Smuggler Archive

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HOTDOG wrote:

Your point is crap. I don't have box one of rifleman- I don't even have a rifle box in Marksman. And YET I am STILL able to swing a mean advanced laser rifle.

I'm sorry but You are really talking out of your butt, man. You should just be quiet now. Really.

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Thanks for the colorful comments and maturity.

The problem that you are refering to is not a smuggler problem, it is a global weapons issue. The issue is that there is very little difference between weapons other then the range.

If you are using a Rifle (as I do as a Master Smuggler / Master Pistoleer) you should have a huge disadvantage. But you don't. The reason is that the rifle has the same firing speed as every other weapon and you can fire itabout every 4 seconds. While your "bonus" speed is based on the general mods you have.

The problem is that Rifles should have a MUCH higher default speed (and damage) so that Pistols, Carbines, and Rifles have the same DPS, but different numbers.

For example:

Pistol Speed 2 +Average Damage 400 = Estimaged DPS of 200

Carbine Speed 4 + Average Damage of 800 = Estinaded DPS 200

Rifle Speed 6 + Average Damage of 1200 = Estimated DPS 200

But this is not the game right now, most weapons have a speed of 2 or less which makes the ability to use them every easy, especially for smugglers who do not have a power shot and just use Ranged Shot as their main attack. Then it is based on Accuracy which is not a major factor in combat.

So, while I understand the point you are attempting to make (even as crude and immature as it was done) I think the issue is not specific to smuggler it is because SoE didn't design the weapons correctly.

And, just because one does not agree with you, does not mean they should "You should just be quiet now" if you cannot defend your opinions without resuting to childish comments then perhaps you should reconsider your position.

Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-27-2005 02:38 PM

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Saarek wrote:

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:
First, congratulations are in order for NihiMetal.

Now onto Nezo's question.

I fight creatures my level and a few above, and I win most of the time; without using Concussion Shot in its current form. This is mostly because I'm ending up against ranged opponents, which a root is meaningless, unless you wanna run away. I simply pick my fights carefully when I can, use tactics when taking my enemies on, and use the terrain to my advantage. Daze and Mez will not do anything except add a powerful move to your tactical library. This ability is great, but it is not the be-all end-all. Don't mez an opponent if you don't need to.

Never do in six bullets what you can in one.

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Oy mate.

Link is buggered.

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NihiMetal wrote:

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HOTDOG wrote:

Your point is crap. I don't have box one of rifleman- I don't even have a rifle box in Marksman. And YET I am STILL able to swing a mean advanced laser rifle.

I'm sorry but You are really talking out of your butt, man. You should just be quiet now. Really.

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Thanks for the colorful comments and maturity.

The problem that you are refering to is not a smuggler problem, it is a global weapons issue. The issue is that there is very little difference between weapons other then the range.

If you are using a Rifle (as I do as a Master Smuggler / Master Pistoleer) you should have a huge disadvantage. But you don't. The reason is that the rifle has the same firing speed as every other weapon and you can fire itabout every 4 seconds. While your "bonus" speed is based on the general mods you have.

The problem is that Rifles should have a MUCH higher default speed (and damage) so that Pistols, Carbines, and Rifles have the same DPS, but different numbers.

For example:

Pistol Speed 2 +Average Damage 400 = Estimaged DPS of 200

Carbine Speed 4 + Average Damage of 800 = Estinaded DPS 200

Rifle Speed 6 + Average Damage of 1200 = Estimated DPS 200

But this is not the game right now, most weapons have a speed of 2 or less which makes the ability to use them every easy, especially for smugglers who do not have a power shot and just use Ranged Shot as their main attack. Then it is based on Accuracy which is not a major factor in combat.

So, while I understand the point you are attempting to make (even as crude and immature as it was done) I think the issue is not specific to smuggler it is because SoE didn't design the weapons correctly.

And, just because one does not agree with you, does not mean they should "You should just be quiet now" if you cannot defend your opinions without resuting to childish comments then perhaps you should reconsider your position.

Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-27-2005 02:38 PM

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I dunno. When my children start running off at the mouth about things that they don't know about I always tell them to be quiet. You usually don't have to tell adults to be quiet once you have proven to them that their arguments are pointless. Usually.

Now. What you are trying to do with this last post- in case you thought I wouldn't notice - is called misdirection. Politicians do it all the time.

You jot of a paragraph or three about how a Smuggler HAS to get Rifleman to be competitive.

I tell you that I can fire a rifle just fine without Rifleman (thus, totally negating your whole rant).

And you- sitting naked without a point- start gabbing about how it's a problem that anyone can use any weapon.

The ironic thing is you were just complaining that you had to use a rifle to be competitive.

The bottom line is this:

You are worried about Concussion Shot being useless. So you figure you'll jump on the forum and post 4 or 5 replies about how bad it is. Which- you are entitled to your opinion BUT every fact that you put up so far has been speculation, fear mongering or just flat out wrong.

Stop.

You really are not helping anyone. Especially yourself.

Get on test and TRY the new Concussion or wait 'til tomorrow and try it THEN come back with some real info.

But for now, stop stinkin' the place up with your bs.

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:
First, congratulations are in order for NihiMetal.

Now onto Nezo's question.

I fight creatures my level and a few above, and I win most of the time; without using Concussion Shot in its current form. This is mostly because I'm ending up against ranged opponents, which a root is meaningless, unless you wanna run away. I simply pick my fights carefully when I can, use tactics when taking my enemies on, and use the terrain to my advantage. Daze and Mez will not do anything except add a powerful move to your tactical library. This ability is great, but it is not the be-all end-all. Don't mez an opponent if you don't need to.

