Smuggler Archive
Thread: Jedi did not do this!
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nerfherder321
Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:41 am
#14
or vice versa, since when can only jedi equip and swing a lightsaber? i remmeber that people used to have lightsabers and use it
Rajtinka wrote:
At this point... just change it back to so Jedi can use Jedi only skills... leave them out of our game .. ruining our classes that DONT need help being ruined. SOE will trash Smuggler on their own. We dont need Jedi abusing a skill they should have never been able to have in the first place.
DRWolfe
Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:11 pm
#15
And if Smugglers were hunted by Bounty Hunters with a real penalty for death, how many would have used FD? Every single one of them, and the result would have been the same.
Like I said, this is the Devs fault for not working with the many suggestions put forward and took the easy way out and just nerf'd it.
SmugglinZane
Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:11 pm
#16
DRWolfe wrote:
And if Smugglers were hunted by Bounty Hunters with a real penalty for death, how many would have used FD? Every single one of them, and the result would have been the same.
Like I said, this is the Devs fault for not working with the many suggestions put forward and took the easy way out and just nerf'd it.
There's a profound difference between Smugglers using it and Jedi using it. Smuggler bountieswould more for content and results of failed missions. Jedi using the skill to avoid the only penalty they have in the game was a form of exploitation.
Now that this has been fixed, why don't they bring back permad death or any of the more punishing aspects of death that they were supposed to have in order to be rare and prestigous.
It's the devs fault, but would not have been as big of an issue with a Smuggler using his/her own skill to avoid death. There were many other options that they chose to ignore, but the Jedi use of the skill was extremely distasteful. The only proof you need is the way they regard it in their own posts on the Jedi forum.
I don't disagree that this is the fault of the dev team, but the Jedi sure played a big part in all of it.
WILDMAN_SOLO
Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:56 am
#17
Jedi had a huge part in getting it nerfed by abusing it so openly whenever the oppotunity presented itself. Prime example = Jedi is grinding near his home city, sees BH coming, activates FD, calls his doc mate to drag him back to city limits, calls Militia to beat crap out of BH while their FDed body lies there, send obligatory hate tell to now well battered BH, rinse and repeat.
Now multiply this by a few 1000 and re-think your position. You reckon Jedi didn't get this nerfed, they sure as hell did by abusing a skill they should never have had access to in the 1st place.
Everyone bangs on about what if BH had missions on smugglers, something which has been pencilled in for the possible future. To this I answer yes FD would have been changed BUT it would have been changed as part of an ongoing development and revamp to our proffession and NOT as a knee jerk reaction due to the open abuse and bastardisation of our skill sets by Jedi.
Like i have said in previous post regarding this issue before the nerf was even on the cards, I don't point the finger at BHs for complaining, I hold Jedi fully responsible for abusing a skill they should never have had access to, in order to circumvent the legal collection of the bounty that had been palced on them.
Nugchekk
Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:39 am
#18
So blame all the Jedi for what some have done??
I am Jedi I have never used or obtained FD. I have many Jedi friends that also have never used it. It is ridiculous to blame and entire class for what some have done. At the same time the Devs are the ones who made it possible for the Jedi to obtain FD in the 1st place so I see the problem pointing back to game design overall. Any skill that is reachable with a players skill points is allowable for the player to grind out and use it's that simple.
Yes i'm upset about the nerf as well becaue my NON Jedi is master smuggler and has been since January 04 so I will take a hit on it just like the rest of the Smugglers but I refuse to blame an entire class for what some have done.
And yes if they added Smuggler bounties you would have used FD as well because you had access to it just like the jedis and bh's who had access to it did.
Rajtinka
Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:45 am
#19
Well.... As far as "if there were smuggler bounties you would use it to avoid loss".... this is a ridiculous arguement... i have a Jedi... she has the ability to obtain FD and abuse it... She never has..when she dies she gets rezzed or Clones..Its not for me... But the actions of one class abusing this skill DID cause the lazy Dev team to nerf it instead of fix it. Just bc it was not you or i abusing FD with our Jedi does change the Fact that this was NEVER an issue before the Jedi/BH whining. And yes it sucks that a few lazy grinders that cant just play their Jedi within the game mechanics (hunt alone and be discreet) had to abuse our skill into nerfdom. I hve said in other threads that even after grinding all the way MLS, My Jedi has still never been on the terminals since pub 9 hit. Its not hard to not be hunted... you just have to follow the rules... which is tough for the kiddies to swallow.
