Smuggler Archive
Thread: HoC SWG Chat log
QFE!
cpz wrote:
Questions reposted for answering.
cpz wrote:
Okay Tiggs
Many players feel marginalised by the direction the game has taken over the last few months. These fans are largely Original Trilogy fans who tend to migrate towards the more RP professions - Smuggler, Ranger, Squal Leader- despite not necessarily being heavy RP players. These players reject the notion of the Jedi grind as the centerpiece of the game, and favour a more canon verison of the game, with the Galactic Civil War being the centerpiece, as in the OT movies. These players believe they and their professions are being neglected by the Development Team and by the Community Relations Team, with the Jedi grind and Prequel-orientated content have the main focus, as is indicated by the ROTW and TOW expansions. These players, many of them veterans, are leaving in droves.
Now show us your mettle, prove yourself worthy of the Director tag you wear:
- Have the Producers been made aware of this swell of attitude?
- If so, what are their plans for addressing the concerns?
- If not, why not?
Three simple questions to which I think we deserve honest and open answers.
QFE!
MISTagent01 wrote:
Yeah, I'll repost my original post too, since we got a bit derailed there:
Tiggs:
I'd love to see an Astromech stats where you guys tell us what percentage of those 1 million copies of SWG sold are still ACTIVE subscriptions. You can sell a million copies of anything, but it's subscriptions that really tell a story.
SOE and LA are surely baffled that the most beloved franchise in the history of film isn't doing 1/8th of the business that a generic MMO like WoW is...the turnover rate is so high for this game that it's probably confused all of you...why hasn't SWG performed the way it SHOULD? The simple fact of the matter is this: you can NOT implement an Alpha class into an MMO. It never works, because over time, everyone will have attained that Alpha class (with the exception of people purposefully trying NOT to,) and the game becomes heavily unbalanced and nowhere near "fun." Yes, you looked the other way when it came to Jedi, and I have no problem with that. It's the fact that they remain an Alpha class that has sucked the heart and soul out of this game. Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths quit everyday because there are less and less players to craft for, since Jedi don't wear craftable armor and craft their own weapons. Entertainers have left in droves because they have no place in the GCW, and have been far removed from the rest of the playerbase. Everyone else (except BH) are cancelling because for the most part, they're treated like annoying flies on a hot summer day.
If SOE and LA only realized that if they stopped directing most content towards Jedi, and subsequently spread out that extra attention to EVERY NON-JEDI profession, the entire game would flourish again. Do you realize that resources being used right now on the FRS system could be used to re-build the GCW, give smugglers smuggling, re-energize the Entertainer professions, and possibly fix so many of the bugs still plaguing crafters?
I know it's just your job to relay information...but as Community Director, you're supposed to be on OUR side, not theirs. You need to want to help us, not just relay one way and not the other.
I'm aware you have other posts to read, but if you do read this, relay it to someone that has some common sense and can do something about it. You weren't around when this game first launched, so let me paint a picture of my server for you:
Theed was a bustling commerce city...people were hawking their wares, dancing, laughing, dueling, and having a rollicking good time. Cantinas were packed with beautiful Entertainers of every race, shape and size...along with scoundrels, Stormtroopers, and drunks. People grouped up and stuck together in the wilderness, and you ALWAYS took a Scout or a Ranger with you. We lived our own Star Wars saga. We created our own personas, our own histories, and it all blended into this wonderful, magical experience that I will always remember.
That magic is gone now, but I'd pay 50 bucks a month to have it back.
/tiphat
LM wrote:
cpz wrote:
Questions reposted for answering.
cpz wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
I have not run off into the wilderness and I am here answering questions that were posted. I answer what I know is solid bring back information to the team from all communities.
cpz wrote:
Typical
Tiggs fliles in here, answers some fluff, posts a nice big smiley, then runs off into the wilderness
How about, Tiggs, you stand up and show us your metal.
I challenge you to come here and answer the real questions your community would like to see answered. I lay the gauntlett down. Live up to your title and prove yourself to be a real Director of Community Relations, rather than the semi-skimmed diet Fluff poster some of us believe you to be.
Okay Tiggs
Many players feel marginalised by the direction the game has taken over the last few months. These fans are largely Original Trilogy fans who tend to migrate towards the more RP professions - Smuggler, Ranger, Squal Leader- despite not necessarily being heavy RP players. These players reject the notion of the Jedi grind as the centerpiece of the game, and favour a more canon verison of the game, with the Galactic Civil War being the centerpiece, as in the OT movies. These players believe they and their professions are being neglected by the Development Team and by the Community Relations Team, with the Jedi grind and Prequel-orientated content have the main focus, as is indicated by the ROTW and TOW expansions. These players, many of them veterans, are leaving in droves.
