Smuggler Archive
Thread: The Lack of Announced Player Based Smuggling Missions
riotcontrol
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:37 pm
#14
NickHeel wrote:I think we're all on the same page that we want player Smuggling, we just need to think a minute before we snag "what we can" and forget about it. But, if like Arashi said, it comes down to them putting us on hold or us getting this? Well, sadly, I have to say take it and run. I can't wait another 8 months
If they go and implement this 'incomplete' system, do you really think the general playerbase won't get that 'OMG smugl0rz got teh revamp in publish 15 and their still whining!!111?!1 OMG CRY MORE1!!!' attitude whenever another improvement is proposed?
DrevenStrobe
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:42 pm
#15
I've gotta say that I disagree. The pre-P-9 proposal was a laughable shadow of what was posted today.
I'm happy with the direction the new documents move us in, and see alot of our input in the new documents.
Granted, with NPCs in place of where we wanted some actual players, but still moving in the right direction. I'll be happy to work with the NPC system until some sort of viable Player-2-Player system can be worked out. But, for the time being, there's just not a viable P-2-P solution that I can see...the mechanics just aren't there.
However, with the implementation of this proposed NPC system, I can see where the mechanics might eventually work for a P-2-P system in the future.
And, I'm just blown away by the new Slicing system. It's sort of a variation on the "Slice Experimentation" system that I proposed a LONG time ago. I'll be interested to see how that gets fleshed out. Granted, it may make Slicing more time consuming, but I think it'll also create a more specialized type of Slicer than we currently see with the existing system.
Overall, I'll give the new stuff a B+. It's good, but still has the potential to be better.
yimaz
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:46 pm
#16
I agree 100%. I like this system alot and its a good starting point but it is also only NPC, this is why I asked (no responce as of yet) if we were going to have a shot at player smuggling. I think we should have this NPC system and its sold but we should also have some sort of player smuggling. I feel /maskfaction and or mask jedi are the way to go for player smuggling but as far as player cargo Im at a lose for a balanced system (not that one is not out there) /shrug
JWing
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:50 pm
#17
DrevenStrobe wrote:I've gotta say that I disagree. The pre-P-9 proposal was a laughable shadow of what was posted today.I'm happy with the direction the new documents move us in, and see alot of our input in the new documents.Granted, with NPCs in place of where we wanted some actual players, but still moving in the right direction. I'll be happy to work with the NPC system until some sort of viable Player-2-Player system can be worked out. But, for the time being, there's just not a viable P-2-P solution that I can see...the mechanics just aren't there.However, with the implementation of this proposed NPC system, I can see where the mechanics might eventually work for a P-2-P system in the future.And, I'm just blown away by the new Slicing system. It's sort of a variation on the "Slice Experimentation" system that I proposed a LONG time ago. I'll be interested to see how that gets fleshed out. Granted, it may make Slicing more time consuming, but I think it'll also create a more specialized type of Slicer than we currently see with the existing system.Overall, I'll give the new stuff a B+. It's good, but still has the potential to be better.
your right on target...
we need to stop KICKING a gift horse in the mouth
Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:56 pm
#18
Smuggler - Smuggling Experience
Overview
The smuggler's life is defined by danger. He is paid to be discrete, to
avoid conflict, and to get his goods delivered on time. In the Star Wars film,
we see Han Solo use his abilities to smuggle people through an Imperial blockade
and we hear stories of his previous trouble with angry employers.
avoid conflict, and to get his goods delivered on time. In the Star Wars film,
we see Han Solo use his abilities to smuggle people through an Imperial blockade
and we hear stories of his previous trouble with angry employers.
This experience will be introduced to Star Wars Galaxies through a
smuggling quest system. Smugglers will move contraband from one location to
another, with enemies at their heels and only their chosen companions and their
trusted ship to aid them.
smuggling quest system. Smugglers will move contraband from one location to
another, with enemies at their heels and only their chosen companions and their
trusted ship to aid them.
- This looks great!
(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
- Couple of points here I wonder about in regards to
features based on this overview.
- You mention experience and quests.
- Will skilltreesbe needing this new
type of 'Smuggling Experience' in order to progress?
- If so, which ones do you see it being applied
to?
- Will skilltreesbe needing this new
- You mention the ability to Smuggle people.
- Will this be realized with the smuggler revamp?
Thus giving a player interactive role for our skills?
- Will this be realized with the smuggler revamp?
- You mention blockades.
- These are really going to exist?
- Will smugglers be potentiallybetter at it
than other pilots?
- These are really going to exist?
