Smuggler Archive

I got to thinking about tsomething while reading some of the other threads here.

We, as Smuggler's have to go through Pistols in Marksman to get to Novice Smuggler; and then there is the Dirty Fighting skill tree. But just who was it that wrote the rule book which states that all Smuggler's must conform to pistols?

Is it because we all saw Han Solo shooting off his Pistol, so we all assume that all Smugglers will want to use Pistols?

It has stated to become my opinion that Smugglers are also Marksman. They should not have to stick to any one kind of weapon, though the pistol of course the easiest to hide or conceal, or holster (if we ever get those) but I am also guessing that a Smuggler will fight back with just about what ever gun they can get their hands on.

So this is just a suggestion, and I know it will get flamed.. but I was thinking what if it were changed so that Master Marksman were required to obtain Novice Smuggler. Drop the Unarmed line in Brawler since Unarmed doesn't do anything for our Smuggler skills... require Master Marksman and grant the Smuggler the chance to pick and chose his/her own gun of choice whether it be Rifle, Pistol or Carbine.

Then add more skills for each of these weapons to the Dirty Fighting tree, to make these weapons more useful to a Smuggler.

I mean this makes sense. Smuggler's are Marksman, they do, do a lot of shooting to get themselves out of a jam. Granted this can be argued as close range shooting but I am sure Smugglers may find themselves in all sorts of situations. What if they have to deliver their goods to a destination on a planet and as they get closer to that destination, they find a group of pirates waiting. Are they going to charge in guns blazing? Some might. Or are they going to prefer to "snipe" from a distance, clean out the path, make their drop and collect the payment, then move on.

There can be any number of reasons a Smuggler would want to use something other then a Pistol.

So why make Pistols the exclusive gun of choice for them?

Give them Master Marksman to acquire before getting Novice Smuggler, add more special skills for each of the ranged guns to the Dirty Fighting tree... As we work on Pistols in Marksman anyway, we end up doing Ranged Support as well because that goes up with just general combat Experience so why not also work up Rifles and Carbines... and make Master Marksman a requirment?

Ok here is the math.

Take the Unarmed Tree away from the requirement to acquire Smuggler.

This gives us an extra 29 points.

With these points used in Unarmed; we have 81 points left to spend after Mastering Smuggler.

Now take those points out of Unarmed, take Unarmed out of the Picture.

Add Master Marksman as a requirment to acquire Smuggler... then after Master Smuggler we will have 110 points left to spend.

Thats more then what we have now.



Master Smuggler/Pistols IV/Unarmed IV = 169 points spent + 81 unspent points left.

Master Smuggler/Master Marksman = 140 points spent + 29 points extra; add to the 81 unspent points = 110 unspent points.



110 unspent points to invest in any other profession we chose. We can spend those 29 back in Unarmed and still go Master TKA if we so desire.

We can go Master on any of the Ranged Weapons... Rifles, Pistols, or Carbines.. and have "specials" for all of these included in the Dirty Fighting tree; and still have a number of points left over to through into some side skills.. branch into Medic some for example. How many Smugglers out there probably have had to administer their own medical treatment when they're running from the law. They don't want to be caught in some Hospital by some local City Patrol Guard or an Imperial, especially if they have contraband they're smuggling.

So; flame away if this is a bad idea. It's just something I started thinking about, that I thought made more sense then having Unarmed IV as a requirment for Smuggler when the Brawler skills seem to have no bearing on the Smuggler Profession at all.

And make it even easier for pistol/bh/smug dabblers?

Doubtful.

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CorellianCowboy wrote:
And make it even easier for pistol/bh/smug dabblers?

Doubtful.

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/agree

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fishbrains wrote:

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CorellianCowboy wrote:
And make it even easier for pistol/bh/smug dabblers?

Doubtful.

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/agree

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Hey... I almost, sorta, kinda resemble that remark. Master Smug, BH 0040, Pistol 0043. What can i say, I likes shooting fast. Plus, I transported some illegal military hardware out of the Corporate Sector for Slave I, so Bobba Fett gave me a few pointers.

When i get back in game i'm gonna try out the Triple Master. I wouldn't mind being a Smuggler who used a Carbine once in a while (Han did OK running through the Death Star with one) but when doing shady dealings there's "no match for a good blaster at your side."

