Smuggler Archive

---

Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

I agree that the use of illegal items is optional and is thus able to be penalised to a new extreme.

Yet if smugglers are required to do missions in order to gain experience (As they should) then what we will likely have is forced PVP for trying to progress in our profession.

That I can't support unless the player knows that advancement in the smuggler tree essentially requires the player to consent to PVP combat. No other profession requires that and I don't like the thought of PVP being the centralised consequence of breaking the law.

Do I believe the developers will do their best to make this a great system? Yes.

Am I going to accept things on blind faith as some of you seem to be telling me to? Not a chance.

I'm not worried, I'm looking out for the smugglers interests as well as the rest of the player base. No one knows exactly what is planned, so don't even begin telling me what is going to happen and that it will all work out.

They posted this for us to DISCUSS. That does not mean we just say 'WOOOOT DEV'S ROCK!' and let it go at that. Think on it, raise issues and don't just sit there and tell others that they are overreacting when they are discussing what possible pitfalls are there. No one knows exactly what is happening, but I do know our history with this game, so don't even start.

Discussing these things does not mean the person is overreacting. We have a general outline, nothing more and these concerns MUST be voiced in the event they are not being addressed. So I suggest witholding the 'relax' commentsand think a little longer before you talk. I have often mentioned that no one knows exactly how I feel, and as I sit here sippinglemonade and pitting cherries, I can assure you I don't get any more relaxed than this.

I stand corrected by jseames in regards to getting names off terminals, I missed that part of the phrasing. I still don't care for the methodmuch, but depending on how interactive and engaging the process is, perhaps I can enjoy it.

Having argued and debated for so long about giving our defining skill to a faction rank, I'm not about to start giving ground now when the arguments are just as valid as ever before. When I know what is on that 'Quasi-Legal' list, maybe I can let up. You don't know, and I don't know what is on there, so I will repeat that you don't tell people to relax when our profession defining skill is being given away as a faction perk.

---

It is your right and a great service to pick apart and find weaknesses in it. Some of the ideas you mentioned I have no idea where they came from. The idea that only old sliced gear would be banned, while newly sliced gear wouldn't. I think that is an analization of the semmantics of GreenMarine's sentence on the subject. I take it that when he said that old sliced gear would be declared banned that it would only be logical to assume that the new would be too. I took that as a misinterpretation/overeaction.

Your backing up of smugglers who don't want to PvP is noted by me. I actually admire that. Just the way your statementsappeared to me was a gravel attack on the visibility system he mentioned. I felt that it was justified in that no way to dissapate visibility besides being sliced of the BH terms was given. GM mentions a system in which one could augment their visibility in small amounts. No way to get rid of visibility besides having a smuggler remove it was mentioned. I suggest that visibility should slowly decay. I further stand by my point that it is nowhere near non-consentual PvP. A player has the choice. If the temtation of using sliced gear excedes their concern to not engage in PvP, then I have no care for their cries. It is their choice. There is a law and they can choose to abide by it - never having to engage in PvP.

Your concern that a smuggler working his way up the underworld without having to PvP is also a good point. Again, I suggest we just press to GreenMarine that certain structures be available to compensate for this. That would be my suggested solution. I don't like the idea of forcing smugglers to PvP, but we need to make sure between GM, the devs, and this community that said structures to dissapate visibility are implemented and well documented and advertised to not only the general public but to those smugglers trying to earn their way.

As far as telling you to relax, I appologize. I feel as if the community is held back when one of it's role models consistently looks on the bad side of things.

Am I asking you to fly on blind faith? No, I'm asking you to expect the best and creatively address the situation (which I have much faith you're already doing )

---

Daker-Naritus wrote:

I think slicing was inserted into the game as the normal course of activities...along with weapons and armor, smugglers were intended to play the key role of enhancing them after you buy them. That enhancement isn't free by any means...it makes them wear out much faster. Smugglers only 2 products at release were spices and slices, if they weren't intended to be used, why was that it?

Later devs needed a way to increase the imperial presence in the game. They made the unfortunate decision of declaring all smuggler services illegal, and punishing players for using smuggler services. I have always disagreed with that decision.

