Smuggler Archive

Thread: Amount of credits Fined to People who fail scans?

Zandergeef
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:19 pm
#14






Surseance wrote:





Zandergeef wrote:

I think that this should be based on the amount of money someone has in there Bank/Cash. That way it can hit everyone equily hard. I think 1% of your total credits seems like a good idea.. that means that people who have 1 million credits get hit for 10k but people who have 100 million credits get hit for 1 million credits.


Some type of system that hits everyone equaly hard. You could have something like a floor and a ceiling so that you would always be fined at least 5k and never find over 1 million or something like that.


Sure there is a loop hole that some poeple might have mulitiple accounts and keep all the money on one account but still not everyone will have time and want to do that and that is there right if they buy more than one account.


Any thoughts or problems with the idea.. maybe they should be fined more or less?




My god, welcome communist HELL. No way!!!





Mostly what I am saying is that 5k fines are weak to someone who has 100 million credits. With 5k fines they might as well just not fine people at all. Not saying I am filthy rich.. just that some people are and having fines that dont mean anything will not stop them or even be a factor to them.




Tieler Durden -- Elder Smuggler(retired)
Geef Durden -- Elder Weaponsmith(retired)
Vendor in Twilights End (-2982 5253 Naboo) or at least they used to be

SBRD0C
Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:17 pm
#15






ana-mo-cara wrote:

As I have said only the seizure of the illegal item will have appropriate sting to it.


Sadly I think we have to accept the fact that if the new tef systems fly through the imperial crackdown is truely over. Thats why we got the mooey mooey good faction point cap lifted.


We just have to come to terms with the fact that the crackdown is probabally going to be a memory soon.


I am also willing to bet that sliceing armor will be simplified to one peice affairs, and weapons sliceing will be reduced or even removed from the game to prevent inbalances.


The future is pretty damn bleak for smugglers in my oppinion.





I honestly don't think confiscation will ever happen. Everyone besides the most hardcore Roleplayers would have problems with that, for fairly good reason. I recall part of GMs Revamp threads that touched on this, his seemed a good solution (tiered legality and all that)


I don't think that the future is really all that bleak, it is certainly brighter than the past. With our FP cap going away,it will be easierto make a business out of FP/Perk sales. The Equation I see is this:


no TEFs = more GCW participation
Cheaper PVE bases that die quickly = renewable income for anyone that can sell bases


more GCW = more people buying the new bases and/or faction armor schematics(postCU)


The argument that now the crackdown does not effect rebels? it didn't effect them much before.. Now that they will be Shoot-On-Sight, they will have more need than ever before to be smuggled, even if we don't have the skill yet to do it, its an opening and we should get our foot in the door. A smuggler skill seems in order here that puts someone on 'leave' status for about 5 minutes.. long enough to get through town, or as long as they are within 50m of the smuggler.. long enough to get across the galaxy.



Anyway, don't mean to hijack the thread.. to weigh in on the actual topic.. yes I thinkfines for contrabandshould charge more, I support rich players paying more as they currently do if they /punch a Stormtrooper.


If your not familiar with that.. if your have greater than some number X credits it charges you a few thousand credits on top of the normal finedeliciously brutal, and should be included in normal contraband fines IMO.




Colonel Emitt 'Doc' Brown (Starsider)
Master Smuggler | Master Pistoleer | Commando
Interplanetary Shipping Co. Located Crystal Hollow Dantooine (-6833, 4750)
Vendors Deal in Weapon, Droid, and 'Special Shipments'


/Target SOE; /CLAP

Nicolas_Frost
Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:15 am
#16

I like the idea of confiscation with the chance of being able to steal back your gear in an instanced dungeon.


Seriously speaking, sliced gear is neither a right nora privilage. Its a risk. A risk on par with carrying an illegally modified gun around. Whether you're in the countryside, a large city, or on public transit.


It is also true that weapons which are confiscated are not immediately destroyed. I've spent some time working with a guy who runs the evidence lockup at the local police station. First things are analized and labeled.Then, they are stored according to thier labels. Afterwards, they are are dismantled(taken apart piece by piece and stored in bins). Finally, they are destroyed. These first two stages are when the player would be searching/fighting for thier gear. I would say make it so that they have 7-10 days to find thier gear. Afterwhich is irretrievable.


