Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Daker-Naritus
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:43 pm
#144
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
JTGAlpha wrote:
Yes, but most smugglers are MORE than willing to take a pocket book hit for the chance at REAL smuggling. So ya know what, if this encourages fewer people to use slices then big deal? No problem. My game will be MUCH more fun anyway. Because I'll be being a SMUGGLER.
And what, spice sells might get worse? PSh. CAN THEY? I mean no spices are getting sold. So this can't hurt. PS-GM hasn't TALKED about spices yet, so let's cool our jets on this one. I'm not a frog, you're not a bunny, let's not jump ahead.
So I'm sorry, while I can see how some players might be slightly inconvenienced, I fail to see how this will spell disaster for my profession, or for the fun factor of the game as we know it. People may have to learn how and when to carry their contraband. They may have to save that sliced pistol for when they REALLY need it. ORRR they may just have to roll their dice and take their chances with the guards. Or they might actually have to ask us to...GASP smuggle something for them.
This is one of my points. YOUR gameplay as a smuggler (mine too, maybe) might get better. But everyone else's will get worse.
Let's try an empathy exercise. Pretend you're not a smuggler. Pretend you're a Fencer. Here's the scenario I see happening galaxy-wide:
1) Get your weapon sliced. Actually, multiple weapons because you want that 30% + slice. Cost: 6 weapons @ 3k + 6 slices @ 3k = 36k.
2) Come up to a starport. Notice law enforcement. Decide whether or not you really want to fight your way in. Getting a TEF and all in the process. Decide against.
3) Look for a Smuggler to help you get to your destination unmolested.
4) Keep looking.
5) Still looking.
6) Found one! What? He wants 10k to get to Naboo? Are they gonna want over 10x travel expenses EVERY TIME? Bah.
7) Swear off slicing.
8) Destroy weapon.
9) Use travel system unmolested.
The moral of the story: You might get to smuggle, but you'll be smuggling for yourself.
Edit: moved an "e" from the wrong place to the right one.
Message Edited by HalasterTheBlack on 06-16-2004 08:39 PM
This is my point...
For smuggling to work, there has to be a market for the smuggled items. There has to someone to buy those items the Smuggler bootlegs from Jabba.
If you make smuggled items so annoying to own that no one will put up with it, there is no market and nothing for smugglers to do (outside of NPC missions).
Ternque01
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:44 pm
#145
Use tactics for the situation, enter a starport buffed, armored, and grouped. You act like a mercenary carrying illegaly modified weapons and armor around. The time has come to actually enforce the law. Perhaps the time has also come for you to target the law.
To be honest they have said that they will slightly increase scan rates. They hardly scan at all now. I think you are needlessly worrying here. Go to Kaadara Naboo one day. There is a Stormtrooper who hangs out in front of the starport and scans nearly everone he comes across. I'm not kidding. You should go there and find out. I know where he likes to hang out, and I avoid coming into range with him.
Some further tactics include rushing past the scan team when alot of other people go past them.
There are solutions to your problem, but keeping the power of the law nuetered makes absolutely no sense in the Star Wars universe considering that 95% of the adventures in the Star Wars movies come from evading the law....
For those who cry about needing their composite sliced... Composite will be nerfed in the near future, you might be wanting to look for other kinds of armor anyway. Last I checked the most important parts to wear are the helm, chest, pants and boots, and they seldom all need slicing to wear. Furthermore composite can be made in low encumbrance varieties. Only the heavily layered stuff NEEDS to be sliced to wear the essential pieces. For those who cry about sliced weapons.. buy a powerup.. they do the same thing and are legal.
Lastly, Halaster, you claim that we should take a closer look at the nerfs... let's do that now. Many players will deeply consider not using sliced gear. When our revamp hits, our abilities to slice gear for certain stats will be increased (GM said he'd like a feature that allowed us to have an improved chance at slicing a particular stat on a weapon). For those players that trutly desire sliced gear, they will have to live a life style of a character that uses illegal goods. The benefits they derive from our slicing will be increased in general as will the risks they have to endure using them. It's all supply and demand. I see absolutely no end to demand considering that all GCW participants will find great use in it's benefits. Smuggler can then charge more to slice what are "supposed to be" in the Star Wars universe rare items.
