Smuggler Archive
Thread: Tuesday Tip
GanymedePharuu
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:14 pm
#144
riotcontrol wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
Why is it that you folks only think that "competition" for SWG is another Star Wars MMORPG?
People, there's a whole MMORPG industry out there.
SWG doesn't just have to worry about competition from other Star Wars games. It's an MMORPG. It needs to worry about competition with other MMORPGs.
Yeah, anyways, later on. Take care, everyone.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-10-2005 04:51 PM
Because if it was done right, it would have what no other MMORPG can or ever will be able to compete with - the most faithful playerbase of all: true Star Wars fans. People who truly want to live in the Star Wars universe. Those people aren't your typical MMORPG kids who leave for the next big thing, those are the people who would play this game until the servers closed down simply for the chance of an "alternate life". It wouldn't need to worry about competition with other MMORPGs, it wouldn't even have the same target audience, it would have one that is much bigger and immeasurably more loyal instead.
well said!
WesBelden
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:17 pm
#145
magnum1138 wrote:
This is the Important Issue at hand. I couldn't care less about the emote (i understand the people that do though).
For me and I thought the community, the issue of most importance and one that is always at hand is that there is no Smuggling in the game; this is what I always have at the forefront of my mind and the thing I'd preferably concentrate on and address as much as possible.
But it shows once again - how out of touch our CR People are - and THAT is the problem.
I'm also worried about the disparity between the community and the developers (that's all of them, not just Tiggs and TH) and it's something I've attempted to call attention to, especially in relation to the way players view Smuggling not being in the game compared to how they view it (which brings me back to my primary issue).
I for one don't care much for TH or Tiggs coming here and do damage control (which i am pretty sure they find silly "have to look after the stupid kids") or flame posters or giving out more non-information.
Well, that's part of their job, especially when people are posting that they think something done by either of them was done with intention to cause offence and/or as an in-joke at the office at the players' expense.
They can come back when they have something to say - then you can thank them.
Hopefully they will have cause to and will do so. Until then, we can't very well ask for more developer communication and then turn away from it when some appears (albeit under the circumstances/current topic).
(but i already told you, that your way of repling to the crap they throw at us, is very irritating)
Feeling that of course is your prerogative, but being courteous is mine. I didn't think the TT was all that tactfull given our feelings and history, but that doesn't mean I start treating developers as 'the enemy'. If you have a difficulty with me over this feel free to sling me a PM (as always, goes for everyone).
Lotussutol
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:21 pm
#146
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiggs wrote:
We have many un-announced plans that one day soon will be public knowledge. Until we receive the go-ahead nothing will be said, sorry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
can you guess what word I like in Tiggs reply?
ZallusNuranxis
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:22 pm
#147
WesBelden wrote:Now they nerfed our secret handshake. Is anything sacred to these DEVs?
Tip on how to give the Secret Smuggler Handshake, our secret's out!
GanymedePharuu
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:22 pm
#148
WesBelden wrote:
Just wanted to say thanks to Tiggs for stopping by and confirming that this wasn't intended as a joke.. it didn't do much for anyone's street cred (especially now I could receive the hand shake from an imposter!
oh i'm over it Wes.
but concentrate on the important issues at hand?
what does that even mean?
we've been over Smuggling missions about seven thousand times, and we're right back where we started two years ago.
there's not much left to say about the crappy loot-slicing system.
you made that really awesome list of our top issues, but really, what could we do to possibly furtherconcentrate on these issues?
should we mull them over in our heads?
should we rephrase them?
should we translate them into Chinese and back into English to see how silly they become?
i'm not angry at you Wes, but i just feel defeated.
there's nothing we can do. and i'm sure you've done all you can for us.
so there's no use in even posting on these forums until they want to leak some new info on anything...
Taln2
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:23 pm
#149
I don't think an approximate timetable with vague project descriptions is much to ask for. I wouldn't even mind if the devs kept postponing something so long as they posted that it was going to be postponed. I don't even care why it was postponed (although it would be a rather cool thing to know), just notice that it is being postponed works for me.
I'd like to see something along the lines of:
Publish 24 - Force Ranking System / Smuggler Revamp A
Publish 25 - Smuggler Revamp B / Image Designer Revamp
Publish 26 - Ranger Revamp / Entertainer Revamp
etc etc.. bad examples,since they're all revamps, but I'm just being general, hehe.
Anyway, the point is with that kind of reporting, there's nothing very controversial said, and we as players feel informed instead of completely in the dark. In fact, there's just enough to get the playerbase excited and looking forward to future publishes.
That's an important point, because I think the main point of these flames you PR guys have been receiving isreally just angry outlash from an increasingly wary and bored playerbase that really needs something to look forward to in the live game. So many are disillusioned and growing spiteful of SOE for not providing so much as a single line of communication as to what the future has in store.. so give it to them!
