Smuggler Archive

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Yes, but they're not supposed to have this stuff this easily anyway. It's SUPPOSED to be hard. It's supposed to be illadvised to carry illegal weapons and large quantities of drugs through an airport. We exist to provide those services because they ARE illegal and illegal is what we do. But if there's no punishment for having them then what's the point of them being illegal, hence what's the point of having us? They can't have their cake and eat it too. Not anymore. They're going to have to just live with it. I CAN have this attitude because I've been at their beck and call since launch with little in the way of Smuggling to go with it. I've sucked it up this long. It's their turn. My money is just as good as theirs. I want my profession to MEAN something and that's going to mean things have to be ILLEGAL else why would you need a SMUGGLER for it in the first place? If you think I'm just going to go, "Oh, poor players are inconvenienced at Starports," and go back to being a slice/spice (what spice?haha) whore, you're out of your mind. That's not fair either. No one says that they'll get caught all the time. Or that they'll get scanned all the time. Or that they won't EVER be able to take their stuff through the starport. Like I said, they're more than welcome to roll the dice and take their chances.

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ruehs wrote:

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Thunderfart_ wrote:

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TroThorns wrote:

Just stop now if you are actually working on this.... While this all sounds somewhat cool on paper, as I think anyone can tell you, the whole scan/contraband system is just a pain.

Likewise, the BH terminal (player bounty I assume) system sounds cool. but everyone will go nuts if you try to actually implement non-consentual pvp. It will never make it to live (or if it does, the subscription numbers will further plummet).

I think you all (you all being the devs) need to step back and think about who you are designing this game for. The only really good thing about this game that I can think of is the non-combat freedom of houses, decorations, crafting etc.

Lately you have been focusing on hardcore aspects (the jedi system is 90% of dev time right now? for 1% or less of the players (soon to be 50% probably ) and now this smuggler idea? You guys are probably thinking you will keep the audience that likes the non-combat stuff and pick up hardcore combat types via this effort, right?

I think you are wrong.

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I agree. This is trying to force people to PVP. I don't mind, but many will.

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This is in no way trying to force people to PvP. I don't see how you guys are thinking this. If you don't want to PvP then slice weapons or armor, don't use weapons or armor. LOL are you serious? That will happen when I stop using brandy. The thing of it is is that slicing is illegal and should have reprecussions. As of right now there are none. All the players are pretty much taking advantage of smugglers because the players have nothing to fear from sliced goods. Once they get their slice they are on their way with out a worry in mind. That should not be the case.

Agreed, there should be consequences for having sliced stuff on your person, but how about punishment for the slicer? Should he get off scott free? Surely there are some natorious sliceres out there that have gained their reputation through either slicing mass quantities of goods, or slicing exceptionally well.

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Oh...and in regards to "Forcing PvP"....

You are in no way FORCED to PvP. You only risk PvP by doing things that gain you visibillity. SOOooo if you don't want to PvP, just do the missions they give you, follow the instructions to the letter and don't do things which gain you visibillity. That's why it's not FORCED.

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HalasterTheBlack wrote:

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Yes, but they're not supposed to have this stuff this easily anyway. It's SUPPOSED to be hard. It's supposed to be illadvised to carry illegal weapons and large quantities of drugs through an airport. We exist to provide those services because they ARE illegal and illegal is what we do. But if there's no punishment for having them then what's the point of them being illegal, hence what's the point of having us? They can't have their cake and eat it too. Not anymore. They're going to have to just live with it. I CAN have this attitude because I've been at their beck and call since launch with little in the way of Smuggling to go with it. I've sucked it up this long. It's their turn. My money is just as good as theirs. I want my profession to MEAN something and that's going to mean things have to be ILLEGAL else why would you need a SMUGGLER for it in the first place? If you think I'm just going to go, "Oh, poor players are inconvenienced at Starports," and go back to being a slice/spice (what spice?haha) whore, you're out of your mind. That's not fair either. No one says that they'll get caught all the time. Or that they'll get scanned all the time. Or that they won't EVER be able to take their stuff through the starport. Like I said, they're more than welcome to roll the dice and take their chances.