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Orcajum wrote:

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fishbrains wrote:

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CorellianCowboy wrote:
And make it even easier for pistol/bh/smug dabblers?

Doubtful.

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/agree

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Hey... I almost, sorta, kinda resemble that remark. Master Smug, BH 0040, Pistol 0043. What can i say, I likes shooting fast. Plus, I transported some illegal military hardware out of the Corporate Sector for Slave I, so Bobba Fett gave me a few pointers.

When i get back in game i'm gonna try out the Triple Master. I wouldn't mind being a Smuggler who used a Carbine once in a while (Han did OK running through the Death Star with one) but when doing shady dealings there's "no match for a good blaster at your side."

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Oh, I have nothing against BH/Pistol/Smug dabblers, I just doubt the devs are going to make it take less skill points.

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CorellianCowboy wrote:

Oh, I have nothing against BH/Pistol/Smug dabblers, I just doubt the devs are going to make it take less skill points.

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Oh, i agree with you completely. But then, i fully admit that I'm a hypocrite because i disapprove of people dabbling in Smuggler, yet i dabble in both Pistol and BH. Just using them to hit Last Ditch at the cap. I'll still respect them in the morning though, i swear.

Anyway, I can't wait to see how the CURB ends up affecting every combat profession, especially in the way speeds are adjusted and how weapon range might be modified to reflect into more realistc system, providing for more variety of playstyles.

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DarthKthuolhu wrote:
I got to thinking about tsomething while reading some of the other threads here.

We, as Smuggler's have to go through Pistols in Marksman to get to Novice Smuggler; and then there is the Dirty Fighting skill tree. But just who was it that wrote the rule book which states that all Smuggler's must conform to pistols?

Is it because we all saw Han Solo shooting off his Pistol, so we all assume that all Smugglers will want to use Pistols?

It has stated to become my opinion that Smugglers are also Marksman. They should not have to stick to any one kind of weapon, though the pistol of course the easiest to hide or conceal, or holster (if we ever get those) but I am also guessing that a Smuggler will fight back with just about what ever gun they can get their hands on.

So this is just a suggestion, and I know it will get flamed.. but I was thinking what if it were changed so that Master Marksman were required to obtain Novice Smuggler. Drop the Unarmed line in Brawler since Unarmed doesn't do anything for our Smuggler skills... require Master Marksman and grant the Smuggler the chance to pick and chose his/her own gun of choice whether it be Rifle, Pistol or Carbine.

Then add more skills for each of these weapons to the Dirty Fighting tree, to make these weapons more useful to a Smuggler.

I mean this makes sense. Smuggler's are Marksman, they do, do a lot of shooting to get themselves out of a jam. Granted this can be argued as close range shooting but I am sure Smugglers may find themselves in all sorts of situations. What if they have to deliver their goods to a destination on a planet and as they get closer to that destination, they find a group of pirates waiting. Are they going to charge in guns blazing? Some might. Or are they going to prefer to "snipe" from a distance, clean out the path, make their drop and collect the payment, then move on.

There can be any number of reasons a Smuggler would want to use something other then a Pistol.

So why make Pistols the exclusive gun of choice for them?

Give them Master Marksman to acquire before getting Novice Smuggler, add more special skills for each of the ranged guns to the Dirty Fighting tree... As we work on Pistols in Marksman anyway, we end up doing Ranged Support as well because that goes up with just general combat Experience so why not also work up Rifles and Carbines... and make Master Marksman a requirment?

Ok here is the math.

Take the Unarmed Tree away from the requirement to acquire Smuggler.

This gives us an extra 29 points.

With these points used in Unarmed; we have 81 points left to spend after Mastering Smuggler.

Now take those points out of Unarmed, take Unarmed out of the Picture.

Add Master Marksman as a requirment to acquire Smuggler... then after Master Smuggler we will have 110 points left to spend.

Thats more then what we have now.



Master Smuggler/Pistols IV/Unarmed IV = 169 points spent + 81 unspent points left.

Master Smuggler/Master Marksman = 140 points spent + 29 points extra; add to the 81 unspent points = 110 unspent points.



110 unspent points to invest in any other profession we chose. We can spend those 29 back in Unarmed and still go Master TKA if we so desire.