ZallusNuranxis
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:31 pm
#150
TrekHawk wrote:I've got some lake shore property on TatooineI'd like to sell you
At first I was a little upset with the tuesday tip just like you all are...
But then I starting thinking, maybe this is TH's way of letting us know that something IS coming for us. You never know but at least it gives me a little hope plus they are thinking of us...
ZallusNuranxis
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:39 pm
#151
Tiggs wrote:Never thought the Smugglers are overly sensistive right now given the circumstances of our never-ending revamp wait? Maslicious or not, it still caused some to be aggravated and insulted and this is from the 2 public relations people for a big company.....
Hello Folks,
I just wanted to comment on the Tuesday Tip that was posted yesterday. In no way was the tip meant as a slap in the face or to take shots at our Smuggler community. Tuesday tips are scheduled ahead of time and posted each week. If anyone was offended by the tip I apologize however our intentions were not malicious.
WesBelden
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:39 pm
#152
GanymedePharuu wrote:
WesBelden wrote:
Just wanted to say thanks to Tiggs for stopping by and confirming that this wasn't intended as a joke
oh i'm over it Wes.but concentrate on the important issues at hand?what does that even mean?we've been over Smuggling missions about seven thousand times, and we're right back where we started two years ago.there's not much left to say about the crappy loot-slicing system.you made that really awesome list of our top issues, but really, what could we do to possibly further concentrate on these issues?should we mull them over in our heads?should we rephrase them?should we translate them into Chinese and back into English to see how silly they become?i'm not angry at you Wes, but i just feel defeated.there's nothing we can do. and i'm sure you've done all you can for us.so there's no use in even posting on these forums until they want to leak some new info on anything...
It might shock you (pfft
) to know that I also feel like that sometimes.. but I think to myself, screw it, I'm gonna keep at it, because I love playing parts of this game and I want to do what I can and hopefully help make it better. You are right though, when you reach the stage of having gone over the same issue over and over, it begs the question of 'what the heck can I do now'.
The issues I had in mind by the way were us not Smuggling, loot drops not being Smugglery enough (catch 22, we'd like to see them in Smuggling missions! *goes crosseyed*), slicing caps, a bunch of bugs that we have and of course, beer and pie...
Oh, and I'm 22 today, so that's vaguely important to me right now
.
Moriendor
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:50 pm
#153
No, we are not on auto-pilot.We know exactly what concerns and issues players are currently experiencing as well as wish lists. Please do not twist my words around or troll any further.
Right. That's probably why the group XP changes (which were luckily pulled) were recently introduced on TC (was that on the imaginary wishlist or an imaginary concern/issue that prompted the temporary implementation of the -sorry but no other way to say it- retarded idea?).
Was the implementation of loot-based slicing components the way the systemis currently on live an issue/concern or a frequently mentioned wishlist item? If you say 'yes' then there must be some other secret SWG forums that I'm not aware of. Could you post the link, please? 
Could go on and on but for what purpose? You guys *are* on auto-pilot and prioritizing/implementing stuff as you see fit. Please stop pretending like the *word* of us customers has any weight on any decisions. You only react to mass cancellations. We know that. You know that. Let's quit the pretending game.
Wolveryne40
Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:57 pm
#154
Warryyr wrote:
Wolveryne40 wrote:
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
How can you be lied to, AND kept in the dark?
Because only the truth can illuminate what's really going on - and they seem incredibly reluctant to share that.
They're already giving customers away by alienating them. Take a look for yourself at all the people who have clearly announced their reasons for departure. Are you honestly trying to defend that their current attitude of "reveal nothing" is building customer loyalty?
The last thing SWG needs to do is let someone else get a chance to best them with their future plans. That's just giving customers away.There are myriad reasons for people leaving SWG. Not just for being lied to, or for being kept in the dark. Sometimes they don't even play another game. It's hard to make broad statements like SWG's current communication method is causing so many people to leave, without actually seeing the exit surveys.
I'll just let you speak for me, you are doing a hell of a job lol.
Tash is right.
one more thing, exactly who again? has a star wars MMO that sony has to worry about being BESTED at? is some orc getting a lightsaber soon? no one knows about light sabers but us? What exactly would be that reason to HIDE the secret from another company who doesnt have a license to produce a star wars mmo?
Your reasoning doesn't make any sense.
Why is it that you folks only think that "competition" for SWG is another Star Wars MMORPG?
People, there's a whole MMORPG industry out there.
SWG doesn't just have to worry about competition from other Star Wars games. It's an MMORPG. It needs to worry about competition with other MMORPGs.
