Smuggler Archive
Thread: Conseqences for losing to BH
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MaleusGaryn
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:09 am
#1
IF the system is put in that would cause Smugglers who failed Critical missions to get on the BH boards... what should the ramifications be for losing to a BH? I know we are not Jed-cry, but should we lose XP also? I am against this because we are in no way an Alpha class. I think ONLY Jedi should lose XP upon death. That is the penalty and risk they face to become uber-criers. Now.. I also think that there should be some kind of penelty to us for failing our missions or stealing from our contacts and just haveing a BH come after me isn't that big a deal. He kills me, I clone... what's the worst that happens? No decay.. a few wounds... who cares? There isn't the excitement unless there is some kind of loss associated in being defeted by the BH. What suggestions do you guys have? What are you in favor of and what are you opposed to and WHY?
I like the idea of a "Reputation" system. Where a Smuggler gains Reputation by completeing missions and by doing so gains access to higer reward/risk missions. It can also be a system to gloat about... Han had all kinds of Reputation... he was known for getting away from BHs and being a reliable Smuggler. Ok... so he dumped spice to avoid a scan... who hasn't?
I think that if this system was put into effect for BHs as well, then they would have something to lose when facing us and Jedi as well. I don't think BHs should lose xp... because once you hit Master, unless you're trying to get Jedi, who cares if you lose xp? You can get 300k xp back in an hour on Lok. XP loss isn't the solution IMO.
If a BH takes a mission on a Smuggler and Loses.. the BH should lose Reputation. Reputation could determine what level of missions they can accept. i.e. Player bounties. Yes, I know they have a skill mod that determines this... but if that just opens up the Possibility of them doing that mission..then Reputation could determine if the mission is Available. You can be a master BH and lose a crap load of Reputation and you wouldn't be able to hunt Players until you gained your status back. You wouldn't lose xp or skills...just the ability to access player bounties against Smugglers/Jedi. Perhaps the Smuggler Reputation requirements could be lower for the BH so that some lower level BH can get into Player bounties... and only the best BH can go after Jedi. It would still allow all those BH that aren't that great against Jedi to participate in Player hunts... if they so choose.
What does this mean for us Smugglers? Well, I would LOVE to beat a BH and be able to know that that guy can't come after me until he works his reputation back up. On the converse to that... while I'm being hunted, I'm gonna be worried a bit. Am I gonna die and lose my Reputation? Am I gonna still be able to work for Jabba if this BH gets me?
Perhaps if the BH/Smuggler wins, he Gains Reputation. If a BH kills a Jedi or Smuggler, he should gain Reputation. If a Smuggler kills a BH, the Smuggler should get the increase. It would add an edge to the fight. Can I beat this guy? Should I stay and fight and risk it? Should I just Mez his arse and high tail it?
This would add a dynamic to the game that I would love to be a part of. There is so much RP potential here as well. What do you guys think? Please include WHY you are or are not in favor of this. If you have other ideas, post away!
I appologize if this has been discussed before. I was thinking about it last night while I was trying to go to sleep. Thanks all!
BEER AND PIE FOR EVERYONE THAT REPLIES ON TOPIC!!!!
p.s. please forgive the spelling errors.
Message Edited by MaleusGaryn on 06-24-2005 04:02 PM
BelarrnSorak
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:20 am
#2
Beer and Pie please 
sounds good to me, the only thing with the whole bounty smuggler thing, and even bounties in general is if the hunter with the mission dose not colmpeat this missin in a few days lets say a week the mission should be taken from him and put back on the trems. and the BH lose reputation. if he can't kill you in 7 days then he's not doing his job. this will prevent some smugglers from holding there own mission,
a guild of BH/Smugglers could block themselves from the trems if they wanted to, by getting there own mission and using a BH alt to also grab there mission.
Leyf06
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:21 am
#3
i like this...but i have a question on the whole hunting smugglers thing. what if someone is both BH and smuggler. would he be hunted by other BHs? Also, if he were to lose the fight would his bounty hunter or smuggler reputation go down? or both? hmm...just somethoughts during lunch.