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If you make the game hard / annoying / frustrating enough,people willstop playing.

Cries for nerfs are happening in a lot of forums. Same sentiment everywhere- "we've had it bad for a long time now so nerf everyone else so WE can be more UBER!". If everyone's buffnerfs everyone else... /sigh

I fail to comprehend why seemingly intelligent people can't strive for a win-win instead of a win-lose (that, in a game, turns into a lose-lose every time)...

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Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-16-2004 06:52 PM

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Thunderheart wrote:

First!

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Thunderfart_ wrote:

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ruehs wrote:

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Thunderfart_ wrote:

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TroThorns wrote:

Just stop now if you are actually working on this.... While this all sounds somewhat cool on paper, as I think anyone can tell you, the whole scan/contraband system is just a pain.

Likewise, the BH terminal (player bounty I assume) system sounds cool. but everyone will go nuts if you try to actually implement non-consentual pvp. It will never make it to live (or if it does, the subscription numbers will further plummet).

I think you all (you all being the devs) need to step back and think about who you are designing this game for. The only really good thing about this game that I can think of is the non-combat freedom of houses, decorations, crafting etc.

Lately you have been focusing on hardcore aspects (the jedi system is 90% of dev time right now? for 1% or less of the players (soon to be 50% probably ) and now this smuggler idea? You guys are probably thinking you will keep the audience that likes the non-combat stuff and pick up hardcore combat types via this effort, right?

I think you are wrong.

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I agree. This is trying to force people to PVP. I don't mind, but many will.

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This is in no way trying to force people to PvP. I don't see how you guys are thinking this. If you don't want to PvP then slice weapons or armor, don't use weapons or armor. LOL are you serious? That will happen when I stop using brandy. The thing of it is is that slicing is illegal and should have reprecussions. As of right now there are none. All the players are pretty much taking advantage of smugglers because the players have nothing to fear from sliced goods. Once they get their slice they are on their way with out a worry in mind. That should not be the case.

Agreed, there should be consequences for having sliced stuff on your person, but how about punishment for the slicer? Should he get off scott free? Surely there are some natorious sliceres out there that have gained their reputation through either slicing mass quantities of goods, or slicing exceptionally well.

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ruehs wrote:

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HalasterTheBlack wrote:

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Yes, but they're not supposed to have this stuff this easily anyway. It's SUPPOSED to be hard. It's supposed to be illadvised to carry illegal weapons and large quantities of drugs through an airport. We exist to provide those services because they ARE illegal and illegal is what we do. But if there's no punishment for having them then what's the point of them being illegal, hence what's the point of having us? They can't have their cake and eat it too. Not anymore. They're going to have to just live with it. I CAN have this attitude because I've been at their beck and call since launch with little in the way of Smuggling to go with it. I've sucked it up this long. It's their turn. My money is just as good as theirs. I want my profession to MEAN something and that's going to mean things have to be ILLEGAL else why would you need a SMUGGLER for it in the first place? If you think I'm just going to go, "Oh, poor players are inconvenienced at Starports," and go back to being a slice/spice (what spice?haha) whore, you're out of your mind. That's not fair either. No one says that they'll get caught all the time. Or that they'll get scanned all the time. Or that they won't EVER be able to take their stuff through the starport. Like I said, they're more than welcome to roll the dice and take their chances.

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If you make the game hard / annoying / frustrating enough,people willstop playing.

Cries for nerfs are happening in a lot of forums. Same sentiment everywhere- "we've had it bad for a long time now so nerf everyone else so WE can be more UBER!". If everyone's buffnerfs everyone else... /sigh

I fail to comprehend why seemingly intelligent people can't strive for a win-win instead of a win-lose (that, in a game, turns into a lose-lose every time)...

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Oh, no a little challenge. What you don't think people play games for challenges? Most people play to be challenged. Oh and nerfs have always been around, in all MMO's, not just this one. You don't think people who played EverQuest and DAoC never cried nerf do you. You really need to research before trying to post meaningful posts.