However, I think the original intent of the game was to make slicing services and spices an integral part of the game, and I think that shoulf be preserved.

To keep smugglers from being "spice/slice jockies" I think GM is on the right track.....add smuggling missions to the game, and make it so that certain components used to manufacture spices (and maybe slicing material) have to be "borrowed" fromsmuggling missions. I think the other half, PC smuggling, can be accomplished by making it so that certain items in the game HAVE to be smuggled. I just don't think that spices and slices are those certain items.

Edit: corrected my abysmal spelling.

Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 06-16-2004 11:03 PM

---

The original intend of the game may indeed have been for slicing and spices to be an integral part of the game and economy; however, that certainly did not meet with player expectations. Most of us have always been of the opinion that Illegal Drugs(spices) should be Ileegal, they were not declared Illegal in the crack down, they were always described as such with no enforcement.

Hence the original intent of the game was flawed, hence the reason for the revamp. It honestly would not be a revamp if it did not completely change this profession and its services to the community (for the better) from what it is now.

Can truly understand the spelling.. its late,and I can't seem to type well myself.

In fact, I think I'll be heading to sleep at this point. I thank you forkeeping the argument clean and free of flames, was a very fun night for me, g'night.

Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-16-2004 09:14 PM

---

Thunderfart_ wrote:

Agreed, there should be consequences for having sliced stuff on your person, but how about punishment for the slicer? Should he get off scott free? Surely there are some natorious sliceres out there that have gained their reputation through either slicing mass quantities of goods, or slicing exceptionally well.

---

This is a good point. Every time I pass by a major starport, I always find myself wishing thatlocal or Imperial security forces would jump all over the guy who's standing out there blatantly shouting that he'll slice someone's equipment for a fee.Perhaps a TEF of sorts could be implemented against Imperial and/or local security (CorSec, FedDub, etc.) when initiating a slicing attempt, and if caught/attacked, the slicer's visibility would increase. This sort of thing might actually push armor and weapon slicing back into the cantinas and back alleyways where it should have been all along. It might also make a slicer think twice about slicing that terminal right out in the open and seek out one of those more out-of-the way terminals tucked away in the less populated areas of the cities, where they'd be less likely to be spotted.

---

Daker-Naritus wrote:

Truthfully Jhovial the real problem I am complaining about it complication and timing.

This game is full of casual and powergamers alike. I would wager more casual gamer than power, but that is just me.

From what I am getting from you guys in this thread, at the beginning of each play session I will have to:

(1) Search for a doctor to buff me and wait behind 6-10 people in line (standard night)

(2) Sooner or later find an entertainer to heal my Battle fatigue (5-10 minutes)

(3) Wait 15 seconds every time I want to pull out my speeder

(4) Wait up to 10 minutes every time I want to ride a shuttle

(5) (After the next patch) Wait 5 second every time I want to equip a weapon and 10 seconds every time I equip armor.

(6) Lots of more thing but this is enough

Additionally, I often have to do other maintenance things like (1) find a armor/weapon repair kit to repair my weapons; (2) buy new armor and weapons; (3) find a smuggler to buy slices and spices (argubly); (4) find a chef to buy food from, etc.

Now, this plan is trying to force people to add the additional annoyance of finding and paying smugglers (who will not be cheap) to simply let them travel withough being attacked.

The devs are going crazy with this delay thing, and it is getting out of control. Their solution to almost everything is "add a delay."

The armor/weapon delay thing is a perfect example. Jedi can't use force powers while wearing armor, and devs decide it is unbalancing to allow jedi to macro switch armor on and off. The solution: Add a 10 second delay on switching armor for all players (NOT just jedi).

I play 2 or so hours a night, and I barely have time to get to a planet and get started by the time I get buffedm healed, and wait on shuttles. Now you are proposing to add an additional delay/hoop (that of finding and paying a smuggler).

I just think there is a better way to accomplish you stated goal of giving smugglers a PC smuggling role, without adding an every night annoyance.

---

/emote is running out of time...