Alpha_Bits
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:29 am
#4
I love it. LOVE it. Pie is the best! 
But seriously... this would be very cool. If you think about it, losing xp when you clone... seems kind of clumsy. The idea that your reputation determines what actual missions are available to your is awesome. So a low-level smuggler or bounty hunter with fantastic reputation would still be considered a 'rookie' and not have access to the big missions... but also a master that has a horrible reputation (IE: a bad player that just ground out to master... or respeced...) wouldn't get the missions, either.
I love it.
And before people start crying 'yeah, but this FORCES smugglers to be a combat class!!!' it does NOT. Smugglers would gain reputation by succeeding in smuggling missions and lose reputation by failing in them. So... bad smuggler, bad reputation (this is assuming, of course, that we're really smuggling... ). Similarly for bounty hunters... if they go hunting down an 'easy mark' like a smuggler and they get pwnd... bad reputation.
Of course, the reputation gain/loss would slide depending on the difficulty of the mission and the 'skill level' of the BH or Smuggler... so a master BH that went after an 'easy' mark like a CL34 Novice Smuggler and got killed would lose a lot of reputation, but if he nailed the Smuggler, he'd only gain very little reputation... or maybe none at all. Or maybe even lose reputation because he was wasting his time with such an easy mission.
Also, I would think that the CL of the Smuggler be taken into account in determining the difficulty of the bounty put on him, rather than just his Smuggler level.
Now where's that pie???
MaleusGaryn
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:31 am
#5
BelarrnSorak wrote:
Beer and Pie please
sounds good to me, the only thing with the whole bounty smuggler thing, and even bounties in general is if the hunter with the mission dose not colmpeat this missin in a few days lets say a week the mission should be taken from him and put back on the trems. and the BH lose reputation. if he can't kill you in 7 days then he's not doing his job. this will prevent some smugglers from holding there own mission,
a guild of BH/Smugglers could block themselves from the trems if they wanted to, by getting there own mission and using a BH alt to also grab there mission.
I agree. The same should be done for Jedi missions then too. That would prevent the Jedi/BH guilds from doing the same. I would like to see a BH come after me for a few days. I know how long I have to avoid him/her and if I can continue to get away then the BH will fail the mission. That's how it should be anyway.
MaleusGaryn
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:35 am
#6
Leyf06 wrote:
i like this...but i have a question on the whole hunting smugglers thing. what if someone is both BH and smuggler. would he be hunted by other BHs? Also, if he were to lose the fight would his bounty hunter or smuggler reputation go down? or both? hmm...just somethoughts during lunch.
I'm a BH/Smuggler myself.... If this system was in place someone like me, not saying I would, could take missions on rival Smugglers! I should NOT be able to take and hold my own mission... that's weak. Now, if a BH comes after me because I failed a Smuggler mission and I lose, then my Smuggler Reputation should drop. Converse to that, if I beat the BH, my Smuggler Rep should go up. My BH rep should not play a part in this situation. Some other BH took a mission out on me.. that makes me the Mark and not the Hunter.
Alpha_Bits
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:39 am
#7
Leyf06 wrote:
i like this...but i have a question on the whole hunting smugglers thing. what if someone is both BH and smuggler. would he be hunted by other BHs? Also, if he were to lose the fight would his bounty hunter or smuggler reputation go down? or both? hmm...just somethoughts during lunch.
I'm a BH/Smuggler myself.... If this system was in place someone like me, not saying I would, could take missions on rival Smugglers! I should NOT be able to take and hold my own mission... that's weak. Now, if a BH comes after me because I failed a Smuggler mission and I lose, then my Smuggler Reputation should drop. Converse to that, if I beat the BH, my Smuggler Rep should go up. My BH rep should not play a part in this situation. Some other BH took a mission out on me.. that makes me the Mark and not the Hunter.
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I totallly agree.
MaleusGaryn
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:56 am
#8
Alpha_Bits wrote:
And before people start crying 'yeah, but this FORCES smugglers to be a combat class!!!' it does NOT. Smugglers would gain reputation by succeeding in smuggling missions and lose reputation by failing in them. So... bad smuggler, bad reputation (this is assuming, of course, that we're really smuggling... ). Similarly for bounty hunters... if they go hunting down an 'easy mark' like a smuggler and they get pwnd... bad reputation.