You are right about one thing, some people will have to choose not to used sliced gear. That's how it should be. I don't really mind because a real "law" will be implemented. You can always use a powerup and opt for ultra-low encumbrance composite. No sweat on me. I will be charging 15k a slice in the future when i can guarantee a quality modification.
Selfish? Yes, but I'm selfish for the Star Wars I've read about and watched.
This is the birth of a whole new criminal aspect that has long waited to fill the void of not having one in ourStar Wars galaxy.
JTGAlpha
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:45 pm
#146
No, it WON'T get worse. That's my point. When did spice and sliced weapons become the lynch pin of FUN for star wars galaxies?
It's not. It's an extra edge for people willing to put up with the risks. The dev's said LOOOONG ago that's what it was supposed to be but they never got around to making our contraband system. So people got used to freebie buffs for their guns and bodies, and we got BORED.
So yeah. Screw'em. If it inconveniences the playerbase a little guess what? They'll adjust. As long as there's PvP people will want sliced goods. If spices get brought back in line with food and doc buffs? Theyll want those too. Guarentee it.
IndySWG
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:49 pm
#147
GM & TH -
One idea I had (which I really like 
) to make dealing in contraband a profitable business for the smuggler was to let the smuggler operate an effective "turf".
) to make dealing in contraband a profitable business for the smuggler was to let the smuggler operate an effective "turf". The idea is that Merchants would have a new player listing option on their vendors called "associate" or something - where they could entera Smuggler's name.
If the Merchant had a Smuggler Associate listed, then the merchant would be able to stock sliced goods / contraband -- and the smuggler would get a kick back.
If the Merchant had a Smuggler Associate listed, then the merchant would be able to stock sliced goods / contraband -- and the smuggler would get a kick back.
This would allow the smugglers to build a small area of influence ... a kind of "protection" racket. And if aMerchant wanted to dabble in the black market without tickin' off the smuggler who's powerful in the area... he'd better get his blessing first (or risk the bounty system).
Some Details to the idea:
- Merchants should be able to sell contraband regardless ... but risk a small visibility increase per sale of contraband if they do not have a smuggler associate.
- Smugglers should be able to set their kick back level (say 1-5% of sale price) so that smugglers can compete in turf wars.
- There should be a modifier in the Smuggler tree that increases the number of vendors they can control in their turf at any given time.
- The ability to have a smuggler associate should be granted somewhere in the Merchant skill tree (not be a universal option on vendors ... artisan business 3 would not be skilled enough merchant to successfully deal on the black market)
This would be good because:
- Dealing in the underworld now pays.
- We likely wouldn't see vendors with 450 sliced weapons anymore ... making the actual ACT of Smuggler slicing a more valuable task to the general populace.
- It gives the smuggler a needed / valuable role in the economy ... without causing balance issues or scanning lag issues...etc
- This lets the Merchants sell what they want ... but adds a feel of illegality to certain items. They need the expertise / connections of a smuggler associate to sell effectively on the black market ... else they'll get caught.
- as a bonus it adds some value to a merchant box
I play a master merchant and a master smuggler ... and I want both to be a valuable profession. It's important that Merchants be able to stock their vendors as they see fit ...but it's totally reasonable toexpectdealing in illegal goods to have an added overhead or risk.
"Oh you want...a modified weapon ... /whisper that's on the vendor in the back room."
/shrug ... just an idea I like.
(edited for type-o)
Message Edited by IndySWG on 06-16-2004 08:13 PM
Ternque01
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:51 pm
#148
Hell yea JTGAlpha I'm right there with you. I want to smuggle damnit. No amount of people crying is going to keep me from getting that.