In the dungeon, NPCs of the faction which confiscated or is holding(depending on how its set up) will spawn, and are instant aggro, reguardless of faction. Now, people are going to worry about Imperials who have thier gear confiscated by Imperial NPCs. Two possible solutions here.



  1. Make them non-factional. There are already non-factional Storm Troopers in the Warren, so we know its possible.

  2. Have the Empire hand over the confiscated weaponry to local authorities. This has a downside, however, as it would only work on planets with police forces, meaning planets likeLok would need to have the Imperials holding them.

Now, this would work for each planet as well. Something confiscated on Talus won't end up on Naboo. Each planet would have an entrance to an instanced dungeon. This would work similarly to the Corvette. Technically, the nine Corvettes are all the same one, under different scenarios.


This "Evidence Lockup" dungeon would be the same. There'd be an Imperial Lockup, an RSF Lockup, CorSec Lockup, Fed-Dub Lockup, et cetera. There would be a static entrance on each planet, like there's a static lauch point for the Corvette. Entering the lockup would load you into the Dungeon with your group, like the Corvette. And each Lockup would be the same in size, dimension, and shape; however, the confiscated gear would be located in different sections of the Lockup, depending on what type it is. Spice would be located in the Narcotics devision. Weapons would be in the weapons storage wing. Armor would be in its own area. And anything else deemed illegal would be located in the fourth wing of the Lockup.


There should be a central computer mainframe which can be sliced for access codes to each wing of the lockup. This would make it so that a Smuggler could speed up the process of getting the gear and getting back out. If thereis noSmuggler in the group, then the group must take out the "Boss" of the Lockup. The most difficult NPC in the lockup sorta like a General or Field Marshal NPC of the faction that's holding the gear. Once killed, ke drops a datapad listing the codes for access to each wing in the Lockup, and perhaps a special randomloot item.


Getting in isn't just gonna be, "Damn, they got my stuff. Okay lets all head to xx,xx and get it guys.". It should be more like talking to a SpyNet Operative(YAY! GIVE THEMMORE THAN ONEUSE!), buying information on how to find the Lockup, orfast talking your way through it(won't be available each time, and each time it is, the responces will be different) for free. The SpyNet Opperative would give you the waypoint to a non-attackable informant of the faction who has the confiscated gear. He'll do two things. Give you the location to the lockup, and a code-key. The code key would be like the Travel Authorization for the Corvette, one time use to enter whether or you pass or fail. Well, actually, in this case, it'd have three uses, only for that lockup, and if you succeed/fail, it becomes useless.


Since this is your personal gear, unlike the loot on board the Corvette, you'll only get three chances to retrieve it before it gets destroyed.


Add to it randomloot items which can be retrieved as well, which are already illegal and left unslicable(for balance, and the items can already be "sliced by the game", which would be why they're in Lockup). There'd be a chance that in each wing, is something kept in the same locker your gear was stored in. Say, you were going to get your Sliced Armor back. In the same locker your armor was stored, you would have a chance of finding a kickass set of armor leggings/jacket/chestplate/whatever. Same goes for the Weapons Devision, Narcotics Wing, and the General Storage. However, the chance that all four wings wouldhave these loot items would be very low, but still possible.


The seperate wings also means you'll only need to aquire the codes and visit the areas which coincide with what was confiscated from you. If you only lost a carbine and a crate of spice, you'll only need to visit the Weapons Devision and the Narcotics Wing.


I'm glad someone mentioned the dungeon idea. It let me get sorta creative, and I like getting to work on things like this. I even thought up a layout for the Lockup. It wouldn't be very large, but it wouldn't be very small, either.


From above: Cross-shaped, each wing of equal length. Think of a Plus sign(+).


