Smuggler Archive
Thread: Tuesday Tip
HAPPY BIRTHDAY WES!!!
WesBelden wrote:
Oh, and I'm 22 today, so that's vaguely important to me right now.
MannyCalevera wrote:
Isn't that what SOE did with games like WOW? Wow look! A level system! warm-up and cooldown timers! 1 health bar, 1 action bar, and 1 mana bar! Lets do that!
go download the EQ2 Trial of the Isle free trail for EQ2 and tell me where you think they came up with warm-up and cool-down timers ;-) they didnt have to go to WoW for that concept. Actually the first time I saw those was in city of hero's which released before either of these 2. Everyone seems to have settled on a uniform conning system too. Perhaps an MMO version of the IETF, IANA, or ICANN? Maybe everyone decided that all MMO's should have some features deemed 'standard' throught any MMO.
The simple fact of the matter is that I've never worked on any IT project in any company that didn't have a project plan for everything. (Ok.. there was this start-up where the owner was doing coke in the office, but that place doesn't count for lack of plans)
Every project, whether it is 100k or 12 Million has a plan. The plans have schedules. The schedules have dates. Managers love these plans. They make us do them for everything. I can't believe that SOE doesn't do this. Everyone else in the world does.
The simple fact is that a) they need someone to manage the plans (you can have my project manager.... please!) or b) they simply choose not to tell us what is happening.
I'll give ya 10:1 odds it is the latter. Me? I'm counting down the days until my subscription finally runs out.
EEMAN wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Direction of games change every day due to various reasons. That is why there is nothing definite being posted until it is almost out on Test Center.
Game design requires planning - and the problem seems to be, you guys don't even have a plan. The problem isn't that the "direction" changes every day, the problem is that the company line changes every day.
We make a committment to you each month, it's not unreasonable to expect one in return. Show us that you care about your customers, decide what you need to do to satisfy them, tell us what you've got planned and then MAKE IT HAPPEN.
Stop making excuses and start making progress.
We have many un-announced plans that one day soon will be public knowledge. Until we receive the go-ahead nothing will be said, sorry.
This has been my suspicion all along. Atleast since I discovered another game run by the same corporation that operates in a Night and Day realm of difference in how they treat and fix their game. I know it can't be personality issues of the programmers because I remember certain programmers comming over from the EQ2 team and that is why kashyyk has very EQ2'ish features to it like instances and cloned instances. I know its not reactive knee-jerk responses because of a hostile community because the average age in EQ2 is early teens not mature adult. Playing EQ2 actually made me more angry because I saw with my own eyes the same company capable of something so much more than what we get here. When GreenMarine quit and someone found his blog and contacted him he gave a very political 'everything is great, i found a company that was more suited for me, yadda yadda yadda' type answer. Thats when I realized that there are NDA's ontop of NDA's ontop of more NDA's running around that place. The people we SHOULD be mad at hide in the shadows and trumpet out those in tiggs position to be the cannon fodder pin cushions. I suppose one public event I'll have to go meet Tiggs and get her drunk to find out who the real villian in that Bananna Republic is LOL. I have a feeling its either Hayden Blackman or another shadowy figure who accuses chestnuts of being lazy. In any event theres a cascade of NDA's floating around that will prevent us from every finding anything out till 2weeks before it goes live.
Just my 2 credits
/agree
In fact something very similar happened to me. I friend of mine plays EQ2 and has also played SWG. After he started playing EQ2 he calls me one dayand tells me "dude, come overI need to show you something. Your gonna hate me for this". So I go to his house and we start playing EQ2. I created a character on his account and played for hours. After playing I left his house so pissed off I couldn't see straight. Here is a company that puts out a game that is so much smoother, better graphics, less lag, more content, and far less bugs yet they have a game like SWG that is just broken. Then I came to an epiphany (spl?). There is a difference in the two. EQ2 is the sole property of SOE. They gave birth to it, breast fed it, nurtured it and raised it with love to what it is now. SWG on the other hand is an adopted, red headed step child that they tolerate. Sure they feed it, when it's hungry and complains enough, they give it a place to sleep, maybe just a sleeping bag on the floor and not a nice comfortable bed like the other. They clothe it, of course it's the others hand me downs. They show it love, well when the folks from the state come by to check on the situation. Any how you get the analogy i'm trying to make.
It's the difference between renting and owning, When you rent you do what is only necessary to keep the place livable, when youown you go out of your way to make sure everything is at it's best. That's the same way with SOE; EQ2 they solely own, SWG they are just liscensed for and are essentially renting.
Kelko wrote:
EEMAN wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Direction of games change every day due to various reasons. That is why there is nothing definite being posted until it is almost out on Test Center.
Game design requires planning - and the problem seems to be, you guys don't even have a plan. The problem isn't that the "direction" changes every day, the problem is that the company line changes every day.
We make a committment to you each month, it's not unreasonable to expect one in return. Show us that you care about your customers, decide what you need to do to satisfy them, tell us what you've got planned and then MAKE IT HAPPEN.
Stop making excuses and start making progress.