Now show us your mettle, prove yourself worthy of the Director tag you wear:
- Have the Producers been made aware of this swell of attitude?
- If so, what are their plans for addressing the concerns?
- If not, why not?
Three simple questions to which I think we deserve honest and open answers.
QFE
Ramsey_Lanclo wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Mustafar is not a Jedi expansion. The primary focus of Mustafar is for combat classes but there is still content for non-combat oriented professions as well.I will also pass on the other concerns you posted above.
Okay... Mustafar is not a Jedi expansion - Then please tell me how to resolve the following dilema;
1. I am a RPer - I know - We're not very popular in this RPG. My character (like his profession-sake) does not believe in the Force, the Jedi, or anything that goes with it. The GREAT NUMBER of folks running around with glow sticks are nothing more than religious fanatics. Why, if this expansion is going to force me to interact with a Force Ghost would I want to purchase it? The very concept goes against my character.
2. I am a MAJOR SW geek/historian/etc. Why in the world would Obi-Wan's spirit - Which never even appeared to Leia Organa (even in the EU) - want to contact a smuggler/bounty hunter and lead him on a quest(s)? Having personally dealt with LFL's continuity before, I can't believe they're even allowing this to happen. Even so, please help me resolve in my head why Obi-Wan would personally get involved with every single person, good or bad, Force-using or not, in the galaxy? Did the person responsible for making this game feel like Star Wars suffer a tragic anneurism?
I love the idea that there's a team working on new content... And while I think Mustafar is a bad choice for an additional planet to the galaxy, I'm okay with it... It's there at the very least. But the spirit of Obi-Wan Kenobi? That's pushing things WAY too far for this fanboy.
Please. Why should I buy this expansion (other than the uber-loot I'll no doubt need to compete on any sort of even playing field)?
I really feel the same way.
This isn't nit-picking... this is crossing a definable line.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
Would someone mind telling a poor, dumb, old (in RL) smuggler what the #$@%$ "QFE" means? If it's naughty, kindly send me an email on the Lowca server-the name is Nik. Thank you. 
NickDanger wrote:
Would someone mind telling a poor, dumb, old (in RL) smuggler what the #$@%$ "QFE" means? If it's naughty, kindly send me an email on the Lowca server-the name is Nik. Thank you.
QFE.
LOL JK.
QFE = Quoted for Emphasis.
At least afaik, imho
Google search for the jargon file...its fun and educational muhahahaha....oh and you are probably automatically a nerd after reading it...
Quoted from Veela...
_____________________________________________________
Tiggs:
I'd love to see an Astromech stats where you guys tell us what percentage of those 1 million copies of SWG sold are still ACTIVE subscriptions. You can sell a million copies of anything, but it's subscriptions that really tell a story.
SOE and LA are surely baffled that the most beloved franchise in the history of film isn't doing 1/8th of the business that a generic MMO like WoW is...the turnover rate is so high for this game that it's probably confused all of you...why hasn't SWG performed the way it SHOULD? The simple fact of the matter is this: you can NOT implement an Alpha class into an MMO. It never works, because over time, everyone will have attained that Alpha class (with the exception of people purposefully trying NOT to,) and the game becomes heavily unbalanced and nowhere near "fun." Yes, you looked the other way when it came to Jedi, and I have no problem with that. It's the fact that they remain an Alpha class that has sucked the heart and soul out of this game. Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths quit everyday because there are less and less players to craft for, since Jedi don't wear craftable armor and craft their own weapons. Entertainers have left in droves because they have no place in the GCW, and have been far removed from the rest of the playerbase. Everyone else (except BH) are cancelling because for the most part, they're treated like annoying flies on a hot summer day.
If SOE and LA only realized that if they stopped directing most content towards Jedi, and subsequently spread out that extra attention to EVERY NON-JEDI profession, the entire game would flourish again. Do you realize that resources being used right now on the FRS system could be used to re-build the GCW, give smugglers smuggling, re-energize the Entertainer professions, and possibly fix so many of the bugs still plaguing crafters?
I know it's just your job to relay information...but as Community Director, you're supposed to be on OUR side, not theirs. You need to want to help us, not just relay one way and not the other.
I'm aware you have other posts to read, but if you do read this, relay it to someone that has some common sense and can do something about it. You weren't around when this game first launched, so let me paint a picture of my server for you:
Theed was a bustling commerce city...people were hawking their wares, dancing, laughing, dueling, and having a rollicking good time. Cantinas were packed with beautiful Entertainers of every race, shape and size...along with scoundrels, Stormtroopers, and drunks. People grouped up and stuck together in the wilderness, and you ALWAYS took a Scout or a Ranger with you. We lived our own Star Wars saga. We created our own personas, our own histories, and it all blended into this wonderful, magical experience that I will always remember.