From the side. Wideand kinda short, no more than 3-4 stories tall. First two stories are the four wings. The top stories are the Administration area, in which the Field Marshal(Boss NPC) resides, as well as his office. The top two stories would not be cross shaped, but be square or rectangular, since there's no need for wings branching out. This would be a good place for factional loot. There'd be a better chance of loot up here than the "bonus" loot found with your gear, but its not guaranteed.


The entrance your code-key gets you into is actually the Lockup's emergency exit, which locks behind you(your code-key is a "electronic lockpick" which "scrambled the door's circuitry"). Meaning the only way out is the main door. TheLockup would be tough, but not uber, and there would be a time limit on it like the Corvette. Say, oh... ninety minutes. Lets say that the reason why is that the code key that got you in also triggered a slient alarm, and this has called for reinforcements, who will arrive in that time. This also means the Lockup has gone under Lockdown to hold you there. The lastthing once you have your gear is thatyou'll need to do is override the security functions to get out. This means you'll eventually need to visit the Field Marshal who runs the Lockup and get his datapad, which has the codes to override the lockdown.


The Field Marshal's office is the Fourth Floor, and Security is the third. To get into the Field Marshal's office, you'll need to aquire the codes to enter the Administration Office from the Chief ofSecurity, or have a Smuggler slice them from the Computer Core, located on floors One and Two in the center of the four Wings.


As for the Chief of Security, he'll be the second toughest MOB on board, and he'll have two of his Lieutenants with him, they'll be better than the average NPCs in the Lockup but not as good as the Chief.


The Field Marshal: Obviously the toughest MOB on board, and while there will be one guard(perhaps two), outside his office, he'll be alone. Unless you, for some reason, decide to bring the guard into the office and fight both.


Now, for each of the wings, the NPCs in them should reflect the type of things stored in them. The general storage would have normal NPCs, no exceptional strengths or weaknesses.


The Weapons Devision will do much more damage than the rest of the NPCs, they basicly broke out the confiscated weapons because they're "Under Siege". Thier defences and resistances will be average or less.


The Armor Hold will be the opposite. They'll have much higher resistances and defencesthan the rest of the NPCs, but dealing normal to less damage than the rest.


The Narcotics Wing(I know you'll laugh), will quite possibly be high on fumes and such, from either the destruction of the spices, analization of the spices, or simply dirty cops skimming off the top. This means thier HAMs will be up across the board, but thier resistances, defences, and damage output will be less than average.


To touch on the Field Marshall and the Chief again. They'll essentially have benefits from all the wings. Consider them "perks of the job".


Well that's all I can think of. Hopefully, someone didn't say the exact same thing while I was working on this.




Jaecob Maragi
Babelonian Militia Captain
Master Smuggler and Alliance Pilot
Captain of the LongShot(2)
THE Official Smuggler Forum Smartass!
The prices of my services are based on "tolerance". The more I have to tolerate you, the more you have to pay me.


Cloudchasing
Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:49 am
#17






Nicolas_Frost wrote:


A lot of stuff






I really like this concept. It's a new dungeon that people would have to go to. It wouldn't affect underpowered noobs too much, cause it's just easier to get another DH17 than raid a compound. Also, real penalties for carrying the contraband would be great, and here's a perfect solution where the item isn't GONE, just gone for a while.


I really like this



Shaidown Lack-Lowca Galaxy
Master Smuggler
SpinningCloud
Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:34 am
#18

I don't see the POINT to the current so-called crackdown anyway.


Look, the scans are not set up in logical places so there are NOT going to be any smugglers hired to move illegal goods EVEN if the fines were high enough to justify hiring a smuggler.


Until the scans are in a reasonable spot...like starports duh...then NONE of this is going to mean a freaking thing. I could care less what some OTHER player gets fined if the sting of it does not in the least affect MY gameplay.


So what? Make the fines higher...make them REALLY painful. Confiscate their uber weapons. It will still NOT mean a thing for smugglers since there are no scans at the logical bottlenecks...the starports. NO one will hire us to follow them around shopping or traveling to their house.


The WOULD hire us to smuggle past starport scan points IF there were such things AND the fines were stiff.




Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Two years of "Soon"(TM), a harsh bunch of lies.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie"

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Dancers can't smuggle and neither can I.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Why are there Jedi, I don't know why.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

Bravo12
Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:24 pm
#19

In RL, everyone pays the same amount for a fine, for the same offense. Oh, but if you're rich and famous, you can sometimes get away with killing your wife.



____ Sergeant ___________________________________
IMPERIAL RANGER SPY
------------------------------------Treb Kenna-----

Mcgreag
Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:29 am
#20

Real world is different in different parts of the world. Here in Sweden we have something that could be translated as "unit fines" or "day fines". Basically you are forced to live on existential minimum for X number of days. If you earn more money than the buffer down to this minimum is larger so you pay higher fine each day. Now there are lower and upper limits etc but the principal holds true.



Mcgreag - Infinity - Master Smuggler - Rebel Colonel - Member of Legion
Hoshi - Infinity - Master Armorsmith - Member of Talus Trade Syndicate - RIS certed.
Egowyn
Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:04 am
#21






lurdanta wrote:
Personally I don't like the percentage approach, why should someone who fails a scan pay more just because they have more. It doesn't make sense. The severity of the fine should depend on the crime, the more severe the crime the higher the fine. For example, if I get caught speeding the fine is determined by the speed I was going, not how much money I made. Using the percentage rule a person who has 10 million dollars who goes 5 mph over the speed limit would pay more than someone with 100K who was going 50 mph over the speed limit. This doesn't make sense. The whole idea of a fine is to punish in proportion to the crime, not how much money they have. Unless, of course the crime involved money, and in that case maybe a percentage makes sense, but as far as possession of contraband, I think it makes sense to base the fine based on the severity of the crime. For example, someone with one sliced pistol would be fined less than someone who has ten sliced weapons, a couple crates of muon and a set of sliced armor. Perhaps a better system would be a set fine for each violation and possibly different fines for different violations, such as spice violations being greater than weapon or armor, or the opposite depending on the gov'ts attitude toward them. I think it might also be interesting if different planets/jurisdictions had different laws/fines...like Nym's guards could care less about sliced weapons or armors. but will fine you 1k for having pixies on Lok, but the RSF takes a dim view of spices...say a 25K fine for each crate...while on Tat, everything goes as far as the locals go...of course, there's always Imperial Law and it would follow that that would be the same everywhere. This would create different jurisdictions and, it seems to me, begin to create a climate conducive for creating the underworld we all want to happen. I also think they should add scans in space.


I do think factional rank play a role in fines for failing a faction scan (i.e. a Col. should be fined more than a Sgt.). It makes sense the Empire would want to punish an officer more than a Noncom ( id say your preception of the millitary is off armed forces put alot of time effort and money into training thier officers and try to salvage that when ever posible....its most offten the noncom who takes the fall, while thier training also take time effort and money its not as much as the officer this would be ESSPECIALY true in the empire ( a suposedly corupt government) but then the republic was perty darn corupt to wasen't it?). I would even go so far that for the upper ranks, fines would not be an option and failing a scan would mean immediate aggression on the part of the authorities scanning and the creation of a bounty hunter mission if the person escapes.

Of course, I do hope they add bribe as a skill under Underworld.








Colonel Egowyn Eiwa MASTER SMUGGLER
KAURI's LONGEST STANDING SMUGGLER
"The gods to are fond of a joke"
lurdanta
Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:50 pm
#22