- You mention trusted ships.
- Will we be able to make the 'special
modifications' that made our ships so trusted?
- Having the best equipment possible didn't make
the millenium that special, it's the tweaking and modifications Solo
made that contributed to it being such an impressive vessel in
canon.
- Having the best equipment possible didn't make
- How much smuggler related content will be
exclusive to players who purchased Jump To Lightspeed?
- Will there be enough smuggler
relatedcontent on the ground for players without the
expansion?
- Will we be able to make the 'special
- You mention experience and quests.
- Couple of points here I wonder about in regards to
Receiving a Smuggling Contract
Instead of using the terms mission or quest in game, we will refer to a
smuggling assignment as a contract. A smuggler will receive a contract and goods
from one of his contacts. Contracts are available at any time, but a smuggler
may only have one open contract at a time. Fictionally, we assume that most
smugglers will be asked to transport moderate sized loads of goods and that the
contacts don't like smugglers to have mixed priorities (or increased exposure to
interdiction).
smuggling assignment as a contract. A smuggler will receive a contract and goods
from one of his contacts. Contracts are available at any time, but a smuggler
may only have one open contract at a time. Fictionally, we assume that most
smugglers will be asked to transport moderate sized loads of goods and that the
contacts don't like smugglers to have mixed priorities (or increased exposure to
interdiction).
Smuggling contacts will be placed throughout the SWG world. There should be
at least one contact per planet. Some space stations will also serve as
contacts. Contacts will be associated with certain neutral factions as well as
GCW factions:
at least one contact per planet. Some space stations will also serve as
contacts. Contacts will be associated with certain neutral factions as well as
GCW factions:
- A contact who works for Jabba could be located at Jabba's Palace.
- A contact for the Empire might be found in Bestine.
Each contact will have 3 contracts available at any one time. The list of
potential contracts will come from a large datatable of goods and delivery
destinations. The system will mix and match goods & delivery destinations
and destinations will be graded by difficulty. For example, a contact may have a
load of giggledust for Anchorhead, a load of explosives for Mos Eisley, and an
encrypted data disk for an anonymous pilot in orbit around Dathomir. Every 24
hours, the contact's script will pick 3 new contracts (to keep each contact
interesting).
When the system goes live, we can have it slowly dole out emails to
smugglers telling them where contacts are. "My name is Kulgrim the Finn and I
hear you are smart and discrete. We'll see. I have a package that needs to be
delivered. Come see me at the cantina in Mos Entha." Etc.
smugglers telling them where contacts are. "My name is Kulgrim the Finn and I
hear you are smart and discrete. We'll see. I have a package that needs to be
delivered. Come see me at the cantina in Mos Entha." Etc.
Once a player receives a contract, they have a certain amount of time to
complete it in. The time will depend on the difficulty of the mission. The time
might span from 1 hour to several days.
complete it in. The time will depend on the difficulty of the mission. The time
might span from 1 hour to several days.
- Awesome.
- NPC contacts instead of terminals is
perfect.
- Different Factions acting as contacts is right
on.
- Will we see criminal contacts and reputations
being more involved now? Will I care that I have -5000 thug faction or
will that still not matter?
- Will there be potentially 'legal' methods for
smuggling? CorSec needing to get information or a person away from a
criminal situation for example?
- I assume this can be expanded easily to be very
interactive with the GCW or any other future developments?
- Will we see criminal contacts and reputations
- E-mail/Contact progression.
- Will smugglers be able to 'graduate' to different
contacts after proving a certain amount of skill in that area? "These
missions may be a bit easy for you, try looking up an old friend of
mine..." or will it be more direct?
- Meaning if you have the skill you can just walk
up to the guy and ask for work instead of 'proving'
yourself.
- Meaning if you have the skill you can just walk
- Will smugglers be able to 'graduate' to different
- Will there be a possibility of 'special' missions
with an increased amount of risk vs reward over standard
missions?
- NPC contacts instead of terminals is
Delivering the Goods
Delivering the goods won't be as easy as walking (or flying) from point A
to point B. Smuggling is illegal after all. The smuggler will face several
challenging events that will try to obstruct their progress. Events will be
pulled out of a datatable and a smuggler may face more than one during the
course of carrying out a contract.
to point B. Smuggling is illegal after all. The smuggler will face several
challenging events that will try to obstruct their progress. Events will be
pulled out of a datatable and a smuggler may face more than one during the
course of carrying out a contract.