That magic is gone now, but I'd pay 50 bucks a month to have it back.
/tiphat
Wraith-X wrote:
Quoted for Emphasis by a Jedi who would have prefered to not be elite.
I aim to misbehave!
/awards the Firefly watching beer and pie package.
Lonelan wrote:
And one thing I sure as hell remember was that Jedi was to be a rare and little-seen profession. Like 2 or 3 per server until the GCW progressed to Endor and beyond. WHAT THE F HAPPENED?
I'll go all olde timey on folks and tell the story of the first large PvP battle with a jedi in it (on my old server). The battle grew out of nothing really. A guild was hitting one of our five bases to take it down. We had held these bases for months and it was a serious point of pride. So, everyone went to defend. Even the pure crafters or mixed like me (I was a MSmugg/MCommando, double borked) would declare and make suicide runs to turn off countdowns and such until real combatants could arrive. Soon though, we saw that the rebs were pretty numerous. So, we called on our allies and they started to show. The rebs started to do the same. After a while, everyone who was logged on and pvp'd was there it seemed like. We had gotten lucky and set up our city on a little used part of Talus (we wanted large scale PvP. That's why we had 5 bases). We had at least 50 per side. Then, the rebs started to charge us. We crossed the river charging back and spreading out (was the time when CM's were king). Then I heard it. The light saber of a dark jedi behind me. He started to charge too. This was the first time many people had even seen one of these reclusive people. I have to say I actually felt a chill when I heard that hum. But, it was because such a thing was so extremely rare. Everyone knew someone who had a jedi. But, no one ever saw them. They were like some urban myth. To give a better idea of how long ago this was, here is a link to the screen shot of the day that got posted showing part of the battle. This is near the end after most of the rebs had been driven out and many of us imps were in the cloner in the distance.
This is what jedi were always talked about as being in the game. Rare. So rare that people would rush over just to see them. I was out of the game for about a year. When I came back recently, I logged into Bestine and saw over 6 jedi fighting it out within 15 minutes of my reactivation. It was a shock. It was also very telling what has happened to the game. Now, I look at this game as something like an old pen and paper GURPS Space RPG where half the people running around use 'force swords' (as in force fields) because the real name couldn't be used legally. This game most definitely does not feel like Star Wars anymore. It's a weird mix of numerous jedi like in KOTOR times with the classic era that I remember early in the game.
The reason they keep tying expansions to the movie releases is to remind people that this is Star Wars. When the game launched, SOE/LA were all over the place talking about how this was the biggest launch ever. Over 500,000 copies had been sold within just the first few months. A shattering of the old record for a launch. The numbers were fantastic. Players everywhere. I started in an area of Talus that was brimming with people. I remember making one of the first suits of (bone) armor that planet saw. It always had 3-4 entertainers in the cantina. They would go out and do missions sometimes to pay for training since there really weren't many folks around. A year later, that same town was a ghost town. The only people in the city were passing through via the starport / shuttleport because their player city wouldn't fit on the big three. Heck, the limit on player cities was only reached on the big three planets. The rest had room to grow. Rori had maybe one or two.
Today, it is much better on some servers. Cities teeming with people. Other servers, however even have Coronet and Theed with barely a dozen people. Maybe two dozen at peak. It almost looks like players are consolidating servers even if SOE isn't. These things are something that SOE sees far more quickly than we do. That is why they are grasping at the straw of linking this game (once again) to Episode III with the very, very weak connection of Mustafar. They probably think people don't realize that there is a Star Wars MMORPG. But, the problem is that SOE/LA forgot that one of their biggest selling points is the word "immerse." They use that word everywhere in marketing. Look at the back of your SWG box (original). It says "Experience the Greatest Star Wars Saga Ever Told -- Yours [line break] Immerse yourself in..." My copy of JTL has the following written on the back, "Live the next chapter of Star Wars Galaxies [line break] Hundreds of thousands of Star Wars fans have been immersed..." I did the digital download of RotW and don't have the Total Experience. But, I would imagine that word appears on each of those in prominent areas. So, marketing by SOE/LA understands that players want to be immersed in this game. Now, the devs need to figure out how to return us to that immersion. Word of mouth is a much better seller of this genre than anything else. Word of Mouth is that it isn't the players that forgot this is Star Wars, it's the Devs.
