, but you're going to have to travel on your own to get anywhere else on Tatooine. You'd need a certain amount of positive Jabba faction to land. Alternately, or in addition, there could be fees for using Jabba's facilities. The lower your faction, the higher your fee. Even if you fly your own ship, you have to pay Jabba to land and take off at his place. Regular shuttles to fly there (for the sans JTL folk) should be harder to come by, and not fly on the regular shuttles out of spaceports--it would have a longer wait time for a Jabba-destined shuttle to leave from the Mining Outpost on Dantooine, because Jabba's shuttles aren't part of the regular "public transit" runs. Especially since there's talk of dropping the wait time to 60 seconds... bring in special destination shuttles with the old school 10 minute wait period. Jabba's shuttles wouldn't run everywhere. He might avoid Imperial cities entirely, or places that already belong to a rival criminal faction, like Nym's on Lok. Maybe Jabba's shuttles would avoid city starports entirely, and the only way to fly Jabba would be to go to one of his little outpost Starports on certain planets, or land yourself there from space. Sorta like you can land at Jabba's palace or the Emporer's retreat now.

There could be Rebel space outposts, Corsec, Nym, Valarian, and so on.


And that's just one alternative to carrying contraband, and avoiding scans.

Wilderness scans should be rare, or confined to areas near outsposts. The Empire isn't going to waste too much time on trolling the plains to hassle random citizens when they can get them in the cities. Only people with high visibilty should have a higher chance of a random wilderness scan, like Jedi with high visibility. Put a "visibility" counter on people who get caught in scan. The more often you get caught, the more you'll be investigated as a repeat offender. Make the scans possible but not easy to escape if you get busted. But a nice "visibility" score on that counter for people who do escape.

And of course, CorSec, RSF, and other security forces in cities should be scanning as well, not just the Empire. Another way to get busted is to undergo downer affects within a certain radius of a law-enforcement NPC. A guy walking nonchalantly down the street in Coronet isn't going to attract as much attention as somone who's puking his guys out, and acting spiced out of his mind. This will encourace treating spice like a drug, and using it carefully. Clearly, this is contigent upon a spice revamp, making them worth the risk.

And what happens when you get scanned and fail? Rebels get a TEF, and spice gets confiscated. Depending on how much they have, and what their rank is they may get attacked. Sliced weapons and armor are a fine. Contraband or enemy faction visibility.
Neutrals get heavily fined, spice confiscated, and criminal visiblity.
Imperials lose rank, and faction. Lose their spice, pay fines on their sliced armor. Perhaps earn a temporary hit to faction rates for promotions and faction perks... a probation of sorts. Have scan teams with various ranks. If you rank higher than a scan leader, you can try to order them to leave you alone, at a nice cost of faction. Perhaps whatever your rank is, with the possibility to go into the negative. (Word gets out that you're a corrupt officer, you have to bust your butt to clear your name/earn trust back) If you rank lower, you get the regular penalties. Visibility counters could apply here as well. Get busted for scans enough, even if you order them off, and your CO is gonna find out about it eventually.

My 2 cents.
I should get back to work now.

Message Edited by Kamileon on 01-21-2005 02:48 PM

In terms of game play, how does this effect Imperials? I mean, as dirty rebel scum I’ll be turned overt instantly (or get TEF for just shooting them) get killed by uber-trooper and his gang of fast responding Stormtroopers. Clone, go get ANOTHER buff and do it again just trying to get to my player city or if I’m lucky, just get hurt really bad.

Imperial players on the other hand are inconvenienced by loosing faction or a fine. They keep there buff, and if they are high enough rank, they can slap a trooper or two for annoying them.

This is game balance? At this point, I’m dropping Reb and going Imp, I have seen the error of my ways and apologize for my sins against the all-mighty Empire. After AT-ST’s, the ‘uniform/helmet debacle’, shielded and hyperdrive capable TIEs, and Bomber Strike 2 & 3, why be a Rebel? The X-wing rocks, but you don’t see many soloing corvettes (and if you do, you’re the exception, not the rule). At some point there should be a level of standard play, and making things harder for Reb’s with only the high-end players in mind is the wrong way to do it. The crackdown was hard enough, everyone’s not a Master L337, and the galaxy shouldn’t rotate around them. Mr. L337 should be kickin’ @$$, he earned it (or bought it, whatever) and grinded his way to the top of his game. Mr. ‘I just got M Marksman W00T’ shouldn’t have a guaranteed a trip to the clone chamber if he gets scanned. Oh wait, they are already like that for him. My bad.

The faction penalties/fines for Imps should be harsh. Much like in the US Military when a soldier/sailor/airman/marine breaks the law, punishment is swift and harsh. For higher ranking Imps, it should be expensive to ‘cover-up’ the mistake OR it should be confiscated for ‘there own welfare’. After all, there just lookin’ out for there fellow Imperials. Now, the crackdown means something. It means that Imp WOII or higher over there with his sliced T-21/Power Hammer, sliced armor, and pockets with a crate of moun gold will have a reason to find a M Smuggler to group with before hitting the outback of Dantooine to grind.

Course that’s just my opinion.