I see alot of people worrying for nothing about these changes, when they will be incredibly spectacular 
Ohhhh i'm so happy
Ohhhh i'm so happy
HalasterTheBlack
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:51 pm
#149
Its eloquence bears repeating...
Daker-Naritus wrote:
If you make smuggled items so annoying to own that no one will put up with it, there is no market and nothing for smugglers to do (outside of NPC missions).
ruehs
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:53 pm
#150
Your ignorance bears repeating:
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Its eloquence bears repeating...
Daker-Naritus wrote:
If you make smuggled items so annoying to own that no one will put up with it, there is no market and nothing for smugglers to do (outside of NPC missions).
RylanStorm
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:54 pm
#151
1) PvP will remain consentual. It will be a choice. Use sliced gear and PvP. Don't use sliced gear and not be PvP.
2) Adding needed things to any profession is done so at the expense of the other professions. Doctor buffs are great for doctors but are required expense to PvP. BF is great for entertainers but not for everyone with BF. Weapon decay is good for weaponsmiths but not for everyone else. I could keep going on.
So penalising players for using sliced gear is good for us but not for them. Big deal.
3) This is our revamp. Not the other professions. We should ask for things that make the smuggler useful!
3) Increase in the illegality of spices in itself is not a good idea. But with an increase to utility, combined with the suspected already planned nerf to doctor buffs could make them useful again. However, they give a distinct advantage whilst not being commonplace and again...a choice has to be made.
I wonder Halastas what you would have for our revamp. If you discard everything which inconveniences other players what exactly do we have? A delivery mission where we get attacked?
Jhovial
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:55 pm
#152
>>Even if 20% of people quit using spices because of the scans, that is unacceptable...don't you agree?<<
Actually I couldnt disagree more! Illegal goods are suppose to be just that. Illegal. I would say it is safe to say that 20% of the real world population does there best not to posses any illegal items/break laws. If I loose 20% of my clinets do to the fact they dont want to be harrased by scans, I can charge that much more to the 80% that are still using them. Further they won't mind being charged more as they will have a definate edge over anyone not using them.
Furthermore, except for the complete "loners" most people in the game associate with others. There is a good chance that at least one of their friends will have smuggling of some skill and will be able to help ferry many people around with contraband.
I'm asking for changes that will a) Make the game more social. b) Make the game more in line with the star wars universe. c) Make the game actually have real risks and rewards so that it is actually fun to play. The current setup of slice a weapon and never see the person again until they need another slice does not fit any of the above agenda.
JTGAlpha
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:57 pm
#153
I disagree that this will make the community not buy our stuff. It's really not THAT big an inconvenience. They'll get over it. They'll find ways around it, some will involve us, some won't (Did the droid storage bug ever get fixed? Don't think so.). And as long as what we do provides an edge in PvP they WILL still buy from us. No matter HOW much we charge. All that we HAVE to make sure of is that the risk (or annoyance if you insist) is worth the reward. That's it. I will NOT give up on smuggling just because some pansy-ass whiney players might be a little inconvenienced by them. This is DRUGS and ILLEGAL weaponry we're talking about here. Not Candy and Free Speech.
HalasterTheBlack
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:58 pm
#154
ruehs wrote:
Your ignorance bears repeating:
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Careful, Turneq will report you... 
Anyway, I've said my peace. I trust that GM created this thread to read the responses. There is nothing more I can add to it now without turning it into more of a pissing match, so I'm out.
I'm glad this is a long time away, so we'll all definitely have a chance to apply some logical, critical thought to what we can do to better not only Smuggler, buteveryone's gameoverall by bettering Smuggler.
SBRD0C
Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:04 pm
#155
GreenMarine wrote:
*snip*
Smugglers may attempt to find out or reduce the visibility of any player by slicing a bounty hunter terminal. Failure to successfully slice the terminal will result in the smuggler being immediately added to the terminal. Clamps cannot be used in this form of slicing. (This will be a new type of slicing, not wire cutting.) More information on this is available in the slicing section.
