Smuggler Archive
Thread: Poll: Contraband on Vendors
Ipseck wrote:
I'm not getting whats so confusing here. These are the only options on the plate for now. It doesn't matter whether thats acecptable to your or not, its a fact. So why don't we take this in stride, vote A, and have the groundwork for some cool chit when the revamp comes.
) job to hear all the opinions out there ... it is not their job to provide us with a list of possible opinions. If they are doing this then shame on them ... if a DEV is doing this then we deserve to know that.
IndySWG wrote:
Ipseck wrote:
I'm not getting whats so confusing here. These are the only options on the plate for now. It doesn't matter whether thats acecptable to your or not, its a fact. So why don't we take this in stride, vote A, and have the groundwork for some cool chit when the revamp comes.
Who told you this? This is just crazy.
Place this poll with just these options in the smuggler forum and you will get 99.99% A
Place the same poll with just these options in the Merchant forum and you will get 99.99% B
This poll cannot be a valid way to evaluate a problem because its only 2 options are exteremly biased and forbids out-of-the-box thinking. It provides no real data except "how many smugglers voted" and "how many merchants voted".
If the Devs have limited us to one of two options that will be hated by at least one profession then we deserve to be told they have done so. If however it issimply our own short sightedness that limits us to 2 incomplete solutions then we need to bite the bullet and have a more in depth discussion on ways to do it right.
It's the correspondant's (and blue glowy side kick's
... that's what is so confusing - why are these the only 2 options on the table?
Will you want your slice of immersion (A) or will you want to keep your convenience (B).
Yet if option C is ever an option it will be much easier to fight from an (A) perspective than a (B). For we had chosen immersion over convenience to begin with.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Consider if you will that option C may never, ever come.
Will you want your slice of immersion (A) or will you want to keep your convenience (B).
Yet if option C is ever an option it will be much easier to fight from an (A) perspective than a (B). For we had chosen immersion over convenience to begin with.
We can always argue for more convenience, we are rarely in the position where we can argue for restrictions.
Giamai wrote:
since presumably the devs rely in part on the views of the players for design decisions, polls such as this one which is so strictly black and white, could hurt smugglers in the long run.
it would be too easy for the devs to take the simple solution as part of the mythical smuggler revamp or as part of some other patch and then other options will not be unlikely...they become impossible. the argument will be that we got the change we supposedly wanted when in fact the smuggler community failed to consider the many more interesting and immersive possibilities that could come from looking at other options.
this poll then becomes not useful...but outright damaging. there is an opportunity here to think of things that are greater than simply yes or no. there have been many of these possibilities put forward on this board in the past and yet it has been distilled down to 2 options...this is actually very sad
This is what I'm worried about. I'm afraid the DEVs will see this poll and say "Oh the overwhelming desire of the smuggler is A" ... but we haven't even qualified this poll to say "we don't consider either to a COMPLETE solution." ... and we aren't even allowed to say 'C: none of the above'.
I've been a master merchant since like 4 weeks after launch or something ... I can nearly gurantee that without some method of interfacing with the smuggler and his black market the merchants will HATE option A ... it's not a good long term solution as it will simply cause another problem in another profession (and ultimately put us back at the "What should we do about contraband on vendors" question yet again).
I meanimagine if the DEVs impliment option A saying "see we gave you exactly what you asked for" ... well yes I guess you did I mean look at the pages and pages of votes ... but that's not what we really wanted; we never considered it COMPLETE solution ... jsuttry then to get them to change it to what we're asking for THIS TIME. We're putting ourselves in a dangerous place if you ask me by not saying in the pollsomething like "While a more complete solution is being developed" -- espicially ifwhat Caylin said is true that the results of this poll "may very well affect what smuggling is in the future as to what the status quo on illegal items will be." (That statement combined with the recent "galaxy-wide delivery" example that thedevs are willing to float major changes without so much as asking the merchant profession what they think of them first ... is down right scary)
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Consider if you will that option C may never, ever come.
Will you want your slice of immersion (A) or will you want to keep your convenience (B).
Yet if option C is ever an option it will be much easier to fight from an (A) perspective than a (B). For we had chosen immersion over convenience to begin with.
The fact that C may never come is the A-NUMBER-ONE reason to not impliment a half-solution now. It's the A-NUMBER-ONE reason to run the poll with a disclaimer "Assuming a more complete solution is in the works ... in the meantime, what do you think..."
Telling smugglers they aren't allowed to consider the concerns they have from thier other professions is BEGGING for a solution that wont actually work in practice.
If it happens that C never comes around, I wll be happier with A than I ever would with B as a Smuggler.
Yet again I'll stress it is always easier to argue for convenience rather than restrictions. The opportunity to do so *rarely* happens and just as rarely will that player base accept it.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I don't have much of a problem with a half-solution here.
If it happens that C never comes around, I wll be happier with A than I ever would with B as a Smuggler.
Yet again I'll stress it is always easier to argue for convenience rather than restrictions. The opportunity to do so *rarely* happens and just as rarely will that player base accept it.
LOL ... well on behalf of the countless merchants who dont get to page 7 of a post in the smuggler forums let me thank you very much in advance for your willingness to live indefinately with a half-solution they'll all hate.
I undertand that this is a Smuggler forum and not a Merchant one, and that asking for convenience is easier ... and yes as a smuggler if nothing else were going to be an option I'd prefer A over B ... but that doesnt mean it's a great solution...it just means that it is ONE PROFESSIONS's lesser of two evils.
What I do not understand is the reluctance to say "As step one in a larger solution..." as a preamble to this evaluation to the DEVs. If "What [we] answer may very well affect what smuggling is in the future as to what the status quo on illegal items will be." ... don't we want to make our answer the most correct and word it very carefully?
Yes, as a smuggler, A is better than B. Does that make it better for the overall game? Maybe, maybe not. What a smuggler (no matter how loved) is willing to live with is not necisarily healthy for all professions involved.
Anyway,if we're asking for A we should at least be able to say "As a first step in a larger solution" otherwise we're in danger of mis-representing the REAL DESIRE -- which is a workable long term solution that wont have 80% of the playerbase screaming about it 4 months later.
) this is a captial idea. I'll get around to finding a vendor discussion thread now. /dismount soapbox
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I don't have much of a problem with a half-solution here.
If it happens that C never comes around, I wll be happier with A than I ever would with B as a Smuggler.
Yet again I'll stress it is always easier to argue for convenience rather than restrictions. The opportunity to do so *rarely* happens and just as rarely will that player base accept it.
what a few of us are arguing is that a half solution may guarantee that there is never a better solution for smugglers and in fact precludes any option that may actually make smugglers work well with other professions in a more immersive way than taking the hard line approach that this poll suggests.
half solutions are what we already have. it is not a matter of arguing for convenience, it is a matter of arguing against a half solution that prevents us from attempting toadd something cool to the profession. maybe that makes you happy but to be honest, here's what i see as a consequence...endless spammers in front of starports yelling that they will slice stuff. is that really immersive? i don't think so. maybe you are happy with a half solution but to be honest, i like to think as a group we can come up with something better.