Smuggler Archive

Now my question is, when no one seems to be against the idea

(provided the smugglers are compensated, which is very fully

covered in my friends thread which i've refered to often in this

thread) why isn't it being instituted? i mean, they hunt jedi and the

main prolems that come up involv greifing, but with smugglers

having no XP to lose this shouldn't even be an issue.

There is a similar thread on the BH forum, and they all seem for it

as well, with similar concerns of smugglers lack of power, again

that is covered deeply in the thread mentioned.

My question is, while smugglers are clamboring for some new

content: What is holding this idea back?

Oooh, this question again.

Until we have some measurable compensation, no way. There's no reason to be a smuggler NOW, if they just add more risk or danger, it'll just be a hassle. Once we get meaningful (ie profitable) smuggling missions, and BHs are the penalty of failure, then absolutely!

Risk is great. As long as there's a reward. There's no reward now.

-Zz

well even if the odds are a little against the smggler even after the additions suggested in the thread, would that be so bad? It just makes a win all the more exciting and besides, you won't lose all that much by dying and it resets your visibility

I,ll take anything other then what we got right now.The fact of the matter is our Spices suck and slicing is so random to the point of stupidity,that anything diffrent for us would be a breath of fresh air...brine the Bounty Hunters..i just want TRUE smuggeling no matter what risk are involved!!!!

There are some great ideas out there, and it's just frustrating that it seems an eternal wait to even hear any feedback on even the possibility of it ever occurring.

It's surely not even that hard a thing to do, is it?

Give us timed delivery missions with stealable loot. If we fail the missions, we become targets...simple as that, surely...?

oooooooooooooooooo
Colonel Narayan Darkfly (RIP)
Master Smuggler
Eclipse

The Awful Truth [now santized for family friendly fun]: One Two Three Four Five Six

It would all have to do with how we actually got on the terminals.

If it was just from doing what we do now, slice, spice, sell faction...then no...not enough reward for the risk.

If it was via a quest, with a tangible reward for survival then yes. Thats how you solve the problem of PVE vs PVP smugglers. Non-PvP smugglers would simply not take the quest(s) that put you on the terminals.

-Gooney

well, it would help keep slicing in check, and would allow you to sell your spices for more and the extra money you can get from slicing terminals is nothing ot scoff at, i know from experience.

but as for smuggling missions, that is also covered in the thread i mentioned and yes they would also give you bounty hunter terminal visibility

as it is now...we'd stand a chance against BH if they had to be MBH to get missions on smuggler...cause if its only 3000 BH like it is for jedi, we'll be getting owned hardcore...not to mention gank squads. Do you really wanna rely on panic shot or last ditch lol. if they give us somthing good to fight with then maybe we could take BH with 3000 and whatever melee stuff they have.

issenor

sim

lowca

Issenor
SIM
lowca

funny but true:
http://www.leftcorner.com/swg/comic1.jpg

I didnt like most of his profession specificideas. The system ideas were ok but don't really get at what the true problems with the game are nor do they go very far to re-implementing "fun". Hes addressing unimportant issues like decay and repair...I mean is this really that big of a problem? I dont think so, its a system that could definatly be better but its hardly a make or break issue.

I agree in principle with the Buff issue. Not the solution. He is absolutly right that doc buffs are way overpowering. Doc buffs coupled with even normal quality armor imbalances the PVE aspect of the game so much that its not fun. There is ZERO risk to missions with huge payouts (30k+).

On the profession side, hes got a novel idea about TKAs, which he seems to think that they are too good. Of course this perception is based on an inherently flawed buff/armor system. TKA is a wonderfully balanced class if you try playing it un-buffed or only buffed with food/spice. Which is the case for most professions that Ive played. Ive been playing a while and never did get into the holo-grind; none-the-lesssuffering from overpowering curiosity I ended up playing a wide variety of professions, actually playing them...not mastering and just dropping,I played them long enough to see if it was somthing I wanted to do. I cant presume to tell folks what is wrong with their favorite profession unless I have played it for enough time to form an "end game" opinion.

Basically all of his ideas to do with combat professions are based upon this flawed idea (how things are now with Buffs/armor). These professions if they are to be balanced at all have to be evaluated without doc buffs and uber armor or with modified doc buffs and re-evaluated armor. In short; the combat revamp has to happen first.

I agree with what he says about scouts and rangers in regards to camps. Camps have been all but removed from the game if not in fact but in practice. Again what causes this is the uber doctor buffs which negate any need for "field medical" attention and the ability to pull pets/droids/vehicles without a camp.

