Smuggler Archive

Thread: Concussion shot vs Stopping Shot?

Thomen
Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:35 pm
#157






lspiderl wrote:

u know i hear all this yeah but a m sumb m comando


or yeah but an m smug m cm


or what ever bs


but thats just it were not talking about m smug/whatever


were talking about SMUGLER PERIOD so pls dont bring in all the combo prof because not every smug has that combo heck some even have belive it or not NON COMBAT profesions


so we realy need to focus on where this will leave the normal smugler


and yes if concussion shot as a root TOO powerful then hey great fix it but dont leave us defenceless


right now root is our defence w/o it n e melee can kill us in a few hits so if u take root then at least give us like a ton of dodge or much higher defs after all smuglers could always take a beating and keep on truckin its in there nature there just to cocky to give up and cry because they got hit







Mhm... you know... Smugglers have a move that *gasp* acutaly snares(Restraining Shot)*gasp* the target.. learn to use moves.. kite your mob. Its not quite as good as crippling shot, but still usefull.

Message Edited by Thomen on 06-25-2005 09:37 PM



Lawho Iwon
Master Smuggler
Smugglers Alliance Ace

Coalition of the Lost Smugglers
Inamalcus
Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:37 pm
#158






Blixtev wrote:


Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.





As long as it can still be used for the origional purpose in PVE, Fine.


Now on the downside, if joe dork in the group accidentaly mistargets I have no way to re-mez the target at all.


Of course this is assuming that the timer is equal to or less than the duration of the mez. If a target cant' be remezzed when the mez would normally wear off that makes crowd control ... troublesome.


Of coruse, if this timer was in PVP only, that'd be super and I'll shut up.



-I think ribbons are pretty.
Juspar
Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:54 pm
#159

Blixtev -


Is itthe effect that can't be chained, or the specific shot. IE, can I concuss, then follow with a panic. Or vice versa, though not repeatedly.



Juspar - DELTA : Rebel Combat Medic/ Smuggler, Bria

After CU I stuck it out because my guild friends were still here, the good was good enough and the bad could be worked around.
With NGE:
  • My guildies hated it so much they quit
  • They nerfed my uniquness
  • They nerfed my ability to role play
  • They nerfed my strategic combat
  • They disregarded Star Wars canon
  • As a level 80 smuggler, I have out dueled every level and every profession. Only beated since NGE by a level 90 Bounty Hunter.
Serae
Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:39 pm
#160



No you misunderstand, any damage breaks the entire effect. You can lock people down, in a multiple creature fight for example, shut down 3 and kill the 4th, however and damage to the other 3 will cause them to break the entire effect.


Concussion shot can miss and people can break your concussion shots by shooting the wrong thing, that is what Panic Shot s for, a good backup in case someone isnt paying attention or you miss.


The ability to shut an opponent down so they cant heal, cant attack, while you back out and rest up, heal etc is very powerful. I am concerned about the duration of this ability and will watch to see if it is used for good, or for awesome.




Blixtev wrote:






Zorron wrote:


Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?






Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.





So Panic shot won't work if you've already used concusion shot? Seems contradictory to me


Rhu
Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:59 pm
#161






Serae wrote:



No you misunderstand, any damage breaks the entire effect. You can lock people down, in a multiple creature fight for example, shut down 3 and kill the 4th, however and damage to the other 3 will cause them to break the entire effect.


Concussion shot can miss and people can break your concussion shots by shooting the wrong thing, that is what Panic Shot s for, a good backup in case someone isnt paying attention or you miss.


The ability to shut an opponent down so they cant heal, cant attack, while you back out and rest up, heal etc is very powerful. I am concerned about the duration of this ability and will watch to see if it is used for good, or for awesome.




Blixtev wrote:






Zorron wrote:


Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?






Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.





So Panic shot won't work if you've already used concusion shot? Seems contradictory to me







Either: Yes, it is. As the understanding of the implications to having working daze attacks in game evolved, so too has Blix's line on what it will do.