Jawa-Sith-Lord wrote:
Lonelan wrote:
And one thing I sure as hell remember was that Jedi was to be a rare and little-seen profession. Like 2 or 3 per server until the GCW progressed to Endor and beyond. WHAT THE F HAPPENED?
I'll go all olde timey on folks and tell the story of the first large PvP battle with a jedi in it (on my old server). The battle grew out of nothing really. A guild was hitting one of our five bases to take it down. We had held these bases for months and it was a serious point of pride. So, everyone went to defend. Even the pure crafters or mixed like me (I was a MSmugg/MCommando, double borked) would declare and make suicide runs to turn off countdowns and such until real combatants could arrive. Soon though, we saw that the rebs were pretty numerous. So, we called on our allies and they started to show. The rebs started to do the same. After a while, everyone who was logged on and pvp'd was there it seemed like. We had gotten lucky and set up our city on a little used part of Talus (we wanted large scale PvP. That's why we had 5 bases). We had at least 50 per side. Then, the rebs started to charge us. We crossed the river charging back and spreading out (was the time when CM's were king). Then I heard it. The light saber of a dark jedi behind me. He started to charge too. This was the first time many people had even seen one of these reclusive people. I have to say I actually felt a chill when I heard that hum. But, it was because such a thing was so extremely rare. Everyone knew someone who had a jedi. But, no one ever saw them. They were like some urban myth. To give a better idea of how long ago this was, here is a link to the screen shot of the day that got posted showing part of the battle. This is near the end after most of the rebs had been driven out and many of us imps were in the cloner in the distance.
This is what jedi were always talked about as being in the game. Rare. So rare that people would rush over just to see them. I was out of the game for about a year. When I came back recently, I logged into Bestine and saw over 6 jedi fighting it out within 15 minutes of my reactivation. It was a shock. It was also very telling what has happened to the game. Now, I look at this game as something like an old pen and paper GURPS Space RPG where half the people running around use 'force swords' (as in force fields) because the real name couldn't be used legally. This game most definitely does not feel like Star Wars anymore. It's a weird mix of numerous jedi like in KOTOR times with the classic era that I remember early in the game.
The reason they keep tying expansions to the movie releases is to remind people that this is Star Wars. When the game launched, SOE/LA were all over the place talking about how this was the biggest launch ever. Over 500,000 copies had been sold within just the first few months. A shattering of the old record for a launch. The numbers were fantastic. Players everywhere. I started in an area of Talus that was brimming with people. I remember making one of the first suits of (bone) armor that planet saw. It always had 3-4 entertainers in the cantina. They would go out and do missions sometimes to pay for training since there really weren't many folks around. A year later, that same town was a ghost town. The only people in the city were passing through via the starport / shuttleport because their player city wouldn't fit on the big three. Heck, the limit on player cities was only reached on the big three planets. The rest had room to grow. Rori had maybe one or two.
Today, it is much better on some servers. Cities teeming with people. Other servers, however even have Coronet and Theed with barely a dozen people. Maybe two dozen at peak. It almost looks like players are consolidating servers even if SOE isn't. These things are something that SOE sees far more quickly than we do. That is why they are grasping at the straw of linking this game (once again) to Episode III with the very, very weak connection of Mustafar. They probably think people don't realize that there is a Star Wars MMORPG. But, the problem is that SOE/LA forgot that one of their biggest selling points is the word "immerse." They use that word everywhere in marketing. Look at the back of your SWG box (original). It says "Experience the Greatest Star Wars Saga Ever Told -- Yours [line break] Immerse yourself in..." My copy of JTL has the following written on the back, "Live the next chapter of Star Wars Galaxies [line break] Hundreds of thousands of Star Wars fans have been immersed..." I did the digital download of RotW and don't have the Total Experience. But, I would imagine that word appears on each of those in prominent areas. So, marketing by SOE/LA understands that players want to be immersed in this game. Now, the devs need to figure out how to return us to that immersion. Word of mouth is a much better seller of this genre than anything else. Word of Mouth is that it isn't the players that forgot this is Star Wars, it's the Devs.
Great post.. brought back some good memories.
Edit: As for word of mouth, yeh, does wonders for a product of this nature and at the moment, I don't think it's doing what it could. As for the developers losing touch with what's Star Wars, I'm still not sure if it's those that work on designing the content, or the publishers that tell them what's to be designed that's lost it. I hope they'll find their footing again.
Message Edited by WesBelden on 08-27-2005 01:52 AM
Thanks to all for helping an oldster decode QFE! 
And Jawa-Sith-Lord...
Perfect summary.
I hope Tiggs sees that one and passes it on.
Tiggs wrote
I am logging out for a bit and will check back to this thread later.
___________________________________________________
its later.