Yeah, anyways, later on. Take care, everyone.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-10-2005 04:51 PM
Because this is Not about eq2 versus wow. that i can see, as it is more apples and apples. But this is Star Wars. People, alot of people, came in originally to play Star Wars.
Not eq I joined not to hack at a dragon or cast a spell but to shoot a blaster and kinda be like ol han or boba hell on occasion swing a light saber. What i was not expecting was this mess that can never seem to be fixed. This game is 2 plus years old now. It should be a simple matter of tweaking. Improving the lay of the land to look better, increased fluidity of movement. Adding content in changing others out. Not. Damn, still can't shoot correctly. Bike keeps disappearing still, still rubber banding. still losing stuff, crafting still borked, cant harvest this, cant move that. How is repairing the game gonna give out trade secrets? I can see at first things screwing up, servers crashing, the oddball bit coming out of the code. but now? Please. Its just excuses these days. There is no excuse to be in the state of disrepair we are currently in. There is no reason that smugglers should still be screaming the samething at this point. Only thing that seems to be going on is how can we make the game more tedious. What can we break today. "yeah I know, well, pretty sure they dont aim that way." But, there is no reason to flip the code to make the personal light to come on each and everytime you come into the game. When you have old and new quests and missions still broken.
This, well they have to keep it secret due to other games, is a lousy reason. This is Star Wars. This game should be leading the way. not, huffin an puffin to keep up. This Particular MMO should have the biggest market share in history, what with the Movies and books and the sheer number of fans on earth. It shouldn't be a contest and wouldnt be if they QUIT SCREWING THE GAME INTO THE DIRT with crap excuses and little secrets, lack of communication, poorly planned and executed expansions, giving rewards to those that shouldn't get them, having stupid little dragons in their sig thats just an ongoing slap to the players of this particular mmo telling us how she'd rather be playing something like eq or wow rather than be here.
All that big and small problems is what pisses every profession off in this game. The only reason this game hasn't tanked yet, THEE only reason is due to the name on the box. No other game would of survived the CURB like this one did. The reason of the timing was due to the release of the movie that is more than likely what held it together. and they do know that. Don't kid yourselves.
Part of the reason for the CURB was to make things EASIER to repair? I haven't seen that. Have you? Smugglers and Rangers and Squad Leaders haven't notice how much easier it became for them to get what they been asking for. "Which is primarily what the professions are supposed to be about." Where is this much lauded improvement to repairing the game at? It's still a month on publishes.
Still just an occasional fix. Still blows up in their faces at a constant rate. SWG gets written up all the time on its issues. Only on occasion do they get any minor praise and that is even half attempted at best.
How did all the lack of communication help slow down wow's popularity? How did maintaining bugs and not repairing this game right off the bat slow the herd of players leaving the game? How did poorly thought out nerfs stem that tide? I dont get how those 'secrets' helped.
What blix and freeman did was the way to go. They weren't hung out to dry when they explained the problems they had. No one seemed to have a problem with it other than your standard idiot that should simply be duct taped and tossed into the closet.
My fear for those two is that they may get fired for it now. We all know we can't have that or dammit the game might improve and actually be fun to play.
That corporate black out excuse doesn't fly because we seen it didn't work, had it worked, then maybe the likes of wow wouldn't have a million and a half subscribers....had it worked.
But 2.8% share of the market SAYS their line of reasoning IS NOT working. Unless the goal is to be the poorest MMO on earth. Then yeah, it's working wonderfully.
2.8% Is AFTER the CU.
2.8% says, they are simply riding coat tails.
2.8% says, the management types need to be canned.
2.8% market share blows in anybody's book.
SWG should NOT be at 2.8% with the legion of fans the Star Wars franchise has behind it.
2.8% says, something is wrong with this game.
2.8% market share says the game isn't STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR WAAAAAAAARSY.
2.8% says, time to get it into gear and fix the problems.
2.8% says, jedi aren't the be all end all of this game. "if it were? Then it wouldn't be at 2.8% see?"
Excuses only managed to earn 2.8%.
Lack of communication only earned this game 2.8%.
Ignoring professions for 2 years earned them 2.8%.
Banning people for speaking their minds about their profession earned them 2.8%.
ignoring 70% of the polls saying they hated the cu earned them 2.8%.
Saying they are trying to keep the competition from knowing whats coming next to improve market share has not worked.Because they are only earning 2.8%.
Welcome to SWG Ver. 2.8
Thats why.
Man I feel better. Thanks.
MMOGCHART
Message Edited by Wolveryne40 on 08-10-2005 06:25 PM
Rhu
Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:00 pm
#155
Preface: This isn't really much of a reply to the below quoted question at all, but it served as an excellent starting point.
Warryyr wrote:
How can you be lied to, AND kept in the dark?
