Smuggler Archive
Thread: Spice: Smuggle or Craft?
Shrendyc
Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:13 am
#14
I think it should work like this:
We go to our underworld contact to see if Jabba needs any spices moved. That gives us a mission to travel to planet Y, and meet with a contact to pick up the goods; however, the guy won't be at the spot forever (timed mission) and along the way (either in space or on the ground) something might spawn that could interdict us and a roll is made to see if our skills are good enough to pass through undetected. If NOT, we either fight, or try to run and break the aggro. If we fight, we run the risk of being late to the pick up. If we MISS the pick up, we gain visibility on the BH terminals. If we get there in time, we get the items in question and proceed with part B of the mission.
Part B then is taking the goods we just picked up and delivering them to a certain number of underworld contacts spread throughout the worlds, all the while avoiding the local cops, imperial scans, rival gangs, etc. Obviously we will need evasion skills to assist us in this. When we make all the deliveries, we get out mission payout. If we get stopped and scanned, with the contraband discovered, we have a choice to fight and try to get away (success means small visibility on the terms, failure means BIG visibility as then the goods are confiscated and a fine imposed; also the threat of incap and death).
Now, why is it important to make these deliveries to the underworld contacts? Because this is where people BUY the spice. Basically, you just restocked one of Jabba's vendors. WHen the underworld contact has spice on it, it will say things like "Psst buddy - I got what you need". and then people can buy the spices which gets the sales of the spices off of the smugglers back.
Now - this would go into phase number II - PLAYER smuggling. First,large quantities of certaingoods need to be deemed as illegal to transport offworld (things like Lokian wheat, dant berries, drugs) So if you have 50K units of an illegal material in your inventory, when you try to board the shuttle (or launch your ship into space, or travel with it) you should get a message saying that you can't leave, and depending on the severity of the material, maybe even impose a fine on you based on the quantity.
So, the player who wants to get their goods offworld would go to an underworld contact, and, using it like a vendor, select a tab like the my sales tab on the public bazaar, only it would be labelled "smuggling mission". In it, he would place the contraband he wanted moved, name his fee, and give a waypoint to the vendor (or building, for those people who don't have vendors) where the goods are ultimately going to go. If the fee named does not match the money available in the bank, the mission is nulled.
A smuggler could walk past the vendor, and if a player has posted a player mission on it, it would say "psst, hey, heard about a job you might be interested in." The smuggler would check the mission out, and if the money is right, he could take it and then all the above rules would apply. Note - the player smuggler wouldn't actually get the goods, just a marker of some kind; that way, if they fail the mission, the posting player doesn't lose their goods, but the smuggler still gains the visibility and loses the mission.
If the smuggler makes it to the destination vendor, he simply drops the marker onto the vendor, and the mission is completed, payouts made, and the goods are transferred onto the vendor for the posting player to retrieve. If the destination is a house, the smuggler drops the chip onto the house control (smugglers would be granted entrance permission for the missions durationif the house is private) and the payout would occur. When the player who owns the building enters the next time, they can select a tab from the house control panel labelled "retrieve goods" and then the material transfer would take place.
I was also thinking about adding in a "haggle" option before the smuggler takes a mission - that would potentially up the payout of the NPC mission but also raise the difficulty and the consequences of failure. Also "haggle" for a PC mission would engage a dialogue to barter for the services.
These are thoughts off the top of my head - anyone have any comments or suggestions to make this better?
WesBelden
Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:32 am
#15
Nicolas_Frost wrote:
Heh, you kinda took what I said outta context. I was trying to find a happy medium for the people that wanted to craft and wanted to aquire.
Personally, I don't like crafting in MMOs. However, I will admit, SWG has the best crafting system I've seen, I still don't like all that crafting.
I'm the type that would rather aquire, I just wanted to bridge the gap between aquisition and crafting.
Oops, my bad, sorry 
. There is however an element in the community (at least I believe there used to be) that was/is still for crafting; I'd still like to hear their views on why.