Im amused by his BE/CH statements...this is obviously a fellow that has no idea of what a BE is or does. The pets that a BE makes a BE cannot use. They are the "item" crafter for CH's. BE pets should be slightly superior to wild pets otherwise you destroy the whole point of being a BE. A BE does not exist solely to make suppliments for other crafters.

His Smuggler post is also amusing. Hehe the left line is fine indeed! . He had some cool mission ideas but nothing that hasnt been better thought out or explained here in the smuggler forums.

General crafting and resource gathering. Spawns have to be randomized and have to shift, otherwise they would be forever dominated by a very small population of crafters/miners. What your friend fails to understand is that some people like mining, and spend a lot of thier time finding good spawns. Organics do already in fact work as he seems to think they should. A hunt master can harvest more than a novice scout. Of all the problems with the games resource collection is the least of them. Again you can not make it so that stronger enemies have better resources than weaker. Reason being is that most crafters have very little combat skills. Stronger enemies generally harvest for more of a specific resource so that balances out the risk/reward. Meaning that some people focus on organic harvesting and have a template to reflect that...I did this for several months as a ranger, I had a list of clients that I would recieve orders from then hunt until I could fill it. Fun for me, fun for them, I got what I wanted (creds, deals on armor; they got what they wanted...a dependable provider of raw resources).

Armor does need to be nerfed, it has to be re-evaluated so that people have a reason to choose different types. Now there are only two choices ubese or comp. Thats just stupid and its due to the imbalance created by doctor buffs.

Basically all of the professions own "State of the Profession" papers do a far better job of listing and evaluating the real and percieved problems of their own profession.

To fix the game or not "fix" but to bring balance and fun back to the game will require the combat revamp. Until that is done all talk about professional adjustments are meaningless, we have no idea how things are going to shape up and trying to fix professions at this stage would be an error of epic proportions.

-Gooney

well, he's banned and thus can't respond to your comments but i think i can help a little

first of all, i think it's very rude to call a document that i saw him work on for weeks a crackpot claim, and that it shows that your interest is in fact TRYING to discredit the writer (as opposed to his intention, which is merely trying to improve the quality of this game for all players),but hey that's just me. As for it being "painfully obvious" he lacks knowledge about the majorit of proffessions, well not only is that presumptuous but i assure you it isn't true, and that will be discussed below.

regarding all of the problems that you stated weren't large problems, you have to understand that problems like decay vs. repair effect different people different amounts, and that particular issue would effect a role player in much more devestating ways, as their items can have sentimental value, and i know it's just a game, but its no less of a game than any sport and sports starts riots all the time. so on this topic try to see it from the perspective of a role player, which Musashi is not in this game, but has still tryed to take it into concideration. problems like this have subtle effects on your mindset when you play the game, these little effects add up. you have to look at a great game like a work of art rather than a program to achieve a purpose, if you disagree with that, well then your going to be doomed to play games for a little while, get sick of them, and drop them forever. a great game never becomes obsolete, you just have to take a break from it.

now in regards to what proffessions he's played, i'm pretty sure he has a good veiw of all of the proffessions, regardless of whether or not his suggestions about them are right. i've seen him play through a good majority of all of them, and i must also state he did not hologrind either, but merely took his time having fun, many proffessions he even avoided because he wanted to save them for last, like CH which he knew would be extra enjoyable.

as far as armor, i've seen him do some amazing things with light armor, the likes of which you would be very surprised i would think. the lack of use for lesser lighter armors is not purely the games fault, it's alsothe fault of players who think that comp and ubese are always the best choice. furthermore, you have to also make sure that all of the armor's aren't equal in value, some armor has to be more afordable by newer players and thus less protective.

regarding tka, he's not saying it's all powerefull, he's not even saying tka is noticeably more powerfull in a fight, but i'll tell you what, if someone mastered ONLY tka and spent no extra skill points, and they fought someone who mastered only pikeman with no extra skill points, can you deny that the meditation and ability to aim for healt, action, or mind at willthat tka has would make it technically better than pikeman? of course a pikeman can drop more skill points and get meditation as well, but those extra skill points he spent aren't justified, and while this is a small problem, it only takes something small like that to make tkas the post prevelent proffession in the game when everything else is strictly balanced. we all remember those days when everyone was a tka.

regarding combat balance, he's suggesting these changes be made and the combat revamp held off until afterwards, because he's pretty sure combat won't need any kind of "revamp" after this, just a few touches perhaps.i can promise youhis perspective isn't being flawed by buffs (or armor which he and i both think aren't a problem) as he does most of his pvp and dueling unbuffed, and makes all of his combat balance related claims based on this. it's our oppinion that this combat revamp will in fact change the game for the worse, but this is only based on what wehear about it, and none of this is first hand.