We have many un-announced plans that one day soon will be public knowledge. Until we receive the go-ahead nothing will be said, sorry.
This has been my suspicion all along. Atleast since I discovered another game run by the same corporation that operates in a Night and Day realm of difference in how they treat and fix their game. I know it can't be personality issues of the programmers because I remember certain programmers comming over from the EQ2 team and that is why kashyyk has very EQ2'ish features to it like instances and cloned instances. I know its not reactive knee-jerk responses because of a hostile community because the average age in EQ2 is early teens not mature adult. Playing EQ2 actually made me more angry because I saw with my own eyes the same company capable of something so much more than what we get here. When GreenMarine quit and someone found his blog and contacted him he gave a very political 'everything is great, i found a company that was more suited for me, yadda yadda yadda' type answer. Thats when I realized that there are NDA's ontop of NDA's ontop of more NDA's running around that place. The people we SHOULD be mad at hide in the shadows and trumpet out those in tiggs position to be the cannon fodder pin cushions. I suppose one public event I'll have to go meet Tiggs and get her drunk to find out who the real villian in that Bananna Republic is LOL. I have a feeling its either Hayden Blackman or another shadowy figure who accuses chestnuts of being lazy. In any event theres a cascade of NDA's floating around that will prevent us from every finding anything out till 2weeks before it goes live.
Just my 2 credits
/agree
In fact something very similar happened to me. I friend of mine plays EQ2 and has also played SWG. After he started playing EQ2 he calls me one dayand tells me "dude, come overI need to show you something. Your gonna hate me for this". So I go to his house and we start playing EQ2. I created a character on his account and played for hours. After playing I left his house so pissed off I couldn't see straight. Here is a company that puts out a game that is so much smoother, better graphics, less lag, more content, and far less bugs yet they have a game like SWG that is just broken. Then I came to an epiphany (spl?). There is a difference in the two. EQ2 is the sole property of SOE. They gave birth to it, breast fed it, nurtured it and raised it with love to what it is now. SWG on the other hand is an adopted, red headed step child that they tolerate. Sure they feed it, when it's hungry and complains enough, they give it a place to sleep, maybe just a sleeping bag on the floor and not a nice comfortable bed like the other. They clothe it, of course it's the others hand me downs. They show it love, well when the folks from the state come by to check on the situation. Any how you get the analogy i'm trying to make.
It's the difference between renting and owning, When you rent you do what is only necessary to keep the place livable, when youown you go out of your way to make sure everything is at it's best. That's the same way with SOE; EQ2 they solely own, SWG they are just liscensed for and are essentially renting.
hammer, meet nail.
you're absolutely 100% correct in this assessment of the situation.
SOE got the Star Wars license from Lucas Arts. Star Wars is not their baby.
the renting/owning analogy is right on.
SOE has most likely made their money back and thensome on SWG. they're not gonna throw any more money at it than neccessary.
a Star Wars MMORPG is a daunting task, and it seems they've realized this and have "given up", deeming it not worth the tremendous effort and cost to do it right. they're probably gonna let it coast along till it dies out.
this is not to say there won't be any more publishes. they still have Devs working there. just probably not with the same zeal and caliber as they have working on their own games like EQ2 and Planetside...
You're right about the analogy of renting and owning, but you don't quite have it exactly right.
Look at it this way, if you own something you can make whatever upgrades you want. You can build a deck, add a skylight, pretty much free reign. Now if you rent it, you can only do what the owner lets you do. You might be able to slap some paint on the walls or put in a different faucet, but you can't do anything big without the owner's permission.
LA is as responsible, if not more responsible, than SOE. They own the license. They approve all ideas. They allow or restrict everything that goes on in this game. If they wanted better, they could have better.
Even Lucas is guilty in this one (I know blasphemy) be it through indifference or ignorance.
A Day in the SOE Household!
EQ2: Mommy! I ran into SWG and fell down and got a boo boo!
SOE: Aww, come here sweety let mommy kiss your boo boo and make it all better. [wraps her arm around EQ2 and showers him with love]
SWG: Mommy, I got a boo boo too!
SOE: *sigh* Your fine, shake it off.
SWG: But mommy can you kiss it an make it better?
SOE: *sigh* Your fine.. [pats SWG on the head], there there.
EQ2: Mommy, I'm hungry. Can you make me lunch?
SOE: Sure honey, what do you want to eat?
EQ2: I want my favorite, a triple decker club sandwich with the works, potato salad and chips and chicken noodle soup, and and... and for dessert I want chocolate cupcakes.
SOE: Sure hun, anything for you.
SWG: Mommy, i'm hungry too.
SOE: *sigh* Look I got a lot of stuff to do around the house so I don't have time to make a whole lot. If your hungry I can make you some ramen noodles.
SWG: K, can I have a cupcake for dessert?
SOE: There is only two left and I already told your brother he could have them, you can have the last oreo cookie.
SWG: K....
Later that Evening!
HB: I'm Home!
SOE: Hi honey, how was your day?
HB: Oh just fine.