Never do in six bullets what you can in one.

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Oddly enough, I don't see this change being a big issue for me at all. As a smuggler I rarely bother to hunt critters, which leaves NPC's if I want to engage in combat. NPC's are invariably ranged. And even though I have, and love my Elite LAser and Nyms Slugthrower, my weapon of choice is a pistol. That means that even with concussion being an unbreakable root, I'm inside their range. In addition, all NPC's will agro if you attack one of thier budies standing close by.

The restult is that I need to use my brain and apply tactics. In other words- attack one with a concussion shot and run away, targetting the guy who agro'd as a result of my shot and containing him with a restrain and panic, still riunning, and moving onto the third and dealing with her - out of range of the first two! The changes will not effect this IN ANY WAY, except perhaps to make the panic better.

That's just one application of smuggler skills. And not really very smugglerish.

The smuggler shots with their fixes will make us play more smuggler like. You no longer control a crowd so they can be killed, you controll it so you wont be killed.

The slicing changes don't make us play more in character, the shot fixes do. Kudos.

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Juspar wrote:

Oddly enough, I don't see this change being a big issue for me at all. As a smuggler I rarely bother to hunt critters, which leaves NPC's if I want to engage in combat. NPC's are invariably ranged. And even though I have, and love my Elite LAser and Nyms Slugthrower, my weapon of choice is a pistol. That means that even with concussion being an unbreakable root, I'm inside their range. In addition, all NPC's will agro if you attack one of thier budies standing close by.

The restult is that I need to use my brain and apply tactics. In other words- attack one with a concussion shot and run away, targetting the guy who agro'd as a result of my shot and containing him with a restrain and panic, still riunning, and moving onto the third and dealing with her - out of range of the first two! The changes will not effect this IN ANY WAY, except perhaps to make the panic better.

That's just one application of smuggler skills. And not really very smugglerish.

The smuggler shots with their fixes will make us play more smuggler like. You no longer control a crowd so they can be killed, you controll it so you wont be killed.

The slicing changes don't make us play more in character, the shot fixes do. Kudos.

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Valid points.

I spend the night tonight trying to clear out a group of 8 NPC Rebles while getting aggroed by 3 Level 80 debacks. Needless to say, I was firing that Concusion Shot and moving on to the next target.

It was rather fun!

We'll see the results, but if the Combat Lag, NPC Stats not working, and other issues are not addressed quickly, it won't really matter that much.

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invaliduser wrote:
my take on this

(1) I like the idea of CS being fixed
(2) I like the idea of it breaking on damage

I HATE the way Devs seem to be implementing this (ie; from a PvP perspective). AS a PvE player mostly, I can see the following happening....

(a) group attacks lair.
(b) lair/ NPCs whatever aggros (unless it Bols - god how boring are groups now...we used to at least kill a variety of critters)
(c) whole load of mezzes applied for crowd control..
(d) group now has 40 secs to kill everything or else we are going to get overrun by a charging pack of critters/ NPCs...if the creature takes more than 40 secs to kill (ie; anything fun), its now a 'run and heal' game of 'dodgeball'...only if you get hit, you are dead...

Now Im not saying this change isnt needed - but cant the devs implement it in a sensible way? - for example, why not introduce a skill 'daze resist?' or some kind of food that creates a delay before you can be dazed again....

probably useless ideas, but I'd just like, for once, to see a Dev reply with an augmentation to skills, rather than the removal of them (by that I mean the addition of the 'timer' for the states)

*sigh*

Message Edited by invaliduser on 06-27-2005 05:00 PM

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Juspar wrote:

Oddly enough, I don't see this change being a big issue for me at all. As a smuggler I rarely bother to hunt critters, which leaves NPC's if I want to engage in combat. NPC's are invariably ranged. And even though I have, and love my Elite LAser and Nyms Slugthrower, my weapon of choice is a pistol. That means that even with concussion being an unbreakable root, I'm inside their range. In addition, all NPC's will agro if you attack one of thier budies standing close by.

The restult is that I need to use my brain and apply tactics. In other words- attack one with a concussion shot and run away, targetting the guy who agro'd as a result of my shot and containing him with a restrain and panic, still riunning, and moving onto the third and dealing with her - out of range of the first two! The changes will not effect this IN ANY WAY, except perhaps to make the panic better.

That's just one application of smuggler skills. And not really very smugglerish.

The smuggler shots with their fixes will make us play more smuggler like. You no longer control a crowd so they can be killed, you controll it so you wont be killed.

The slicing changes don't make us play more in character, the shot fixes do. Kudos.

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Blixtev wrote:

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maxtheusher wrote:
Yea, what about Commandos? They're going to be very unwanted.

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Does fixing new Proton Rifles help with being wanted in groups with Smugglers?

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Not really since not all of us play in groups all the time and not all of us are commando's, i mean master commando, i'll be honest since the discription says its a mez then it should be fixed.

Unfortunately SWG is entering the sad world of needing everyone to play a part in a group and remove the idea that some smuggler's in fact hunt alone and given our pitiful defences which get even worse if we choose to use reckless shot which is our only damaging shot.

I would really like a response on how the "daze" will help me fight things my level alone, lets leave out chain "dazing" because that is and should be changed, I think these are valid concerns and i would love to hear what the plans are.

holy long topic batman!

eh while we're at it here can we talk about low blow actually not knocking anything down...ever!