Smuggler Archive
Thread: Are we a 5?
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WesBelden
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:34 pm
#1
One TLB's main concerns, relating to our combat abilities, while reviewing the CU documents in all their various states along the way, has been whether or not Smuggler matches up to a 5 in the area of Mezzing. The numbers used in the design documents need to be in all likely hood looked at relatively, 5 points being not an exact definition, but a relative guide and goal for designers to strive for.
Having said all that, we are supposed to be primarily focused on (and supposedly the most effective at) mezzing. For those of you that have played Smuggler in it and the CU's current incarnation, do you think '5' is an accurate statement and if not, what do you believe Smuggler is currently laid out as in Offense/Defense/Crowd Control?
The design documents state:
Smuggler
Primary Role: Crowd Control Specialist
Secondary Role: Medium Range Damage Dealer
Offense: Moderate (3)
Defense: Minimal (1)
Crowd Control: Very Strong (5)
All's fair in love and war is the motto most Smugglers live by. Smugglers use what is generally perceived as dirty fighting to keep their targets off balance while they defeat them. Smugglers have very low defensive ability and only moderate offensive ability, but when combined with their unique fighting style they can comfortably hold their own.
Smugglers are the dominant Crowd Control profession. Smugglers will be receiving a whole new line of abilities that allow them to temporarily remove an enemy combat threat so that it can be dealt with at a later time. Smugglers abilities combine well with many other profession abilities and will be vital in dealing with high end group content.
Message Edited by WesBelden on 04-21-2005 09:37 PM
maxtheusher
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:44 pm
#2
If you want an immediate answer, then No.
I'm reserving my real answer until they fix all our specials so they actually do something 
Or is that just more content for us? 
We pretend we're mezzing
We pretend we're mezzing
GanymedePharuu
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:03 pm
#3
yeah i'd have to say we're not a (5) when it comes to crowd control.
the way i see it, the Smuggler abilities that they gave us act more like a support profession to Pistoleer or Carbineer even.
concussion shot is wonderful and i hope the whiners don't get it removed or nerfed. and i'd imagine lowblow will be nice once it works.
but we don't have any abilities that actually can control "crowds", meaning like slowing down or stopping multiple targets.
also some of the abilities that are supposed to slow our enemy's attack speed don't seem to make a big enough difference to change the outcome of a fight.
the way i see it, the Smuggler abilities that they gave us act more like a support profession to Pistoleer or Carbineer even.
concussion shot is wonderful and i hope the whiners don't get it removed or nerfed. and i'd imagine lowblow will be nice once it works.
but we don't have any abilities that actually can control "crowds", meaning like slowing down or stopping multiple targets.
also some of the abilities that are supposed to slow our enemy's attack speed don't seem to make a big enough difference to change the outcome of a fight.
HOTDOG
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:06 pm
#4
It's hard to tell because we have so many abilities that aren't working.
Low Blow SHOULD be knocking down our targets fairly often but as it stands it doesn't work.
Reckless Shot needs to be tweaked so that it either A. Doesn't cost us so much to do or B. delivers more damage
I couldn't tell you how much Restraining Shot worked as I didn't notice a change of pace when that Huurton cameafter me.
And I never can tell if Overwhelming shot is working or not.
Concussion is the only one I've really got to work and noticed the difference. I'm afraid people are going to call for a nerf on these "rooting" moves though I hope they don't.
Last Ditch does work but I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet.
As far as being teh ub3r mezzer, I think the possibilities are there but I have yet to see it.
Karzon_X
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:10 pm
#5
Right now, since most of the specials really don't work right, I'd say we're stuck around 3 with Mezzing, as concussion shot seems to work alright.. but low blow is borked... haven't hot a KD yet... the only state that seems to do anything is "root" does dizzy do something different post CU, or is it just broken?
defenses... yeah, they're about a 1... since smuggler on it's own gets rocked pretty hard..
Offense... not really a 3, since al;l of the damage modified specials are borked... rekless shot dosn't do any more than aimed shot that you get as a marksman, and it dosn't come with the negative defensivepenalties... Last ditch is also messed up.... I don't think we should get incapped whenever we use it, kinda defeats the purpose of a high damage shot.... and from my testing, it dosn't have a damage mod on it anyways....
anyways... that's mostly what I have gotten out of smuggler in my testing, which honestly, I haven't done much since they took down TC Gorath, but I haven't seen any smuggler related patch notes since then..
Oopsi
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:10 pm
#6
i'd like us being a 5.. but my best cc shot is stopping shot right now and it is a pistoleer one. i hope they wont push this live with broken abileties... if they do so... well then Low Blow wont be fixed before Smug revamp 
Message Edited by Oopsi on 04-21-2005 11:11 PM
SBRD0C
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:30 pm
#7
Karzon_X wrote:
Right now, since most of the specials really don't work right, I'd say we're stuck around 3 with Mezzing, as concussion shot seems to work alright.. but low blow is borked... haven't hot a KD yet... the only state that seems to do anything is "root" does dizzy do something different post CU, or is it just broken?
defenses... yeah, they're about a 1... since smuggler on it's own gets rocked pretty hard..
Offense... not really a 3, since al;l of the damage modified specials are borked... rekless shot dosn't do any more than aimed shot that you get as a marksman, and it dosn't come with the negative defensivepenalties... Last ditch is also messed up.... I don't think we should get incapped whenever we use it, kinda defeats the purpose of a high damage shot.... and from my testing, it dosn't have a damage mod on it anyways....
anyways... that's mostly what I have gotten out of smuggler in my testing, which honestly, I haven't done much since they took down TC Gorath, but I haven't seen any smuggler related patch notes since then..