Personally I don't like the percentage approach, why should someone who fails a scan pay more just because they have more. It doesn't make sense. The severity of the fine should depend on the crime, the more severe the crime the higher the fine. For example, if I get caught speeding the fine is determined by the speed I was going, not how much money I made. Using the percentage rule a person who has 10 million dollars who goes 5 mph over the speed limit would pay more than someone with 100K who was going 50 mph over the speed limit. This doesn't make sense. The whole idea of a fine is to punish in proportion to the crime, not how much money they have. Unless, of course the crime involved money, and in that case maybe a percentage makes sense, but as far as possession of contraband, I think it makes sense to base the fine based on the severity of the crime. For example, someone with one sliced pistol would be fined less than someone who has ten sliced weapons, a couple crates of muon and a set of sliced armor. Perhaps a better system would be a set fine for each violation and possibly different fines for different violations, such as spice violations being greater than weapon or armor, or the opposite depending on the gov'ts attitude toward them. I think it might also be interesting if different planets/jurisdictions had different laws/fines...like Nym's guards could care less about sliced weapons or armors. but will fine you 1k for having pixies on Lok, but the RSF takes a dim view of spices...say a 25K fine for each crate...while on Tat, everything goes as far as the locals go...of course, there's always Imperial Law and it would follow that that would be the same everywhere. This would create different jurisdictions and, it seems to me, begin to create a climate conducive for creating the underworld we all want to happen. I also think they should add scans in space.


I do think factional rank play a role in fines for failing a faction scan (i.e. a Col. should be fined more than a Sgt.). It makes sense the Empire would want to punish an officer more than a Noncom. I would even go so far that for the upper ranks, fines would not be an option and failing a scan would mean immediate aggression on the part of the authorities scanning and the creation of a bounty hunter mission if the person escapes.

Of course, I do hope they add bribe as a skill under Underworld.

lurdanta
Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:50 pm
#23



Egowyn wrote:


lurdanta wrote:



I do think factional rank play a role in fines for failing a faction scan (i.e. a Col. should be fined more than a Sgt.). It makes sense the Empire would want to punish an officer more than a Noncom ( id say your preception of the millitary is off armed forces put alot of time effort and money into training thier officers and try to salvage that when ever posible....its most offten the noncom who takes the fall, while thier training also take time effort and money its not as much as the officer this would be ESSPECIALY true in the empire ( a suposedly corupt government) but then the republic was perty darn corupt to wasen't it?). I would even go so far that for the upper ranks, fines would not be an option and failing a scan would mean immediate aggression on the part of the authorities scanning and the creation of a bounty hunter mission if the person escapes.

Of course, I do hope they add bribe as a skill under Underworld.







I think you misunderstand me. I was saying the fine or punishment for being caught in a scan by the other side should be greater for an officer than a private because to the Empire a Col. is more valuable to them caught. They would care more about catching a high ranking officer because that person would know more and taking that person out would cause a more severe hit to the other side. So they catch a private on leave, so what, fine him and let him go, but catch a Col? This ones a keeper, definitely a bigger fish. It isn't a statement of resources paid to train the person, but in reference to the value a particular offender to the authority. They, it seems to me, would be more interested in catching and either interrogating or eliminating a high ranking officer than a foot soldier. This isn't to say I think a noncom is less of a person, but that the officer is worth more tactically and strategically. For example, Princess Leia and me are caught lurking around in Theed by a small group of Stormies. She runs one way, I run the other. They can chase only one of us. Who are they going to chase? Leia, I'd wager, because catching her would do more to damage the Rebellion (and bringing her in certainly would be a career builder for the Stormie in charge of the detail). What I was saying by suggesting rank should play a role is along these lines. Basically, I'm saying if you are a private and you fail a scan, which means they've identified you for who you are, should have a fine as an option, and if you are a Col and you get caught, they won't just fine you and let you go, they will try and arrest/interrogate or eliminate you. I do think lower ranks should face a chance of being attacked on failing a scan, but that higher ranks shouldn't have the option of simply being fined. They are too valuable a prisoner to the authorities to simply fine and let go.

SmugglinZane
Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:07 pm
#24

I think you both misunderstand the military. Both noncoms and officers are held accountable. Where more people are inclined to look the other way when something questionable by an officer arises, when the evidence is there, they take a hit. The thing about it is that most of the time it results in a reassignment or forced retirement/seperation from the service. The reason why is simple. It takes a very high authority to do anything else. With out a high level court martial the most they are usually subject to is a letter of reprimand.


Senior non commisioned officers are in a similar boat. In the US military the reason for this is because both SNCOs and officers are promoted by congressional mandate, with the CIC as the promoting authority.


Now, junior NCOs and below are in a bad boat. They can get reduced in rank, fined, and confined by their commanding officer.