DRWolfe wrote:
Spice would be actually sold through various dealers (NPCs) scattered throughout the galaxy (in cantina back-rooms and other such likely places). A method of making these PC dealers and making PC cities more useful would be to make PC cantina owners able to place these dealers in their cantinas.
Each dealer is linked to a particular criminal group (Jabba, Valerian, etc). Missions are generated by an NPC at the criminal group's base of operations for Smugglers to deliver spice to their dealers (or a cantina owner uses an option on his dealer to place an order for spice to be delivered). If it is only PC cantina dealers, missions should also be generated for NPC deliveries so there are always missions available.
The Smuggler takes the mission and the spice is placed in his inventory via a special container item that cannot be opened (like the supply crate for Whip's Vehicular Control missions). All law enforcement officers in cities (including Imperials) and Imperials in the wilds would do random scans (like the Imperials currently do) and this item would be considered contraband. If this item is discovered in a scan and the scanning trooper is not killed within a certain time, the shipment is lost, the Smuggler's faction for that criminal group is reduced, and possibly the Smuggler generates a little "notoriety" to be placed on the Bounty Hunter teminals. If the shipment is delivered successfully, the Smuggler is paid the mission reward, his faction for that criminal group goes up, and possibly his "notoriety" goes down. The crate is then broken up automatically into however many units of spice were ordered and made available to be purchased from the dealer.
I like this idea,a lot 
Malcolm_CaKrewrote:
*However* if various "hot or not" qualities are applied to spices, we could allow our aspiring underground chemists to tweak their spices. It would wind up a bit like slicing, but it would be either "cutting" it to get more hits, or "spiking" it to tweak the effects or downer. So, the savvy Smuggler could go after the qualities of spices he wanted, both by chasing down NPC contacts to follow shifts of hotter spice, and/or he could take what he gets and tweak it up through a crafting process. A true Spice Lord in the making would probably do both.
That would certainly appease those interested in crafting; however, given the player econemy/market is in the state that it is, namely that only the best is wanted and so only the best sells, it is likely that in order to compete a Smuggler would be required to act as underground chemist aswell as quality Smuggler.
An idea just popped into my head though (a rare occurance indeed); What if Smugglers smuggling spice for NPCs could slice into the containers and re-cut the spice so that it was slightly lower quality, but higher quantity, enabling themselves to keep some for themselves and, assuming they did a good enough job, their employer would be none the wiser.
Shrendyc
Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:48 am
#16
LaughingWolf wrote:
I like the idea, Shrendyc. Just a little nitpick tho: entrance rights are not enough to be able to drop something in a building. For that you need admin rights..... you can easilly see the problem in giving automatic temporary admin rights!
For that matter, that's a problem in itself, the way rights work in housing right now. We should have a little more control, like being able to give someone dropping rights but no removal/redeed/etc rights. But that asside, I love your proposal.
Thanks - Its going to be a hassle to figure out where to drop goods for people who don't have a vendor - unless we could come up with some interface with the sign on the outside of the building we have the mission for, like a radial menu with "drop package here", which when done, would send a message to the owner saying that they needed to retrieve the goods from their sign. When they did so, they would get the radial saying "retrieve goods" and viola! transfer has taken place.
Just something more to chew on. If anyone has a way to improve anything I've suggested, I'm all ears; I know that similar systems have been suggested before, but I just wanted to work through it in my own mind to see what popped out (besides "I could use a beer")
kgmkiorys
Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:51 am
#17
Wes, i do appreciate the debating of this issue, but i have a question, a concern about this...
What is the final goal of this topic? Is it for the pleasure of argumenting ideas with no chances of being even read by any red deciding name? or is it a way to prepare some sort of document that you were asked to provide (an other one because they lost all the previous) in order to make the revamp (when the time comes, in mid october, year 2027) in the best effective way, with the more accurate data from us?
Because i have trouble understanding the question, you ask SMUGGLERS if they want to SMUGGLE spice or CRAFT it?