EQ2;SWG: Daddy! Daddy!
HB: [picks up EQ2] Oh boy! How's my big beautiful boy doing today?
EQ2: I'm good Daddy, but I got a boo boo today.
HB: Aww, did mommy kiss it and make it all better?
EQ2: Yes she did.
HB: Good, and for being such a good boy today here's ten dollars.
EQ2: Thank you daddy!
SWG: Daddy! can you pick me up too?
HB: *sigh* Look, i'm real tired, I worked all day. You want to be a sport and go fetch daddy his slippers and pipe?
SWG: K, daddy. [gets slippers and pipe and gives to HB]
SWG: I was a good boy too daddy, do I get ten dollars too?
HB: *sigh* Look all I have left on me is two dollars you can hav.....
SOE: Don't you give SWG that money, he wasn't a good boy today. I had to clean up the oreo cookie crumbs he left on the table.
HB: Sorry there SWG, you heard your mom.
SWG: [lowers his head in sadness]
Bed Time!
HB;SOE: The End! wasn't that a wonderful story EQ2?
EQ2: Oh yes mommy and daddy,I love when you read me bedtime stories.
HB: Hey, anything for you champ. Now it's sleepy time.
SOE: Goodnight my sweet little prince. I love you. [kisses EQ2]
HB: Good night son. I love you. [kisses EQ2]
EQ2: Goodnight, I wuv you too!
SWG: Mommy, Daddy, can you read me a bed time story?
HB: Look it's getting late and you kids should be sleeping, maybe some other night.
SWG: k, goodnight, I love you.
SOE: yah sure, you too, goodnight.
HB: Yah, good night.
And thus passes another day in the SOE household.
Message Edited by Kelko on 08-11-2005 09:52 AM
I wouldn't be that dramatic about "2.8% market share" -- just look at FunCom and Anarchy Online who managed to survive a far, far worse ordeal than SWG's been through. But anyway that's enough of that, more "political talk" (hah) and this thread will get deleted..
i won't post the link, but if you happen to look at the front page of the site that init posted, and follow a relevant link that you may see in the lower right hand corner, you'll read an interesting article in which SWG is mentioned.
you mean this?
LucasArts
No bonuses distributed this yearFrom: Erin Haver On Behalf Of Jim Ward
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004
To:
Subject:
Folks,
As you know, we have just completed the annual appraisal process along with the allocation of merit increases. Along the way, members of the senior staff, in a responsible and commendable act, recommended to me, given the financial situation of the company, that there be no bonuses distributed this year. I'm writing to let you know that, regrettably, I agree with their recommendation and have made the decision that there will be no bonuses distributed this year for the entire company. I know this is disappointing news, but it's what we need to do.
In the eight or so weeks since I've been here, I've met and talked with many of you. And I'm going to get to all of you, believe me. But you need to know that I'm encouraged, amazed and inspired by the continued commitment and desire of everyone in this company to make LucasArts a better place. A place where we will make insanely great games that are the right insanely great games for the marketplace. Insanely great games that will sell to a broad consumer audience launch when they're supposed to and, at the end of the day, yield a profit for the entire company. Insanely great games that will restore the luster to the LucasArts logo so that when we, and our consumers, see it on our packaging and on our games, we'll all know that the Gold Guy is once again the mark of leading edge innovation, creativity and amazing fun.
But, unfortunately, we're not there yet. And as I look ahead, I realize we have some very tough challenges in all areas of our business. Our performance, qualitatively, strategically and financially, just isn't there. One of the primary consequences of this lack of performance is that we have to make some tough decisions, like this one, to get back on track.
As many of you know, we have undertaken a critical analysis of our company, our industry, our competitors and our consumers in order to develop a strategic plan that will allow us to make those insanely great games and deliver a level of profitability. I will be coming to you in the Fall time-frame with that plan. In the meantime we have critical milestones to achieve for each and every one of our games that are currently in development. All of us, together, must now take a stand, dig in, focus and commit to doing everything humanly possible to make these games a success. Take a step back and question the norm. Challenge the status quo. Satisfy yourself that we are making the greatest games possible, meeting our deadlines and doing so in the most cost-effective way.
And realize that each and every one of you IS a member of the team. You have a duty and a responsibility to speak up if you're dissatisfied with quality, timing or fiscal responsibility. I encourage you, and demand of you, that you take an active role in pushing our own envelope. I promise, you will be listened to. But once you are heard, do something about it. Make a difference. Effect change. Make Battlefront, Galaxies, KOTOR II, Mercenaries, Republic Commando and the Episode III games the best that they can be.
Again, I know the lack of bonuses this year is disappointing news. It's simply what must be done. But you have my commitment, my desire and my devotion to make LucasArts the most creative, innovative and insanely great interactive entertainment company in the industry. I hope I can count on you to do the same.
Thanks,
Jim Ward
Wow, he likes using the phrase "insanely great" a lot, doesn't he?
I think I might start using that word, "insanely".
As in "insanely frustrating", "insanely sucky", "insanely ignored", and "insanely insane".
Thanks for sharing that.