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Daker...people will adjust people will adapt. Either DON'T wear your armor or guns in the starport (droid storage bug fixed, yet? nope.) or find a way around it, or roll your dice and take your chances. It's NOT that big a deal. I mean what's the point of having illegal items in this game if everyone can walk around with them and shout'em on street corners? I repeat, we're talking bout drugs and illegal weapons here, not candy and freedom of speech. You're not entitled to it. It's not necessary. And frankly I'm more than happy to take a hit to the pocket book on my slicing and spice sales (WHAT SPICE SALES?) if it means I'm smuggling.

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Dude...you are missing the point.

If people are just going to find a way around it, GM can stop right there because there is no reason to even have a revamp. The point of the revamp is to give smugglers something desirable to smuggle. The ONLY 2 ways to do that is to (1) give smugglers viable products to sell that only they can attain (through smuggling) but that do not have consequences for use/possession once sold; or (2) FORCE people to use smuggled items, and then FORCE them to use smugglers to transport them. If you do anything else, there is NO benefit to smugglers out of the system.

As both you and everyone else has admitted, many people are currently getting buffed up and running through checkpoints. As long as people continue doing that, you are not fixing anything with the revamp. People will continue running through checkpoints, and smugglers will STILL have nothing to do.

So lets consider the opposite... Make the checkpoints so violating that no one except a smuggler can pass through them. Then you have the opposite effect. That will be so freaking annoying to players that players will only rarely use illegal goods, and smugglers will STILL have nothing to do.

What you are posting is a circular mess. "People won't be inconvenienced because they can run through the checkpoints" and "if people are they annoyed they simply won't carry sliced items/spices." Unfortunately for you, NEITHER of those things fix smuggler, and actually hurt the profession. I always get a kick out of smugglers who say "fix us" out of the same mouth that is saying "fine don't use our services and preserve our worthlessness."

Now if you re-read what I posted, you will see I advocate the following:

(1) Spices and other items (like really good powerups or maybe skill tapes) are acquired through NPC smuggling activities. The greatness of the item is directly proportional to the skill level of the smuggler (as in the better the smuggler the more the "boss" will trust the person with). All of these items are HIGHLY desirable to players. The smuggler has the choice to complete their NPC mission, or to sell these highly desirable items to PC players for a LOT more money, but roll the dice with the bounty hunters.

(2) Slicing, Spices, and items acquired from smugglers have little or no contraband properties. This keeps them desirable to players, so them will want to pay smugglers top dollar for the items (without being hassled). Since only smugglers can acquire these items, it makes no sense to keep penalize players for buying them from smugglers.

(3) Substantially increase contraband scans and power of the troopers near star ports (NOTE: Slicing, Spices, and items acquired from smugglers have little or no contraband properties).

DON'T FREAK OUT YET...I'M NOT DONE.

Create a brand new class of "highly illegal" items, that people will get scanned and killed for possessing if they try to planet hop with them.Smugglers are near required to move these items. These are NOT items that will bug and annoy players every single time they play (like guns and armor), but rarer items that make sense. Examples include:

Rebel Installation Deedslike turrets, bases, etc.

Guild Hall deeds (Empire doesn't like competing factions or groups)

Experimental Components and Items made with experimental components - Create a new class of items that smugglers can "acquire" through NPC smuggler missions. Example: Droid Storage Module that holds 30 items. Example: Movable battle field turret. These items would be highly illegal, and the items made with them would be highly illegal. (See the beauty of this...it doesn't kill smugglers slicing/spice market, but creates a new class of items that are more powerful and more illegal).

The basic jist of this is that (1) the current nature of the Smuggler as a player in the market economy would be increased (through selling slices and items "acquired" through NPC smuggling missions; (2) there are SOME (NOTE: not every single night) instances where smugglers are REQUIRED to move certain items between planets. You get you cake, you eat it too, and other players aren't annoyed.

So what do you have to say to that?

Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 06-16-2004 08:59 PM