Of course, the reputation gain/loss would slide depending on the difficulty of the mission and the 'skill level' of the BH or Smuggler... so a master BH that went after an 'easy' mark like a CL34 Novice Smuggler and got killed would lose a lot of reputation, but if he nailed the Smuggler, he'd only gain very little reputation... or maybe none at all. Or maybe even lose reputation because he was wasting his time with such an easy mission.
Also, I would think that the CL of the Smuggler be taken into account in determining the difficulty of the bounty put on him, rather than just his Smuggler level.
To address this portion. Smugglers would not be forced to participate in the bounties. A smuggler could take missions that aren't considered Critical and not worry about a BH coming. We could also see the "Deadbet" system... if a Smuggler fails too many missions then a BH comes after him. I'd like to see both in place. I can choose to take a Critical mission and risk a BH right away or I can do regular missions and risk, over time and many failed missions, having thugs come after me. As I understand it, if I gained considerable "Deadbeat" points I could even have a BH come after me. This is a risk of failing too many normal Smuggler missions also.
But this isn't about HOW you get the BH after you... this is about what happens AFTER a BH comes after you. And just because you have a BH after you doesn't mean you are forced to fight.... Hit him with Concussion Shot and RUN!!! I also think that BH should be able to chase us in space. If I run to a starship term with a BH hot on my tail and launch to space, the BH should be able to launch as well. Many Many times have we seen BH/Mark chases and combat in space in the movies and even more so in the expanded universe. If I survive in space against the BH long enough to launch to Hyperspace, then the BH will have to track me again.... I got away and it incorporated JTL. Smugglers should have good ships! =)
BH could get a new droid/ship componant. Droid Engineers and Shipwrights could colaborate to make a tracker-type warhead. You load it like you would a missle. If the BH can launch to space after me and tag me with a tracker... then he would be able to follow me into Hyperspace to my destination. That would cause the Smuggler to make micro-jumps or race to a landing station because he knows the BH could be coming after him. Or he may not know it... perhaps he thought he got away with the first jump and the BH managed to get the tracker on his ship. You're cruising along to the landing station and then WHAM! the BH comes out of lightspeed right on top of you! You've been re-engaged! Put in new Hyperspace coords! Adjust the shields! Man the turrets!!!!
Anyway... that's a little off topic as well. My point was that Smugglers would not be FORCED to deal with BHs unless they chose to do the high risk/reward mission and failed or they failed numerous normal missions.
Arsani
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:57 am
#9
I don't think the mission should fail after just seven days. I'm a smuggler/BH as well, and trust me, I've spent weeks holding a single mission, waiting for the mark to either come on line or stop hiding in their player city. There's a certain satisfaction in finally bringing the elusive quarry to bay, (plus the fact that there was the terminal bounty, a 2 PA bounties, and a player city bounty all on the same jedi was a motivator)
Besidesif a smuggler DOES hold their own mission, theres still 4 more missions out there. And if the smuggler gets 4 friends to hold the mission as well...well, aren't smugglers supposed to fight smarter, not harder?
MaleusGaryn
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:13 am
#10
Arsani wrote:
I don't think the mission should fail after just seven days. I'm a smuggler/BH as well, and trust me, I've spent weeks holding a single mission, waiting for the mark to either come on line or stop hiding in their player city. There's a certain satisfaction in finally bringing the elusive quarry to bay, (plus the fact that there was the terminal bounty, a 2 PA bounties, and a player city bounty all on the same jedi was a motivator)
Besidesif a smuggler DOES hold their own mission, theres still 4 more missions out there. And if the smuggler gets 4 friends to hold the mission as well...well, aren't smugglers supposed to fight smarter, not harder?