The kind of events the player will face will depend on whether he is in
space or on the ground, the composition of his group, and the difficulty of the
contract. Some examples of smuggling events are:
space or on the ground, the composition of his group, and the difficulty of the
contract. Some examples of smuggling events are:
- Looks very nice!
- You mention composition of his group.
- This mean we will be encouraged if not required to
bring friends with us to complete some of these missions? If so, that
sounds great!
- What type of changes in interaction will we find
with a different group composition?
- In the event a mission is that difficult, will the
smuggler be aware that going alone may not be aprudent course of
action?
- In a group, will rewards be spread out among those
who participate?
- In a group, will they also be subject to
punishment for involving themselves with an illegal
activity?
- This mean we will be encouraged if not required to
- You mention composition of his group.
Ground Events
- A rival smuggler wants the contract and thinks he can take the goods from
the player. After an exchange of words (and potential skill checks to smooth
his way out of it) a battle ensues.
- Thugs from a rival faction arrive to shake up the smuggler a bit and
convince him to stop dealing with his current contact.
- Storm troopers (or whatever planetary occupying force) appears to perform
a convenient "routine scan." Maybe they've been tipped off…either way it
smells fishy and a fight might ensue.
- I like how you are putting in 'exchange of words' that
is wonderful.
- I notice on the rival smuggler encounter you say 'a
battle ensues'.
- Is it inevitable? Will our persuasive use of words
(and possibly credits) sway the possibility of such an encounter?
- Will group composition have a factor in regards to
our 'exchange of words' ?
- Is it inevitable? Will our persuasive use of words
- I notice on the rival smuggler encounter you say 'a
Space Events
- Pirates enter the sector and try to take the delivery by force.
- Similar events to those under ground, but in ships instead of on foot
(rival smugglers, etc).
- So to be sure, will dialog options will still exist in
space?
- I don't see a mention of blockades here. So as
mentioned before, will they reallyexist?
Getting Paid
Once the smuggler arrives at his destination with the goods, he'll want to
be paid. Successful completion of a contract is worth credits, but also a
portion of the goods delivered. This system will replace the current method of
crafting spices. In the new system, the smuggler will pick up a load of spice
and deliver it, receiving a crate of spice and a few credits as payment. The
type and quantity of spice (or any other reward) will depend on the difficulty
of the mission.
be paid. Successful completion of a contract is worth credits, but also a
portion of the goods delivered. This system will replace the current method of
crafting spices. In the new system, the smuggler will pick up a load of spice
and deliver it, receiving a crate of spice and a few credits as payment. The
type and quantity of spice (or any other reward) will depend on the difficulty
of the mission.
- HUZZAH!
- No more spice crafting!
- Will groups have a factor in reward payout?
- You mention 'or any other reward'
- Don't suppose you could elaborate
here?
- Don't suppose you could elaborate
- No more spice crafting!
Option: Failure to Deliver
This is an optional system in which failure to deliver the goods on time
results in repercussions. Each time the smuggler fails to make a delivery, they
receive a "deadbeat" point. Each deadbeat point has a drawback:
results in repercussions. Each time the smuggler fails to make a delivery, they
receive a "deadbeat" point. Each deadbeat point has a drawback:
- 1st Point: Reduced reward for completing their next contract.
- 2nd Point: More reduced OR no reward for completing their next contract
depending on the level of the Smuggler
- 3rd Point: NPC bounty hunter randomly dispatched to take the smuggler out.
(No reward for a successful contract.)
- 4th Point: Powerful NPC bounty hunter randomly dispatched to take the
smuggler out. (No reward for a successful contract.)
Successful completion of a contract reduces the deadbeat count, so a
smuggler would have to blow off several missions in a row to become
hunted.
smuggler would have to blow off several missions in a row to become
hunted.
Generally, smugglers aren't going to blow off a mission without reason.
Events will create opportunities for betrayal and failure. A rival smuggler NPC
might be pacified if the smuggler gives up their contract for a small fee. A
corrupt Imperial patrol might be willing to let the smuggler go if he shares
some of his delivery. An interested third party might offer a better price. The
idea is that the player can risk long term reprisal for short term gain.
Events will create opportunities for betrayal and failure. A rival smuggler NPC
might be pacified if the smuggler gives up their contract for a small fee. A
corrupt Imperial patrol might be willing to let the smuggler go if he shares
some of his delivery. An interested third party might offer a better price. The
idea is that the player can risk long term reprisal for short term gain.
That's why we reduce the reward given to smugglers for their first few
points of going deadbeat: once they start down the path, it becomes more
profitable to continue to be a cheat and risk the bounty hunters.
points of going deadbeat: once they start down the path, it becomes more
profitable to continue to be a cheat and risk the bounty hunters.