P.S. ... I think everyone knows at least ONE Jedi that they respect... but a good bit of the group abuses the power they have... not very jedi-esque
P.S. ... I think everyone knows at least ONE Jedi that they respect... but a good bit of the group abuses the power they have... not very jedi-esque
Nugchekk
Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:47 am
#20
I'm not arguing that there aren't jedi out there that abuse FD. I am however saying you can't blame an entire class for the actions of some that take advantage of poor game design. I do play my Jedi with honor and it does upset me that there are Jedi that don't. I think it should be some sort of requirement of Jedi since Jedi are supposed to behave respectfully. But no one can seem to make that point to the 12 year old Pwners. Although I still have the stand that anyone with the skill points to get FD and want FD will do so. It's in the game design to allow you whatever skills each person would like to obtain within their 250 so therefore it is allowable by any to FD if they have the skill Smuggler Bounties, Jedi Bounties it makes no difference if you can have the skill you will use it.
I am almost Master Lightsaber and have not gotten on the terminals once so yes if your Jedi is played the way intended feign death shouldn't even be needed. I have always had the stand that if I get on the terminals it's my own fault and no one elses so I should do the honorable thing which would be stand my ground and fight to the death even if it is my own.
Even still I don't think an entire class should be blamed for the immaturity of others in that class. I did find it interesting tho to troll the BH forums and see that they admit to requesting a FD nerf and are rejoicing over it at the Smugglers expense. My alt is a Smuggler and will always be a Smuggler so I sympathize with the rest of the Smuggler class. I wish the Devs would have just simply looked at the game design and moved it to the Master box so we wouldn't all at this moment be hating and blaming and pointing fingers at each of the other classes.
Message Edited by Nugchekk on 02-21-2005 12:49 PM
Message Edited by Nugchekk on 02-21-2005 12:52 PM
DRWolfe
Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:49 am
#21
Nugchekk wrote:I'm not arguing that there aren't jedi out there that abuse FD. I am however saying you can't blame an entire class for the actions of some that take advantage of poor game design. I do play my Jedi with honor and it does upset me that there are Jedi that don't. I think it should be some sort of requirement of Jedi since Jedi are supposed to behave respectfully. But no one can seem to make that point to the 12 year old Pwners. Although I still have the stand that anyone with the skill points to get FD and want FD will do so. It's in the game design to allow you whatever skills each person would like to obtain within their 250 so therefore it is allowable by any to FD if they have the skill Smuggler Bounties, Jedi Bounties it makes no difference if you can have the skill you will use it.I am almost Master Lightsaber and have not gotten on the terminals once so yes if your Jedi is played the way intended feign death shouldn't even be needed. I have always had the stand that if I get on the terminals it's my own fault and no one elses so I should do the honorable thing which would be stand my ground and fight to the death even if it is my own.Even still I don't think an entire class should be blamed for the immaturity of others in that class. I did find it interesting tho to troll the BH forums and see that they admit to requesting a FD nerf and are rejoicing over it at the Smugglers expense. My alt is a Smuggler and will always be a Smuggler so I sympathize with the rest of the Smuggler class. I wish the Devs would have just simply looked at the game design and moved it to the Master box so we wouldn't all at this moment be hating and blaming and pointing fingers at each of the other classes.Message Edited by Nugchekk on 02-21-2005 12:49 PM
Message Edited by Nugchekk on 02-21-2005 12:52 PM
I agree with everything except moving the skill to the Master Box. It is too helpful for up-and-coming Smugglers with little-to-no Pistol XP get the huge amount of Pistol XP Master Smuggler requires.
A solution needed to be found, and this nerf was not it. Many suggestions were made and the Devs took the easy way out and nerf'd it with a
My first character is a long-standing Master Smuggler and will always be one. My second character is a new Jedi who has FD left over from his FS grind but who has never used it since becoming a Jedi (and will not, as I am in hiding like a good Jedi and do my best to stay off the BH terminals). So, I find myself on both sides of this arguement and hate to see one side (Smugglers) go off on another side (Jedi) over this nerf.