Or: No, it isn't. Concussion shot isn't the most reliable shot out there on high level (90+) mobs, even with overwhelming shot it is prone to miss from time to time. This isn't the case with panic shot. It very rarely misses/is resisted/fails. If you haven't noticed, when you miss a target with, say, a knockdown attack, you don't have to wait the 20-30 seconds to attempt to knock them down again.


Or both. Depends on your point of view, I suppose.
Pseudopd
Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:39 pm
#162

So, if i'm not mistaken, Concussion Shot is like a "pause" button on the target, right?


If any damage is applied to the target, "play" button, and combat is resumed...


And the "pause" button is on a timer to "un-pause", and cannot be "paused" again for a few to prevent a "perma-pause"...


I think i got that then


Baz Pseudopod

Juspar
Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:45 pm
#163






Pseudopd wrote:

So, if i'm not mistaken, Concussion Shot is like a "pause" button on the target, right?


If any damage is applied to the target, "play" button, and combat is resumed...


And the "pause" button is on a timer to "un-pause", and cannot be "paused" again for a few to prevent a "perma-pause"...


I think i got that then


Baz Pseudopod





LOL. Awesome.


To continue the analogy - Panic is the Mute button . . .





I think what the dev was saying didn't make it to publish 19 was the denial of the ability to chain. So between 19 and 20 (or maybe a hot fix) we will be able to run them back to back. Don't get used to it though.



Juspar - DELTA : Rebel Combat Medic/ Smuggler, Bria

After CU I stuck it out because my guild friends were still here, the good was good enough and the bad could be worked around.
With NGE:
  • My guildies hated it so much they quit
  • They nerfed my uniquness
  • They nerfed my ability to role play
  • They nerfed my strategic combat
  • They disregarded Star Wars canon
  • As a level 80 smuggler, I have out dueled every level and every profession. Only beated since NGE by a level 90 Bounty Hunter.
Mantelar
Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:09 pm
#164

[quote] The thing which concerns me most about this is the fact i hunt alone, its a character choice likewise before the CU i was fighting the war and was a support character, i dont want to have to change playstyle again because this is the direction my character has taken.

So in all honesty how does this effect the solo smuggler?


Are their going to be any other changes to our defences since we will be getting hit alot?


What about our only move which does damage of any notewhich is reckless shot which favours a root more than a daze since it knocks our defences down considerably?


How do you view smuggler?


I personaly dont see how a smuggler stands a chance of killing anything 10 - 20 levels below our cl nevermind things which con white to us, im all for the change but im highly disappointed that we have no moves designed to actually win a fight since you get no xp for a draw and no loot from a draw.


Like it or not some people, namely me, see smuggler as a solo profession and despite all the crap which is thrown at smuggler this point of view isnt going to change because this is the lifestyle which he subscribes to.


Really i would like to here what is planned and how we are viewed because the forced group *cough*call a jedi to help*cough* isnt the way i play my character, i dont mind grouping on the odd occassion for guild events and the like though i dont want to have to log on at my normal time which tends to be quiet and log straight off because their is nothing i can achieve without having someone hold my hand through a fight. [/quote]



This actually concerns me too and I would like to get an official word on it. When I log in I just want to go and do some missions on my own,I don't like just getting into or waiting for groups. If I wanted to do that I would play EverQuest. I don't want to have to run around in circles (kiting) either just because one of our specials is once again getting "fixed". What made Smuggler fun to play was the fact that we had the ability to lock down a target and shoot it without it getting close to us and wailing on us. If you wanna make a daze+root effect why not just make it separate from Conc shot? Or add in a differentability which had the old effect. I guess my point is...not everyone who logs in can spend the time to commit to a group, some people just want to log in and play by themselves, taking this root away and making it so one shot breaks it basically makes this profession useless to the casual gamer. I should not have to pick up pistoleer for a lesser version of this ability, especially since all my skill points are already spent.