We can go Master on any of the Ranged Weapons... Rifles, Pistols, or Carbines.. and have "specials" for all of these included in the Dirty Fighting tree; and still have a number of points left over to through into some side skills.. branch into Medic some for example. How many Smugglers out there probably have had to administer their own medical treatment when they're running from the law. They don't want to be caught in some Hospital by some local City Patrol Guard or an Imperial, especially if they have contraband they're smuggling.

So; flame away if this is a bad idea. It's just something I started thinking about, that I thought made more sense then having Unarmed IV as a requirment for Smuggler when the Brawler skills seem to have no bearing on the Smuggler Profession at all.

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In short I think it's because as smugglers we need to be discrete and a pistol which can be hidden among the folds of our clothes is much more discrete than a rifle slung over our shoulder. I think they were trying to go for an blend in with the scenery sorta feel. You know, slip in the back way unoticed, make the delivery and slip out, no one even realizing we had been there. I don't know, just my thoughts.

Not quite sure how it would ruin templates...

And in truth we're not really spending all that "less" skill points. As I mentioned, most of us are probably already investing in the Ranged Support tree on Marksman, just because we get that from Combat Experience, and its not a prerequisite for Smuggler. So why not just make all of Marksman required.

I mean seriously, what do Smugglers use the Unarmed skills for? I sure as heck don't use them, they're worthless to me and I never understood the point in skilling them up in the first place to get Smuggler.

Now if Smuggler included some sort of "fist fighting" specials in with the Dirty Fighting tree then that would make Unarmed more useful to a Smuggler.

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DarthKthuolhu wrote:
Not quite sure how it would ruin templates...

And in truth we're not really spending all that "less" skill points. As I mentioned, most of us are probably already investing in the Ranged Support tree on Marksman, just because we get that from Combat Experience, and its not a prerequisite for Smuggler. So why not just make all of Marksman required.

I mean seriously, what do Smugglers use the Unarmed skills for? I sure as heck don't use them, they're worthless to me and I never understood the point in skilling them up in the first place to get Smuggler.

Now if Smuggler included some sort of "fist fighting" specials in with the Dirty Fighting tree then that would make Unarmed more useful to a Smuggler.

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Not familiar with the popular Triple-Master template, are you? M.Smuggler/M.Pistoleer/TKM.

As it currently stands, one can achieve this template with 3 points left over. If you changed the Unarmed prereq to something else, this template then becomes impossible. And, by changing the PreReqs to Master Marksman (instead of Unarmed 4) you have net loss of 19 available skill points. The current pre-reqs (pistol4 & unarmed4) total 58 Skill points. Master Marksman requires 77 skill points. Almost anyone who has a template wich includes a melee profession would have to sacrifice some aspect of their template to accomodate Master Marksman.

And many people do agree with you that, because we invest 29 points in the Unarmed line, Smuggler should have some Unarmed skills or benefits similar to our Pistol skills. Like someone said above, however, you can't really change the requirements, only eliminate requirement. And as our requirements are only two trees, we'd be too unbalanced by eliminating one. The only workable solution would be as GreenMarine had suggested, developing a way where any ONE Ranged and ONE Melee tree were requirements, thus giving Smugglers more variety.

I don't have the time to look up the post, but I remember GreenMarine stating that he would _like_ (assuming it was possible) to make it a personal choice... One tree from brawler and one from marksman... Hence you could be a fencer/carbine/smuggler or a swordsman/rifle/smuggler or a fencer/pistol smuggler, etc...

NOW THAT is the smuggler I'd like to play... We wouldn't be cardboard cutouts of each other.

Personally, I loathe unarmed/tk - I don't have any interest in my charater being the SW equivelent of Brice Lee... But what other choice do I have? But if I could be a fencer and a pistoleer... ooooooohhhhhhh.....

Big happy thoughts. Don't think it'll happen... but big happy thoughts nonetheless.

But what about all that pistol xp???

Well, Spices are going away (we think) presumably to be replaced by something... We suspect (at least I do) that Underworld will use smuggling xp... Why couldn't Dirty Fighting use equivelent combat xp? That way it wouldn't matter what weapon you were using.

I don't know about making generic melee and ranged specials for the DF tree though... is that possible?

-RL

Another idea put forward before was that the dirty fighting specials applied regardless of what weapon you were using, much like point blank area 1, overcharge shot, warning shot etc, and that we should move up the ranged support tree instead...