- I like how the penalties progress very much!
- Will some missions generate more 'deadbeat' than
others if failed? Or is it a step-by-step progression?
- You mention NPC Bounty Hunters.
- I worry about reducing the role/value of the bounty
hunter profession by having their profession defining ability represented by
an NPC. It makes sense to have a non-pvp bounty hunter encounter, but it's
still their defining role in the game that I don't want to infringe on
lightly.
- Will there be a chance for 'epic' quality bounty
hunters to appear? Such as Fett or IG-88?
- I worry about reducing the role/value of the bounty
The primary things that I have any real concern
over.
over.
- Player interaction that involves our skills as a
smugglers seems to be very limited if not completely nonexistent here.
- I think Wes stressed the importance of being
involved with the playerbase very clearly and I want to echo that concern.
Much of this appears to be an 'on the side' experience that keeps us
occupied with a PvE experience that I believe does a great deal for our role
in the game,yet it'shardly involved with the actual players of
Star Wars Galaxies.
- Are there plans to include a role for smugglers to
interact and work for the players?
- I think Wes stressed the importance of being
- Consternation by the bounty hunter population that
their role is being infringed on by NPC versions of their profession. I think
Tanks should probably weigh in here with how he feels on that score.
- Law Enforcement.
- While not the province of this mission experience of
smugglers, it's pretty important to the overall feel of a legally enforced
criminal penalty and the general criminal experience.
- While not the province of this mission experience of
I really enjoy this document and it is very encouraging
in the belief that there are great things coming to the game.
in the belief that there are great things coming to the game.
What I've written aboveis what I initially posted for feedback in the
c-forum.
c-forum.
Now I can completely agree that the lack of player interaction is
disturbing but I hope you will note some of what I outlined in that document.
First, they mention player smuggling and wanting to bring about that experience.
While that is not outlinedin the document, that's what they said in the
overview. Second, they are apparently encouraging group interaction on some of
these missions. So while we may not have at this point what appears to be
smuggling for other players, it seems we can at least get other people involved
with our content. It's not the same, but it's better than nothing. At least we
are including other players.
disturbing but I hope you will note some of what I outlined in that document.
First, they mention player smuggling and wanting to bring about that experience.
While that is not outlinedin the document, that's what they said in the
overview. Second, they are apparently encouraging group interaction on some of
these missions. So while we may not have at this point what appears to be
smuggling for other players, it seems we can at least get other people involved
with our content. It's not the same, but it's better than nothing. At least we
are including other players.
The framework for this is, as Dreven mentioned, MUCH better than what they
presented us at Publish 9. It's more dynamic and it is *easily* expanded on in
the future, from what I can tell. Slicing is much the same way. So I won't
toss this into the same category as the Publish 9 disaster. I find it to be much
better, particularly in the hopes of integrating this and the combat
upgrade.
presented us at Publish 9. It's more dynamic and it is *easily* expanded on in
the future, from what I can tell. Slicing is much the same way. So I won't
toss this into the same category as the Publish 9 disaster. I find it to be much
better, particularly in the hopes of integrating this and the combat
upgrade.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Ipseck
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:59 pm
#19
I think that if sufficient illegal items (contraband) and sufficient penalties + consistent checks are put into place, player smuggling will take care of itself.
cpz
Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:05 pm
#20
Fromthe noisesAuraboron's been making in the GCW forum, smuggling seems to be an extension of the GCW, in terms of moving factional items onto faction-controlled planets.
NickHeel
Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:07 pm
#21
I do like the slicing system proposed. Love that.
I do like the NPC Smuggling system...need more info, personally.
And I was comparing the Publish 9 fiasco to the fact that no actual Smuggling for other people was mentioned. This is why I didn't include the travel system (60sec shuttles and insta JTL travel fix), slicing point, and I suppose I should have taken the combat side out.
Maybe I'm greedy or have higher expectations than I should, but I just can't imagine Smuggler without any player based Smuggling. But that's just me, I don't speak for anyone else 
I am afraid of what Arashi said, that suppose this is what we get. Thumbs up, I like it. But then we're sitting around for an indeterminent amount of time asking to legitimately Smuggle for other people.
Don't mistake what I'm saying, please
NickHeel
Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:20 pm
#22
Edited thread title to more clearly show what I'm trying to explain.