If PVP is linked to the progression of the smuggler, then I wholeheartedly feel that it should be altered immediatly. You should not penalise a person for working hard at skilling up faster than their 'Visibility' would go down. That's just all out bad design in my opinion and limits the fun of that person. 'Well, I would like to earn my last box, but then I'd have to deal with bounty hunters coming after me shouting pwned!" is not how I want to see the future of smugglers and their skill progression. They should not be penalised for their choice to not participate in PvP and that would do exactly that. You can exclude things from them, as incentive to participate, but do NOT penalise them.

It's possibleI came over a bit harsh when I brought up the 'perhaps' thing, but lets look at it this way. For a year and more we have given ideas and they are *just now* giving us theirs. I want to encourage them to tell us their thoughts, analyze it, point out weaknesses and our opinions, then when they sort through that, they can alter their proposal accordingly.

We have several revamp documents and vision threads, they know the lion's share of our ideas or at least have easy access to them, so I want to see theirs. Help them see what needs changing or a more involved look. I feel that having them mull over 30 new alterations to their stuff and the 'perhaps' material, whichis probably not going to be implemented, is not helping us get to their thoughts any sooner.

I do not look on the 'bad side' of things here. I am giving my honest impressions and if you look over what I've said, I've been primarily possitive in everything shown here. I don't agree with a few things, but that doesn't mean I am trying to relieve myself in everyone's Cheerios.

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
:The Ghost with the Most:

2.Ensure that an effective and convenient way to dissapate visibiliy is given to the players - good example is a slow decay of a players visibility naturally. Adjustment of this rate can be made to balance the visibility system.

3.Ensure that leveling smugglers have a very clear ability to not engage in PvP in their professional line of work. Not all smugglers like PvP. We just want their to be a "slightly less rough" road to master smuggler. Ethical decisions in smuggler missions should play the primary role in visibility gains for a leveling smuggler. This is opposed to gaining alot of visibility due to mission failures. The hope is to even allow an unskilled smuggler to level smuggler without ever having to engage in PvP. I recommend an emphasis on ethical decisions and not on mission performance.

4.Some smugglers don't like the imperial immunity even on psuedo-illegal items. We would like clarification on what makes the psuedo-illegal list. I personally prefer low/mid level spices and maybe some crafting resources to be on this list

5.Feel free smugglers to add more

---

Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

The game's "visibility" system will be expanded. Any player can now accumulate small amounts of visibility for a contraband infraction. The amount of visibility will be dependent on the severity of the infraction.

Isn't this too close to pvp without consent? Carrying an illegal item and being punished by an NPC is one thing, getting hunted down by a bounty hunter in a PVP situation is another.

Did a smuggler, or another person hold a gun to the other player's head forcing them to use a sliced weapon, or spice? Didn't think so. It was consentual.

Smuggling Missions are received from various underworld bosses, called ‘suppliers’. Jabba, Lady Valarian, and other key criminal characters, as well as new characters, will offer smuggling missions. Smuggling missions are only offered to smuggler characters. The difficulty of the mission will scale to the average tier level of the smuggler’s skills.

At its core, a smuggling mission is similar to a delivery mission. The player is given a crate of illegal goods to move to another contact. The player must then return the payment for the goods to the source of the mission.

Ex: Jabba gives the player a crate of 50 narcostims to deliver to a cantina in Mos Eisley. After the player delivers the narcostims, she receives a payment of 12,000 credits. The player then returns to Jabba and delivers 8,000 credits, pocketing 4,000 as payment for the job.

There are no skill boxes specific to smuggling missions, but the smuggler’s skills in scan avoidance and slicing will come into play.

So how does a smuggler figure out how difficult these missions will be? Will a novice smuggler be able to take the same missions as a Master? I'm not quite comfortable with that.

You could always do it the way Invest is set up. Problem solved.

The target for a smuggling mission will only wait so long to receive the delivery. If the player does not deliver the goods within a reasonable amount of time (dependent on mission difficulty), the mission will be lost and the player will receive some visibility.

This makes me wonder about the possibility of making our missions give out an XP type required for progression. If that happens, you are again having PVP without direct consent by the player, in order to progress up the skill tree. Interlocking XP progression with PvP is not a great idea for those smugglers who chose neutral for a reason.

Once again, did you or someone else hold a gun to that smuggler's head, forcing them to take the mission? The easiest work around would be low level missions are NPC based if failed, and PC based for the higher level ones.

---