If i remember well (and i do remember well), the top 1 and 2 issues you mentionned to the devs after debating them with us are about smugglers needing to smuggle.
On the same way of thinking, your other post-it about the underworld is just another summary of the issue spreadsheet, is it possible to know exactly what we are talking about here?
WesBelden
Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:52 am
#18
Shrendyc wrote:
LaughingWolf wrote:
I like the idea, Shrendyc. Just a little nitpick tho: entrance rights are not enough to be able to drop something in a building. For that you need admin rights..... you can easilly see the problem in giving automatic temporary admin rights!
For that matter, that's a problem in itself, the way rights work in housing right now. We should have a little more control, like being able to give someone dropping rights but no removal/redeed/etc rights. But that asside, I love your proposal.
Thanks - Its going to be a hassle to figure out where to drop goods for people who don't have a vendor - unless we could come up with some interface with the sign on the outside of the building we have the mission for, like a radial menu with "drop package here", which when done, would send a message to the owner saying that they needed to retrieve the goods from their sign. When they did so, they would get the radial saying "retrieve goods" and viola! transfer has taken place.
Just something more to chew on. If anyone has a way to improve anything I've suggested, I'm all ears; I know that similar systems have been suggested before, but I just wanted to work through it in my own mind to see what popped out (besides "I could use a beer")
Alternatively, you could drop it off with an NPC; if you go with DRWolfe's idea of having NPCs in every cantina you could specify which city to drop it off at, player cities with cantinas included, and the player could make the pick up there.
Shrendyc
Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:54 am
#19
I like that suggestion a lot Wes - sorry to derail your thread so badly. So to say, I would like to smuggle spices.
LaughingWolf
Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:59 am
#20
Good idea, Wes.
And yes, chalk one up for smuggling over crafting.
And yes, chalk one up for smuggling over crafting.
sumner
Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:24 am
#21
If spices are revamped to the point where they are better than buffs there will be a demand for them again. I think the devs will want to keep them player crafted, they did this with BH droids. They were available on terminals originally.I do like the idea of npcs selling spice. Maybe the cantina npcs could be like a bazzar. Spices would not be allowed on the normal bazzar or on player vendors, only these npcs. Smugglers would have to get their spices to these npcs through the scans, so there is some smuggle. You offer them to the npc just like you would on a vendor, pick your item, set a pricve and it is listed. When normal players came to the npc they would get a list just like the bazzar, including galaxy wide search, it would be like the npc saying "I don't have that, but I know where you ccan get it" I also like the ideas GM posted way back when wehre you could get componets or boosters for spices from npc delivery missions, more smuggler content I hate to have skills that some aren't interested in, but plain and simple if you want to get the mods for master doc you need to do the crafting, smuggler should work the same, once you make master you never have to craft again if you don't want to.
I hate to have skills that some aren't interested in, but plain and simple if you want to get the mods for master doc you need to do the crafting, smuggler should work the same, once you make master you never have to craft again if you don't want to.I also really like the resource smuggling. I'd do it for anything over 10K total. I don't think delivery would be as much of a problem, just have npcs at every starport. A player wants to move 50K of Lokian wheat from Nym's to Bestine, he lists it on the vendor for 10K. A smuggler picks it up (and gets a holder item) then transports it to the designated vendor to receive payment. Planet restricted items would only be scanned when boarding your craft or a inter-planet shuttle, so no need to drop the resources at someones house/vendor.
Ternque01
Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:41 am
#22
What a good thread.
Off the top of my head, I think that crafting spice should go into Caylin's Crimelord profession. Smugglers get the spice, Crimelords make and sell it. Allow Crimelords to put up contraband vendors. This is a pipedream at the moment. Now, let me get onto discussing spice missions.