SmugglinZane
Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:33 pm
#23
You know Nick, I agree 100%. But there's a huge difference in the game that gives even me optimism for the future. Allow me to explain:
1. The game has been progressing in ways in the last three months, for better or for worse, that appear to carry it in a direction that we will be able to still do this someday.
2. The GCW Revamp would almost be a better place to address a contraband system since the scanning authority stems from that anyway. If I wanted to actually speculate, even an underworld expansion/publish would be a good place to put it in. What this point comes down to is two thing. A system like that would be incredibly complex and is probably more than just a revamp. The other point is that putting it in as part of the Smuggler Revamp would cause people to blame us for something that should be in game anyway. It would be misunderstood. Let's let them put a contraband system in with something else so it doesn't get nerfed by people claiming that the Smuggler Revamp is too powerful.
3. The BH mini game. That thing was bugged to hell and back at launch. We know there's more than likely going to be quite a few bugs in our system when it comes out. I'd like to see us work that system up and down a little so people don't wind up on the BH terms because their missions were all bugged.
4. We are now basicly looking at a profession at launch. Because we are so behind the evolution of other professions, it will take a little while for us to catch up. I certainly hope that through future publishes the system unveiled today will be expanded. The ground work will be laid and we won't need devoted patches to expand the content.
Now I can't believe I'm defending the Dev team on this one, but I guess I am. These docs give me hope for the future, but there are still answers I would like to have. Is this just the beginning, or is this the end game for the Smuggler profession? Can we look forward to expanded player interaction through our profession abilities in the future? And last, but probably most important, do they have any intention of ever having a meaningful contraband system?
I know the Publish 9 thing caused a lot of people to quit. I still wish a lot of those guys were around today. I do think however that even they would have a different, even if only slightly different, view of things as they are given to us today based on what's been happening lately.
There's still a lot of questions to answer, and there's certainly a long way to go to reach our overall goal, but today I feel comfortable in saying the Revamp (as long as it goes in as previewed) brings us a lot closer to that goal.
JediArashi
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:24 pm
#24
SmugglinZane wrote:
<snip>
I know the Publish 9 thing caused a lot of people to quit. I still wish a lot of those guys were around today. I do think however that even they would have a different, even if only slightly different, view of things as they are given to us today based on what's been happening lately.
There's still a lot of questions to answer, and there's certainly a long way to go to reach our overall goal, but today I feel comfortable in saying the Revamp (as long as it goes in as previewed) brings us a lot closer to that goal.
I agree 'Zane...completely. I want to be clear about my stance. This is great. Truly. Better then the Publish 9 stuff? Yes, absolutely, but not a huge diversion from the outline of what was going to happen.I think this truly does lay down the foundation for what we need.
The point that I am emphasizing is that we should make whatever attempts we need to in order to nudge the devs into thinking about player 2 player smuggling, and having the player interaction that we all want. If they are laying this foundation now, it is better for them to know that we want a second floor to the house before they build it to only support one. You know whatI mean?
I'm not trying to put the cart before the horse, nor amI naive enough to think they don't know we want player 2 player smuggling, but we can still encourage and introduce systems and ideas that will further the goal.
I have no expectation that we will get player 2 player smuggling when this goes to code. However there are steps that can be taken, and ideas jotted down that would give it to us sooner then later.
NickHeel
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:29 pm
#25
JediArashi wrote:
The point that I am emphasizing is that we should make whatever attempts we need to in order to nudge the devs into thinking about player 2 player smuggling, and having the player interaction that we all want. If they are laying this foundation now, it is better for them to know that we want a second floor to the house before they build it to only support one. You know whatI mean?
I'm not trying to put the cart before the horse, nor amI naive enough to think they don't know we want player 2 player smuggling, but we can still encourage and introduce systems and ideas that will further the goal.
I have no expectation that we will get player 2 player smuggling when this goes to code. However there are steps that can be taken, and ideas jotted down that would give it to us sooner then later.
Exactly
JWing
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:32 pm
#26
NickHeel wrote:
JediArashi wrote:The point that I am emphasizing is that we should make whatever attempts we need to in order to nudge the devs into thinking about player 2 player smuggling, and having the player interaction that we all want. If they are laying this foundation now, it is better for them to know that we want a second floor to the house before they build it to only support one. You know what I mean?
I'm not trying to put the cart before the horse, nor am I naive enough to think they don't know we want player 2 player smuggling, but we can still encourage and introduce systems and ideas that will further the goal.
I have no expectation that we will get player 2 player smuggling when this goes to code. However there are steps that can be taken, and ideas jotted down that would give it to us sooner then later.
Exactly
man that would be the icing on the cake....