I don't think we're a 5 yet either. At least not till all of our specials do what they are supposed to. Still no one know what overwhelming shot is suposed to do since right now it does nothing at all.
Just want to point out though that Last Ditch works perfectly well. It does not Incap you every time. It causes you to lose almost all of your health, so if you fail to incap your target your screwed. The Damage mod depends on how close you are to death. I've used it when I was out of energy and Really low on health and did about 3k Damage, saved my life.. though I did need a doctor afterward. As it works now, don't use last ditch unless it is exactly that: Your last Ditch Effort to survive.
fishbrains
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:37 pm
#8
right now I see us at about:
2
1
3
Fix the specials and we will see. Reducing the number of redundancies with pistoleer would also be nice.
2
1
3
Fix the specials and we will see. Reducing the number of redundancies with pistoleer would also be nice.
Ragnaat
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:43 pm
#9
I keep seeing this thread title thinking Wes is going off on someone for being stupid...
"Are we 5?"
"Are we 5?"
Zeritul
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:57 pm
#10
Well right now, definately not a 5. We have too many specials not doing anything. At this moment Pistoleer is much better at mezzing than Smuggler.
Ramsey_Lanclo
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:00 pm
#12
5? No. Getting there? You betcha.
As the primary CC profession, we should be _the_ state appliers. Every special we have (With the exception of Last Ditch) should apply some sort of state on the target. And it should be a varied arsenal of states.
Reckless Shot: I'm still not certain what this does... Other than some damage and a state on _me_. Does it *Stun* the target?
Restraining Shot: Haven't noted a slow effect - Is this redundant with Concussion or is it a nice way to slow 'em up while we're getting another concussion off?
Low-Blow: I'm a big fan of this one (as the delay does seem to work). Should it still be a KD? Probably - But there needs to be a way for a KD to mean something... Perhaps if it also added an Action Skip (like Pistoleer's Disarm Shot). Anything I've knocked down in the game gets right back up again.
Overwhelming Shot: The concept would be very useful, IMHO - A state gets applied to make other states easier to apply for anyone attacking the target. Unfortunately - It doesn't work now to test.
Panic Shot: It does seem to stack with Low-Blow, so there's a bonus - However as we have Low-Blow it isn't really good for anything other than stacking with LB - What if Panic Shot scared the target into a *Retreat*?
Last Ditch: Never had a chance to test it - I've heard great things about it.
Concussion Shot: Root, baby - Root. This is the shot that people are going to cry Nerf over. Suggestion? The Devs have proven they can alter what a special does for PVE vs. PVP - Re: Feign Death - In a PvP environment, make Concussion shot a *Snare* instead of a *Root*.
So there are seven offensive specials in Smuggler.
Their effects:
One Root
Two Delays
One State Resist Debuff
We have no *Stun* (Unless Reckless shot does that), no *Dizzy*, no *Knockdown* (unless it's broken in LB), no action skip (Like Pistoleer's Disarm).
Hmm... I was thinking we were a four when I started writing this... Now I think we're closer to a three.
EDIT: Just noticed the BH is supposed to be a "1" at CC and yet the pistols line has a dizzy and a knockdown. Hmmm...
As the primary CC profession, we should be _the_ state appliers. Every special we have (With the exception of Last Ditch) should apply some sort of state on the target. And it should be a varied arsenal of states.
Reckless Shot: I'm still not certain what this does... Other than some damage and a state on _me_. Does it *Stun* the target?
Restraining Shot: Haven't noted a slow effect - Is this redundant with Concussion or is it a nice way to slow 'em up while we're getting another concussion off?
Low-Blow: I'm a big fan of this one (as the delay does seem to work). Should it still be a KD? Probably - But there needs to be a way for a KD to mean something... Perhaps if it also added an Action Skip (like Pistoleer's Disarm Shot). Anything I've knocked down in the game gets right back up again.
Overwhelming Shot: The concept would be very useful, IMHO - A state gets applied to make other states easier to apply for anyone attacking the target. Unfortunately - It doesn't work now to test.
Panic Shot: It does seem to stack with Low-Blow, so there's a bonus - However as we have Low-Blow it isn't really good for anything other than stacking with LB - What if Panic Shot scared the target into a *Retreat*?
Last Ditch: Never had a chance to test it - I've heard great things about it.
Concussion Shot: Root, baby - Root. This is the shot that people are going to cry Nerf over. Suggestion? The Devs have proven they can alter what a special does for PVE vs. PVP - Re: Feign Death - In a PvP environment, make Concussion shot a *Snare* instead of a *Root*.
So there are seven offensive specials in Smuggler.
Their effects:
One Root
Two Delays
One State Resist Debuff
We have no *Stun* (Unless Reckless shot does that), no *Dizzy*, no *Knockdown* (unless it's broken in LB), no action skip (Like Pistoleer's Disarm).
Hmm... I was thinking we were a four when I started writing this... Now I think we're closer to a three.
EDIT: Just noticed the BH is supposed to be a "1" at CC and yet the pistols line has a dizzy and a knockdown. Hmmm...
Message Edited by Ramsey_Lanclo on 04-21-2005 04:02 PM
GanymedePharuu
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:55 pm
#13
they can't nerf the "root" shots.
people WILL whine and cry nerf against those abilities. but rooting is NOTanautomatic /win buttons by any means.
ranged professions, particularly the short ranged pistols, need a way to keep enemies at bay. rooting does this very nicely.
but there are waysfor someone who is rooted to still defeat us.
hopefully the devs will realize this, and they won't give in to the whiners. because isn't that part of what put the game out of balance in the first place?
if they nerf rooting shots then all this balancing work will have been for naught.
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