VitoGenovese
Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:16 pm
#165

I don't mind them fixing Concussion shot to do what the flavortext claims if and only if they fix our other specials at the same time! As a Master Smuggler/Master Commando concussion shot is the only thing that makes me viable in PVE. I cant do enough damage to kill something before it kills me, if I don't root it away from me. The snare we have is incredibly ineffective. Even when snared any mob can run faster than I can. I would gladly kite things if it was effective but it is not. Overwhelming shot is unique in that it appears to actually do what it says. Panic shot does nothing that I or any teammates have ever been able to discern. Lowblow has the same problem, even when stacked with panic shot.

Yah I support fixing us but don't make it like a trip to the Veterinarian for a fix.



______________________
Adapt! Or be Darwined.
I don't believe in the Force anymore, but I do believe in Karma.
sas-quatch
Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:16 pm
#166



Ternque01 wrote:


fishbrains wrote:

/shrug, I'm just pissed cause from what I see on PvP on my server..concussion is the #1 thing and possibly ony thing jedi are fearing in PvP. With this change they will fear nothing.


NO! When all ten of his buddies are mezzed, leaving an entire army to beat his ass, the new Concussion Shot will be more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Plus, if you need a Jedi taken out of the action, then it is VEEEEEERY easy to do.
Concussion shot getting changed is WAAAAAY more better.
The only difference is that you will start to see snares become muuuch more used than they used to be.
I am telling you that I will be able to neutralize 75% of an army in one shot with smuggler/commando, leaving the remaining 25% to die to my friends.
One word.
Powerful.







YYYYYEEEEAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!


abso-freakin-lutly

could not agree more Ternque01

/gives beer and pie



Sas-quatch
~R-E-F Armorsmith~
Ardessa Baid
~R-E-F Master Structures~
Schooter' Wavingstrider
~R-E-F Medic~
~SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL CRAFTERS AND BUY PLAYERMADE~
R-E-F Web Site
Thomen
Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:19 pm
#167






sas-quatch wrote:





Ternque01 wrote:





fishbrains wrote:

/shrug, I'm just pissed cause from what I see on PvP on my server..concussion is the #1 thing and possibly ony thing jedi are fearing in PvP. With this change they will fear nothing.





NO! When all ten of his buddies are mezzed, leaving an entire army to beat his ass, the new Concussion Shot will be more powerful than you can possibly imagine.


Plus, if you need a Jedi taken out of the action, then it is VEEEEEERY easy to do.


Concussion shot getting changed is WAAAAAY more better.


The only difference is that you will start to see snares become muuuch more used than they used to be.


I am telling you that I will be able to neutralize 75% of an army in one shot with smuggler/commando, leaving the remaining 25% to die to my friends.


One word.


Powerful.











YYYYYEEEEAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!


abso-freakin-lutly

could not agree more Ternque01

/gives beer and pie




Uhm.. kinda.. you can beat his ass for 40 seconds, and hope that not someone throws in an AoE. When the 40 seconds are over, regardless if you kill the single one.. or 2 of them.. you have to deal with ALL remaining.. because you cantDaze them againfor a certain amount of time.

Edit: The old tactics for Group or Mass PvP will be in SWG as soon as our shots got fixed.. SOP: Kill1. Caster/Mezzer, 2. Healer/Rezzer, 2. whatever is left..

Message Edited by Thomen on 06-26-2005 12:24 AM



Lawho Iwon
Master Smuggler
Smugglers Alliance Ace

Coalition of the Lost Smugglers
sas-quatch
Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:38 pm
#168



Lord_Eoin wrote:


Ternque01 wrote:

Concussion Shot is the ultimate solo'ers tool as a mez that breaks on damage. People who solo must, in a lot of cases, fight enemies one-on-one. If a smuggler is EVER swarmed, they have the ultimate tool to deal with multiple attackers by using Concussion Shot on the ones surrounding your target.

For those who used Concussion Shot to root a creature then run back out of melee range, that is a lame way to play the game. Conc. Shot was never intended to be used as a sure fire way to beat melee opponents.