Haveplayers approach smugglers in order to get spice. The smuggler goes to a NPC and grabs the mission to get it. The smuggler would then type in the name of the buying player. Have the buyer to the NPC where they confirm that they are the player who will need X amount of spice delivered from said smuggler. The mission begins, and the smuggler gets the needed spices and deposits it on the NPC for later retrieval and payement by the buyer. The point at which the smuggler drops off the spices at the NPC is the moment something special could happen. The smuggler could have chosen to skim some product or just leave the product alone. Subsequent times being caught skimming spice will result in subsequent increases in visibility.
Also make higher level spices only obtainable through the most risky missions, and by risky, I mean very dangerous and with a big potential to end up on the terminals.
If the game design isn't flexible enough to accomodate smuggled instead of crafted spices, then have smugglers obtain different grades of raw spice that would be used to craft the upper tiers of spices or used as a special additive to all crafted spices.
On the whole though, I would prefer to smuggle the stuff. The drawback to smuggled spice is that a player would have to purchase a significant amount of it to justify running a mission for - two to three crate minimum I think.
Zeon_Zaku
Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:38 am
#23
Stupid question but... why can't we craft and smuggle spice? We craft the spice then, because it's illegal, have to smuggle it from place-to-place.
It may sound stupid, but I like crafting spice. It gives me something to do and sell. I think it's fine the way it is-- it juts needs to be made more "illegal".
It may sound stupid, but I like crafting spice. It gives me something to do and sell. I think it's fine the way it is-- it juts needs to be made more "illegal".
WesBelden
Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:06 am
#25
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
Stupid question but... why can't we craft and smuggle spice? We craft the spice then, because it's illegal, have to smuggle it from place-to-place.
It may sound stupid, but I like crafting spice. It gives me something to do and sell. I think it's fine the way it is-- it juts needs to be made more "illegal".
Not a stupid question at all, if anyone's stupid it's me for needing to be told why people want to still craft it ; my view on Smuggling and Smuggler is that if our primary ability is to Smuggle and all our other abilities are guaged around enabling us to Smuggle, why should we make it, especially when in the EU and what we know from the movies, Smugglers had nothing to do with its creation, but rather it was mined.
; my view on Smuggling and Smuggler is that if our primary ability is to Smuggle and all our other abilities are guaged around enabling us to Smuggle, why should we make it, especially when in the EU and what we know from the movies, Smugglers had nothing to do with its creation, but rather it was mined.On the other hand, crafting is a key part of the game and essential to the player driven econemy. I've never enjoyed crafting spice as it lacks any challenge for me and seems mundane; that's as much a statement about me as it is the system however and as we're getting a revamp, crafting the spice could be made far more intricate.
It's a question of preference. That's why I started this thread, to find out what people's preferences are and hopefully find out why; after all, it's my job to represent what you all want, not what I'm after .
.Message Edited by WesBelden on 01-11-2005 10:08 AM
Zeon_Zaku
Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:28 am
#26
WesBelden wrote:
Zeon_Zaku wrote:
Stupid question but... why can't we craft and smuggle spice? We craft the spice then, because it's illegal, have to smuggle it from place-to-place.
It may sound stupid, but I like crafting spice. It gives me something to do and sell. I think it's fine the way it is-- it juts needs to be made more "illegal".
Not a stupid question at all, if anyone's stupid it's me for needing to be told why people want to still craft it
On the other hand, crafting is a key part of the game and essential to the player driven econemy. I've never enjoyed crafting spice as it lacks any challenge for me and seems mundane; that's as much a statement about me as it is the system however and as we're getting a revamp, crafting the spice could be made far more intricate.
It's a question of preference. That's why I started this thread, to find out what people's preferences are and hopefully find out why; after all, it's my job to represent what you all want, not what I'm after
Message Edited by WesBelden on 01-11-2005 10:08 AM
Hehe, well... that's my oppinion. While crafting my not be a challange, I enjoy it because it's not a challange. Not everything about Smuggler shouldiscombat. Crafting spice is easy, mundane... but it's a good change from constant combat. I just wish we could expierment on it.
Besides, it gives us something to sell.
Besides, it gives us something to sell.
But maybe I'm just looking for a reason to put up more vendors. 