How does this translate into what we see in game. No one will be forced to retire, but maybe senior faction ranks should get a pass on the scan, so long as they perform a certain mission to return them to good standing.


I will say this also. An MP doing ID checks at a gate will haul an officer to jail for DUI or weapons just as quick as he'll haul the private. It's what happens after that things can get hazey.



"Jedi claims of being "broken" are like saying "But my TV isn't widescreen! It's broken! My TV can't show high-def pictures in 1080i, it can only do 720i! It's broken!" Meanwhile, crafters are saying "We'd really like to have a TV that's larger than 12" and gets more than 4 channels and doesn't constantly lose vertical control", and entertainers are saying "Can we get some color instead of this B&W piece of junk?" And smugglers? We're listening to radio programs of "The Shadow" and "The Abbot and Costello Comedy Hour" and hearing FDR's Fireside Chats. We don't even HAVE a damn TV, much less a broken one or a "broken" one by Jedi standards. I'd LOVE to be as "broken" as they are." - The Legendary Solo4114
lurdanta
Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:51 pm
#25

Granted, but I'm talking about being caught by an opposing faction for being of the opposite faction. I think we are talking apples and oranges. In your case a MP catches an officer in their own army breaking the law, I'm talking about a MP catching someone from the other side. For example, in Afganistan we rounded up a bunch of Taliban soldiers. We have let some of the low ranking people go, but the officers or higher ranks we kept because they are more valuable. I can think of an even better example of what I'm talking about and that's the cards the military printed with the 52 Iraqis they wanted to catch. The higher ranking figures were officers, no? Are you saying that some private in the Iraqi army is worth more than the Commander of the Republican Guard?

This is also shown in war crime trials, most notably the Nuremberg Trials. A Sgt. in a concentration camp suffered less penalties generally speaking, than the camp commandant. because they are higher in rank and up in the command structure and therefore more responsible for the actions for which they would be judged. This was also the case with respect to the My Lai Massacre. Lt. Calley, the commanding officer who ordered his troops to shoot civilians was punished more severely than those under his command who followed his orders. However, it is true that Calley's commander, Capt. Medina who told Calley he was moving too slow and to "take care of the civilians" who were slowing him down in his sweep of the city was not punished, but I think this is less a case of military policy than the skill of his defense attorney, F. Lee Bailey, who is infamous for getting even the most guilty party off. Medina escaped punishment because he was sufficiently vague in his directives so as to shirk responsibility.

Mind you I'm not talking about contraband scans, just the factional scans, as it is my understanding that a rebel, who has no contraband can still fail a scan just for being a rebel. I am saying in this case, it might make sense for the repercussions to be proportional to the rank or value of the person failing the scan. The very word rank denotes value, a Col is a higher rank than a private and, I think, it follows that a Col. should have greater repercussions when failing a faction scan than a private.

Punishment for contraband scans is something altogether. I think the punishment for failing a contraband scan, should be in proportion to the nature of the contraband and the number of violations, as in my previous post, a person with a single sliced FWG would have lesser punishment than someone with several sliced weapons, a suit of sliced composite and several crates of pixies and moun. You can see this in our legal system. For example, in California, a person caught with 1 oz. or less of pot gets a $50 fine, but someone with a couple pounds gets prison, and a person with a couple pounds of heroin will likely get a harsher penalty than both of them.

Message Edited by lurdanta on 02-10-2005 04:54 PM

Message Edited by lurdanta on 02-10-2005 04:58 PM

Message Edited by lurdanta on 02-10-2005 04:59 PM

Message Edited by lurdanta on 02-10-2005 05:00 PM

Bravo12
Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:24 am
#26

Why not just have Imperial players that are caught by Imperial troops, be fined in Faction Points? If you dont have enough FP at the time, you lose one rank, depending on the severity of what is found in the scan. Positive scans by troops of an opposing rank should result in immediate aggro and attack. Only neutrals or factionals being scanned by neutral authorities, should be subject to monetary fines.



____ Sergeant ___________________________________
IMPERIAL RANGER SPY
------------------------------------Treb Kenna-----

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