It needed to be changed because no special should be used as an "I win" button. A Smuggler can be just as deadly with it turned to a mez that breaks on damage, but only this time the smuggler might get a little beat up, scratched, and have to give a LITTLE more effort into keeping multiple enemies at bay.

Smugglers need a good challenge and aren't afraid of getting a scratch or two on them. Using Concussion Shot as a way to completely avoid danger like a wimp IS NOT the smuggler way.

Message Edited by Ternque01 on 06-24-200501:50 PM


exactly, in one on one fights, this is going to be ultimatly useless now. Sure, youcan completly stop their actions(no heals, moving, attacking etc) but there still is a problem. If we plan to use this we must turn off our Auto-Attack. Tried with CM paralyze before and it goes something like this-


Radnor Waypeg attacks a dewback with improved paralyze.

(pause 1 second)
Radnor Waypeg attacks a dewback with Ranged Shot for 56 damage.(nullifying the mez).
What a useful ability!!!!!!11111!!!1!11! I just mezed the target for 1 second during my cooldown!!1!1!!!1!1!! YAY!!!!11!1!! I also got 56 damage off on him while he was stunned, this rules!1!11!!!!1!!
And i find that it will be much worst for smugglers. On adverage, I can get a few different shots off in succession(getting low blow and panic shot off in two different shots right in succession before a innate cooldown happens). So, this would cause something like this-
Halleroder- attacks a dewback with improved concussion shot
Halleroder- attacks a dewback with ranged shot for 98 damage.
WOOOT!!1!1!!!1! My uber l33tness conc shot is the b35t35t!!!1!1!11 I froze my opponent for a third of a second!!!111!!1!1 Thats @5\/\/50/\/\3!!!11!!11!1111!!!
And for the commando/smuggler template vs multiple targets you attack the group with the mez and it gets them all, attack again in the attack techniclly attacks them all without damaging the group : | great






you obviouslt dont know how to use this kind of move.

i DONT use CS in pvp...at all...BECAUSE its not working as intended.

it IS u sefull in 1vs.1 AS A GETAWAY>

dude fire cuncussion when you got aeasy out near by...(be sure to DESELECT YOUR TARGET)

/burstrun

they can move for 40 seconds CUS YOU LEFT THEM THAT WAY!!

bye
cya
nomore fight.



Sas-quatch
~R-E-F Armorsmith~
Ardessa Baid
~R-E-F Master Structures~
Schooter' Wavingstrider
~R-E-F Medic~
~SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL CRAFTERS AND BUY PLAYERMADE~
R-E-F Web Site
sas-quatch
Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:03 pm
#169



lspiderl wrote:

u know i hear all this yeah but a m sumb m comando

or yeah but an m smug m cm

or what ever bs

but thats just it were not talking about m smug/whatever

were talking about SMUGLER PERIOD so pls dont bring in all the combo prof because not every smug has that combo heck some even have belive it or not NON COMBAT profesions

so we realy need to focus on where this will leave the normal smugler

and yes if concussion shot as a root TOO powerful then hey great fix it but dont leave us defenceless

right now root is our defence w/o it n e melee can kill us in a few hits so if u take root then at least give us like a ton of dodge or much higher defs after all smuglers could always take a beating and keep on truckin its in there nature there just to cocky to give up and cry because they got hit







dude take some pixie and chill the F*** out.

im an msmugg.

with this change i can gaurantee ou that i will die MORE often in pvp because the opposing faction WONT WANT ME on the field.

not b ecuase i suck ...but because im dangerous.

i can kd y ou...mezz you...
leave you be.

bye
cya
your stuck till someone else hits you first



Sas-quatch
~R-E-F Armorsmith~
Ardessa Baid
~R-E-F Master Structures~
Schooter' Wavingstrider
~R-E-F Medic~
~SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL CRAFTERS AND BUY PLAYERMADE~
R-E-F Web Site
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