That's a silly question for those who have been watching these forums in the recent... uhm... years. But I'll set up a hypothetical situation to illustrate:
Let's say your friend Bob is just about to die. Why this is or how you know that this is the case isn't important, but the fact that he is about to expire is very clear to you, and he is oblivious to this fact. He feels lousy, but all he's begging for is a glass of water. So you tell him, "I just called Joe. He's on his way with a truck of supplies. You'll be fine." And then Bob expires. You knew he was about to die, anyway, but why not give him a comforting truth in his last moments? Would it have been better to just say, "Look, Bob, you're just about dead, and there's nothing I can do"?
But let's leave that question a moment and discuss something else. Star Wars Galaxies. Some people are saying that communication isn't the biggest problem here, and I agree. It isn't the biggest problem, but it certainly *is* a problem. We've all seen rumors in the forums get propagated to our friends in game and come back just a little twisted and messed up. We've heard rumors from other sources that have given us hope, and then to have it dashed. We can see the commercial for SWG on the game's frontpage now, "Be a Bounty Hunter, a Commando, or even a Jedi!"
When as we know in fact, you can only be a Bounty Hunter. Children with strange powers and glowing swords with no accountability are just that--They aren't Jedi. Being a commando of any faction gaurantees that you end up on a bottom of a large pile of bodies, which is generally an unrewarding game experience.
That, of course, is an intended segue into one of the biggest problems of the game, *design*. The current phase of the games development is a jarring mishmash of design philosophies and decisions that don't really make much sene. Part of it is the general development philosophy of the MMO, that, to paraphrase Warren Spector (lead developer on some all-time great games), tries to create an environment where everyone is the hero which will lead to an unsatisfying experience.
The early design philosophy of SWG was something of a challenge to that idea. There was a vast network of interdependant systems and there were emergent "Heroes" in all professions--these people were good at social networking and working with people of disparate goals to get what they wanted out of the game.
Recent turns have essentially taken this away. Simply put--Entertainers aren't needed anymore. People who came to the game to be entertainers have no found themselves outside of the interdependant web. No one *needs* anything from them anymore, so they are rather lost. Partial enforcement of the games social aspects are what builds communities, what causes cliques to interact. Removing these things from the loop means removing both what was really set this game apart, and removes many roles that people wanted to feel needed in. Since nobody needs doctors anymore, as a quick death on Kashyyyk will cure you of your wounds at no cost. Nobody needs weaponsmiths because they can get excellent weapons for free for doing quests that you can't fail, but you can try, try again. And again.
And the quest system! The *only* quest in the game that has *any* meaning is the Hero of Tatooine series. Otherwise, it is just navigating a dialog tree until you hit on the right response, and, if you can't complete it, don't worry! Just kill yourself a hundred thousand rats, pigs, and assorted lizards until you are strong enough to try again! The inability to fail doesn't define a character, it creates a hundred thousand strong community of sameness. "Which mold were you cut from," you can ask, "Rebel, Imperial, or Neutral?"
So, where does that leave us? You can be a combatant on the four-month path to a singular goal, or you can be left behind. Social activity in game can now be boiled down to a series of grunts and gestures. Working in groups is necessary only in battle, and no one should be doing anything but fighting, anyway. And there's that glass of water you wanted, Bob. Joe's bringing it. I swear!
That's how I feel being a smuggler, hanging onto this game by a thread. I feel foolish for having hope, as wiser minds encourage the abandoment of such.
And then Teusday, we get the message, "I don't have your water, Bob, but I found your mud! Will this do?"
Please, give us a little water, or just put us down.
TashunkaSapa
Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:01 pm
#156
Warryyr wrote:
Now, now - this isn't the X Files. Let's all take a step back. Trust me, the Devs didn't shoot J.R....and they're not planning world domination or anything.
Don't you dare try and spin this to make me seem paranoid for wanting some honest, forthright communication here.
I'm doing nothing but explaining one possible motivation for them to not divulge everything they planned for now, the near future, and the future - because it will change, it does change, and the competition (other MMORPG's, there are plenty out there) doesn't need any help in besting SWG at this point.
You're right - they don't need help because they've already done so. SOE can't even get SWG right - what the hell could they give away to the competition? Borrowing ideas from a game that's still broken after two years is like copying your test answers from the kid who was held back a grade.
I think maybe SOE ought to worry about making the game something customers wish to continue paying for, or else they won't need to give any secrets away. The game is hemmoraging customers and has been for the last year or so. People want some assurance that these things are ever going to actually be addressed and they want some commitment on the matter. Stick your head in the sand all you want but we've seen them do this before and here we are, two years after the smuggler revamp was proposed... still nothing. Like it or not, accept this: There's no excuse for that.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 