I agree with wanting to get your mark, no matter how long it takes... but I disagree with people holding their own missions to avoid getting hunted. That's an exploit and everyone knows it. In Star Wars and in RL... no one cares if you or your buddies are BH... someone will be coming after you. Do you think Jabba would just sit idle while the BH he hired to kill some deadbeat smuggler do nothing? No... he'd send other BH. He might even send a BH or two after the BH that were "holding" the mission. They obviously aren't really working for him...they double crossed the person they took the mission from. They should be hunted too.
If a BH wants to hold a mission on a Smuggler for a month... fine... but then he's gonna find himself on the boards too. Why not? We see instances of this in the EU. Bounty hunters that failed had assasins and bounties on them as well. It's a cruel galaxy out there.... I don't care who your friends are or how many groupie BH you have holding your mission. Whoever assigned the mission would hire someone else and also put bounties on your friends.
SwenLaransa
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:32 am
#11
I like the idea of reputation gain and loss as a way to gate who can take what mission. Would mighty Jabba send a two bit green BH against one of the galaxies most renown smugglers who stole right from his palace and scrawled "Jabba iz teh suxorz!" on his forehead? No. No he wouldn't. He'd send the best. The guy he knew never failed, always bagged the prey, and always returned back.
There's no reason to trust the green BH with such an important mission. Nor would he trust a BH who has failed him many many many many many many many many.. you get the idea, times in the past. He might send them after low priority targets and let them work themselves back up.
I also think more reputation should be gained for completing a mission than lost for failing one. And only minor loss should be given for failing a non pvp mission. This would let you climb out of the hole so to speak and would keep the kamakazie retards from trying to glass cannon you over and over and over.
The most fun in BH vs Smuggler that I can see is a competitive timed mission. Smuggler picks up a mission designed to last half hour - hour. A BH picks up a mission to stop the smuggler. Payout is equal. Only one can succeed and only one gets the payout. If the smuggler dies, he fails. If the smuggler finishes his run, the BH fails.
There's no reason to trust the green BH with such an important mission. Nor would he trust a BH who has failed him many many many many many many many many.. you get the idea, times in the past. He might send them after low priority targets and let them work themselves back up.
I also think more reputation should be gained for completing a mission than lost for failing one. And only minor loss should be given for failing a non pvp mission. This would let you climb out of the hole so to speak and would keep the kamakazie retards from trying to glass cannon you over and over and over.
The most fun in BH vs Smuggler that I can see is a competitive timed mission. Smuggler picks up a mission designed to last half hour - hour. A BH picks up a mission to stop the smuggler. Payout is equal. Only one can succeed and only one gets the payout. If the smuggler dies, he fails. If the smuggler finishes his run, the BH fails.
tikimatsuma
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:37 am
#12
as a nuetral smuggler i am all for this, but it has to be mission orintated; as i have allready done my part for both factions and i like the idea of compition, like the idea of doing too many missions for a particular faction, the other factions will try and kill you. i for one welcome the bounty hunters i am a former bounty hunter and i have an ault who is. I can see it now both bountyand hunter launching bomb droids at each other fo fun.
MaleusGaryn
Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:02 am
#13
tikimatsuma wrote:
as a nuetral smuggler i am all for this, but it has to be mission orintated; as i have allready done my part for both factions and i like the idea of compition, like the idea of doing too many missions for a particular faction, the other factions will try and kill you. i for one welcome the bounty hunters i am a former bounty hunter and i have an ault who is. I can see it now both bountyand hunter launching bomb droids at each other fo fun.
I like the idea of having opposing factions coming after a Smuggler that has been working for someone for a long time. Lets say that I've been running missions for Jabba for some time now. I've built my reputation up significantly and I'm pretty successfull. Well how about on my next mission... some of Nym's thugs show up and try to kill me. They shout at me "Time to take you out, Maleus, you've been Jabba's cronny for too long!" It'd be an interesting twist. I could go to Nym and pay him off to keep his thugs off me or I could start working for him. That might not make Jabba happy though.
But again, this thread is about what we think should be the consequence for getting killed by a BH? Come up with ideas that would add risk to the missions. What would add the stress and excitement when you see that BH that's coming for you? Jedi lose XP... when they see BHs coming for them, there is that heart-pounding fight that ensues because they know what it means if they lose. What should it mean for us Smugglers if WE lose?
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