*snip*
Hell yeah! its about time someone realizes you don't need to cut wires to hack a terminal!!
ruehs
Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:04 pm
#156
I can't wait.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Use tactics for the situation, enter a starport buffed, armored, and grouped. You act like a mercenary carrying illegaly modified weapons and armor around. The time has come to actually enforce the law. Perhaps the time has also come for you to target the law.
To be honest they have said that they will slightly increase scan rates. They hardly scan at all now. I think you are needlessly worrying here. Go to Kaadara Naboo one day. There is a Stormtrooper who hangs out in front of the starport and scans nearly everone he comes across. I'm not kidding. You should go there and find out. I know where he likes to hang out, and I avoid coming into range with him.
Some further tactics include rushing past the scan team when alot of other people go past them.
There are solutions to your problem, but keeping the power of the law nuetered makes absolutely no sense in the Star Wars universe considering that 95% of the adventures in the Star Wars movies come from evading the law....
For those who cry about needing their composite sliced... Composite will be nerfed in the near future, you might be wanting to look for other kinds of armor anyway. Last I checked the most important parts to wear are the helm, chest, pants and boots, and they seldom all need slicing to wear. Furthermore composite can be made in low encumbrance varieties. Only the heavily layered stuff NEEDS to be sliced to wear the essential pieces. For those who cry about sliced weapons.. buy a powerup.. they do the same thing and are legal.
Lastly, Halaster, you claim that we should take a closer look at the nerfs... let's do that now. Many players will deeply consider not using sliced gear. When our revamp hits, our abilities to slice gear for certain stats will be increased (GM said he'd like a feature that allowed us to have an improved chance at slicing a particular stat on a weapon). For those players that trutly desire sliced gear, they will have to live a life style of a character that uses illegal goods. The benefits they derive from our slicing will be increased in general as will the risks they have to endure using them. It's all supply and demand. I see absolutely no end to demand considering that all GCW participants will find great use in it's benefits. Smuggler can then charge more to slice what are "supposed to be" in the Star Wars universe rare items.
You are right about one thing, some people will have to choose not to used sliced gear. That's how it should be. I don't really mind because a real "law" will be implemented. You can always use a powerup and opt for ultra-low encumbrance composite. No sweat on me. I will be charging 15k a slice in the future when i can guarantee a quality modification.
Selfish? Yes, but I'm selfish for the Star Wars I've read about and watched.
This is the birth of a whole new criminal aspect that has long waited to fill the void of not having one in ourStar Wars galaxy.
2 major glaring problems:
(1) If you are advacating that everyone just buff up and run through check points....fine. That is exactly what people will do, and smuggler will STILL have nothing to smuggle even after the revamp. The point is that smuggling has to be incorporated into the game in a way that (1) gives smugglers a role thatother playerswant/need(2) without annoying the living crap out of the other 30+ classes.
If your attitude is "screw you, deal with it" that is exactly the attitude everyone else will be taking toward you when you are at the star port spamming "Smuggling Items for Ticket + 1cr" and people are still just "getting buffs and dealing with the checkpoints." Smugglers need to provide a service to other classes...they do not need to be iron fist beat onto the other players by a 900 pound gorilla with "DEV" stamped on his forehead.
(2) I don't know whyuber doodslike you keep railing on the "composite whiners" but let me give you a news flash: EVERY TYPE OF ARMOR IN THE GAME SHOULD BE WEARABLE. So they are nerfing it...so what? That doesn't change the fact thatcomposite can't be worn without slicing.
When it gets nerfed, NO ONE will wear composite because of the high encumberance. That is wrong. ALL armor should be wearable. Truthfully, in the ideal world ALL armor would have the exact same HAM cost, and each type would have strengths and weaknesses.
Example: Composite 25% to all resistances (general overall protection); Ubese 50% to Kinetic and 3 other resistances 10% to all others; Padded 50% to Energy and 3 other resistances 10% to all others.
For Armorsmiths sake, ALL armor needs to be wearable and have a place in the game. Otherwise what is the reason to even try to fix it?