as far as smugglers goes, he very clearly stated that the left tree is fine when the languages are fixed (to actually require some kind of limitting system, i assume he meant) and i agree, when languages become a real part of the game, the left tree will no longer be useless, it will be incredibly important. you said"He had some cool mission ideas but nothing that hasnt been better thought out or explained here in the smuggler forums." regarding thefirst part of this statement, are you trying to say that the mission ideas, which were actually the smallest part of the solution, were the only part you thought even deserving of the word "cool"? i mean, even if you didn't like the bounty hunter visibility section, come on, it's at least very well thought out. now more importantly regarding the last part of that statement, anywhere in his document did he say that all of these ideas were his and his alone? no, he didn't, but what in the world was the point of that part of the statement anyhow? all it does is put the writer in a bad light, again it looks like you just formed an oppinion at the start and read the whole document with a closed mind and now it just looks like you're trying to discredit him.

please keep in mind, i'm only saying what i see, obviously it might not be true at all that you're trying to discredit him, but you sure choose your words in an offensive way towards someone with nothing but hard work towards nothing but good intentions for players like you.

regarding BE/CH do you not understand the other things bio engineers can do besides make pets? a lot, and last i checked, CHs don't need any crafters, they just use them because they're there. i mean with the clothes and food they can enhance, not to mention the fact that they can make pets with specific stats is good enough, their pets don't need to be better than CH caught pets every time. they should be weaker but more customizeable, that's balance. i mean how would you like to go out and catch something that takes you months to find a baby of, only to waltz into town to see someone with a BE version that's blatantly better in every way?

now, about general crafting, he said very cleary that they should still be randomized and that they should shift, the fact that you state this to the contrary makes it painfully obvious that you didn't read the entire post (sorry, couldn't resist) his concern was the same as a concern i read about just today from a doc that said as soon as he mastered he strated checking and it took over three months for a spawn of high quality organics of some type or another to come into existance, this is the issue musashi addressed. as far as organic hunting being too hard he even said it's not that big of a problem, and it isn't. players that can collectlarge amounts woudln't be any less needed, there would just be a more reasonable possibility of collecting things yourself, especially when you say that crafters often have little combat, so you say weaker enemies should still have good stuff, then on the other hand you worry about the importance of pure organics collectores? is it just me or is this contradictory?

why does responding to your post make me feel like i'm talking to a politician? do you work for SOE in secret or something? lol

Im sure he's a stand up guy, its clear he loves the game and wants to see it improved.

But youve got to understand, we see these types of posts all the time (arguably not as long or expansive as his).

For the record I didnt call his post "crackpot" I said that if you write about professions that you dont have experiance with it discredits your suggestions, making your post no different than the other crackpot "fix this now" posts. The tone of my post wasnt mean spirited but it was critical, it should be taken as what it is. This guy seems to grasp things in a "Big Picture" sort of way, I like that, very very few people have that capacity in my experiance, however this game is huge and complex and some things have to be done before other things and the first is combat revamp.

I wrote in my post the things I disagree with so theres no need to re-hash that here. But like armor, Im sure he can do a lot with armor but no one will use it with buffs being like they are...

Combat Revamp first every thing else can be re-evaluated then.

Think of it like this. The combat system is the foundation of this game.

What we would do if we started changing things before that happened would be like planning and building an apartment building without even looking at the earth that it was to be built on.

I'll admit I may have interpreted some of his post incorrectly but you have to admit that the spelling andformating didnt help, not that mine is perfect in any way shape or form but I do tend to break things down into easily digestible chunks.

I do believe that a combat is very necessary and will be the easiest way toget the game into a state where other things may be addressed. His changeswould require far more pure engineering than a foundation combat system change. Either way it will be sweeping game changeing modifications.

Remember just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean that they are inherently hostile. Im not. I just dont think that hes on the right track. Like I said hes got some good ideas but the changes are too big. The game is mostly functional now as evidenced by our continued subscriptions but there are some things that start bogging down.

Like I said every profession has a "State of the Profession" document and those are pretty spot on.

-Gooney

i wouldn't mind it ... but make it where only MBH's can pull the mission ... we would have a chance against em ... not much of one lol but more of a chance then one that just had say BH 4040 and MTK

--= 11.15.2005 / The Day The Pets Died =--

Your right I completely misread the General Crafting bit. Sorry about that. Had I read it correctly I wouldnt have commented on the resource bit as I think that is one of the better working aspects of the game.

Ultimately we all have the same goal, we want a better game, we want it to be as fun as it was when we first started and people ran around in Mibarri and Bone armor scarffing Muon or Pixie. Even then though it was obvious that the combat system was off.

-Gooney