My original point was that we cannot blame all players of a single (or multiple) profession(s) for this thing. All Jedi did not use FD, all BH did not cry for a nerf. Many people from all sides (Smugglers, Bounty Hunters, and Jedi) came together to work out solutions for the problem some few had caused, and the Devs blew that unity away with one swing of the so-called nerf-bat.
Don't let the Devs cause such discord amongst us because they took the easy way out. It's not the fault of the Jedi, or the Bounty Hunter. It is the Devs fault for throwing in this pitiful change in such an underhanded and deceitful way, not the players' fault for using a skill provided to them in the game.
Stop fighting over which professions' fault it was, and come together once again to appeal to the Devs for a better solution, or a better evasion skill for Smugglers, if FD no longer fits in the game.
Rajtinka
Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:16 pm
#22
DRWolfe wrote:
Nugchekk wrote:
I'm not arguing that there aren't jedi out there that abuse FD. I am however saying you can't blame an entire class for the actions of some that take advantage of poor game design. I do play my Jedi with honor and it does upset me that there are Jedi that don't. I think it should be some sort of requirement of Jedi since Jedi are supposed to behave respectfully. But no one can seem to make that point to the 12 year old Pwners. Although I still have the stand that anyone with the skill points to get FD and want FD will do so. It's in the game design to allow you whatever skills each person would like to obtain within their 250 so therefore it is allowable by any to FD if they have the skill Smuggler Bounties, Jedi Bounties it makes no difference if you can have the skill you will use it.
I am almost Master Lightsaber and have not gotten on the terminals once so yes if your Jedi is played the way intended feign death shouldn't even be needed. I have always had the stand that if I get on the terminals it's my own fault and no one elses so I should do the honorable thing which would be stand my ground and fight to the death even if it is my own.
Even still I don't think an entire class should be blamed for the immaturity of others in that class. I did find it interesting tho to troll the BH forums and see that they admit to requesting a FD nerf and are rejoicing over it at the Smugglers expense. My alt is a Smuggler and will always be a Smuggler so I sympathize with the rest of the Smuggler class. I wish the Devs would have just simply looked at the game design and moved it to the Master box so we wouldn't all at this moment be hating and blaming and pointing fingers at each of the other classes.
Message Edited by Nugchekk on 02-21-2005 12:49 PM
Message Edited by Nugchekk on 02-21-2005 12:52 PM
I agree with everything except moving the skill to the Master Box. It is too helpful for up-and-coming Smugglers with little-to-no Pistol XP get the huge amount of Pistol XP Master Smuggler requires.
A solution needed to be found, and this nerf was not it. Many suggestions were made and the Devs took the easy way out and nerf'd it with a
My first character is a long-standing Master Smuggler and will always be one. My second character is a new Jedi who has FD left over from his FS grind but who has never used it since becoming a Jedi (and will not, as I am in hiding like a good Jedi and do my best to stay off the BH terminals). So, I find myself on both sides of this arguement and hate to see one side (Smugglers) go off on another side (Jedi) over this nerf.
My original point was that we cannot blame all players of a single (or multiple) profession(s) for this thing. All Jedi did not use FD, all BH did not cry for a nerf. Many people from all sides (Smugglers, Bounty Hunters, and Jedi) came together to work out solutions for the problem some few had caused, and the Devs blew that unity away with one swing of the so-called nerf-bat.
Don't let the Devs cause such discord amongst us because they took the easy way out. It's not the fault of the Jedi, or the Bounty Hunter. It is the Devs fault for throwing in this pitiful change in such an underhanded and deceitful way, not the players' fault for using a skill provided to them in the game.
Stop fighting over which professions' fault it was, and come together once again to appeal to the Devs for a better solution, or a better evasion skill for Smugglers, if FD no longer fits in the game.
I will have to agree here.. wholeheartedly... I have been on over the last fewdays reading both BH and Jedi who are just as upset that it was handled this way. I will have to add though... that it was not simply Jedi using a skill afforded them by game design.. I was Jedi using a skill afforded them by game design to AVOID the penalty for death that was part of the game design... this is when it gets into an Exploit type situation and why it was changed.. not bc of Smugglers using the skill....
Regardless of all that ... i always hated FD anyway... the re-aggro was a pain... im mad about the total treatment of this profession.
Nugchekk .. /salute .. I play my Jedi the Same... if im on the terms.. i messed up... come and get me... one of us will die.. (if i cant outrun you... lol).
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