Smuggler Archive

[Edited because I found out I have an edit button. woo]

Salient Detail: Smuggler Missions, Smuggler Infamy/Bounties

The first major challenge presented in the Overview is actually in the second part: Creating drawbacks to Smuggler acquisition of goods and services. We can easily think of desirable Smuggler items and services, but what are the challenges Smugglers are presented with in their acquisition? Essentially, what form does the Content take? More specifically, are those risks and challenges PvE or PvP in nature?

So here we present two ways of delivering that content, whichcould be implemented in tandem, and the ups and downs of each. Smuggler Infamy (the PvP method) and Smuggler Missions (the PvE method). I actually have chosen to outline a system where the two methods are tied together, as two sides of the same coin essentially. This leaves it up to the Smuggler themselves to choose whether they pursue the PvP or PvE path, or whatever mixture of the two they prefer.

Smuggler Infamy

• Smuggler activities (Slicing, trading spice, purchasing or selling Faction) generate a sort of visibility or Infamy rating.
  
• Infamy increase can be dependant upon the quality, quantity and frequency of Smuggler acquisitions. Smugglerscan choose to limit the quality, quantity and frequency of their acquisitions tokeep their Infamy low.It is essentially optional.
  
• Upon reaching some threshold of Infamy, a Bounty is placed on the Smuggler.
  
• The Bounty is removed when either the BH kills the Smuggler, or the Smuggler completes a series of tasks involving travel and the use of Smuggler skills to appease the NPC organization that "placed" the Bounty, all the while using their Smuggler abilities to evade the Bounty Hunter.Essentially a race between Hunter and Hunted, this system would be modeled after Han Solo's exploits in the films, when Jabba had placed a bounty on him, and he was trying to "get Jabba his money" before some Bounty Hunter collected.
  
• Infamy drops slowly over time ("lying low"), and can also be reduced more quickly by performing Smuggler Missions and getting a Good Rep reward (see below).
  
• While this would require some amount of work to develop, once implemented content would be almost 100% Player generated. Smugglers deal with players, gain Infamy, and then are pursued by (and escape) Player Bounty Hunters.


• If killed by a Bounty Hunter, Smugglers lose the ability to perform Infamy-increasing activities until their Infamy drops back to 0. They can still perform the regular versions, they just can't get the Infamy-increasing bonuses to them. Essentially, their "good name" is sullied.

Smuggler Missions

• A PvE system whereby Smugglers must complete terminal-style missions to gain access to the illegal goods and services.
  
• These missions can basically be Complex Delivery missions, with opportunities for ethical decisions and unique rewards and obstacles along the way.
  
• Possible rewards include: Non-Craftable Spices, Slicing Tools that allow the highest quality slices without the Infamy increase. "Good Rep" rewards that lower the Smuggler's current Infamy rating. Basically anything you can get by sacrificing Infamy increases, and some other fun stuff as well.
  
• To remove a Smuggler Bounty, a special Mission may be required to be performed for the NPC organization that "placed the Bounty".
  
• This would of course be content heavy, since it's PvE.


• [edit, add] GreenMarine is proposing the addition of "Critical Missions" that would be Smuggler Missions that increase Infamy due to greater reward/skimming of the product. I like that idea.

With both these systems in place, a Smuggler would be able to choose the level of Risk they wish to undertake. Accepting Infamy increases would be a faster way to deliver Smuggler goods and services to customers, but also more risky. Taking PvE Smuggler Missions would be slower but safer and more predictable. By mixing together however muchInfamy increasing behavior and Playing it Safebehaviorthey are comfortable with, each Smuggler can find a playstyle that suits them. If you want to be a brazen risk-taking Smuggler, you can. If you want to be the trusted associate of a major crime boss, you can be that too.

The specifics (such as exactly what the rewards are) are of course variable, the only key elements are:

• High-end Smuggler Acquisitionsare accessed either byInfamy Increases or through Smuggler Missions.


• High Infamy leads to Bounties.


• Smugglers have skills to evade Bounty Hunters and get Bounties removed.


• Infamy reduces slowly over time (as the heat cools off) or by doing favors (Smuggler Missions) for important people.

That's it! Questions comments and concerns are welcome.

Message Edited by Vampirerobot on 06-23-2004 08:40 AM

Super Sweet Vamp!

What you got here spells out your system pretty tightly. VERY consise.
I think we are pushing along the same roads here too.

I threw up a lil' something just now based on stuff we've been batting back and forth. Maybe we can cobble something together here on these boards and edit it down to the essentials.

I'm curious about how you prevent someone from accidentally getting too much Infamy- or if you considered that.

After reading your previous post about how someone who didn't want to PvP should be entitled to the same rewards I revisited some of my ideas. I also tried to put definite points where a person was giving consent to PvP too. What do you think about that?



What you got here is MAD sweet though-

Hmmm...

I think of Infamy as a most wanted list. You get better slices and bonuses to crafting spice- etc. Cause you been doing it a while and as you go along you get to be known for it- Infamous.
But at the high end of Infamy you suffer the pangs of fame- you are on SWGs most wanted.

I guess that your Infamy at the time you go up on the boards will dictate how much the reward is for your head.

Also, I think once a Bounty Hunter kills you- you should start over or at least be VERY low on Infamy.

Kinda like any top boss that gets busted or killed loses loyalties- and is seen as soft.

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HOTDOG wrote:
Hmmm...

I think of Infamy as a most wanted list. You get better slices and bonuses to crafting spice- etc. Cause you been doing it a while and as you go along you get to be known for it- Infamous.
But at the high end of Infamy you suffer the pangs of fame- you are on SWGs most wanted.

I guess that your Infamy at the time you go up on the boards will dictate how much the reward is for your head.

Also, I think once a Bounty Hunter kills you- you should start over or at least be VERY low on Infamy.

Kinda like any top boss that gets busted or killed loses loyalties- and is seen as soft.

---

I think you are on to something here HOTDOG. After reading Vamp's idea, my first thought was 'Is death really enough of a penalty to make me want to be put on a Bounty Hunter terminal?'. Because death in SWG is almost a joke (meaning the penalty is SO slight that I really don't care that I die) the possibility that my slicing skills and ability to obtain higher level smuggler aquisitions could be affected would definitely make being 'hunted' by a bounty hunter that much more exciting and risky.

Keladonn and HOTDOG-

I actually really like that idea at first glance.

The problem to figure out though is two part:

1) If Infamy if beneficial, how do you gain it?

2) If Infamy is negative (i.e. justleads to Bounties) is death not a big enough penalty?

Ideally we want to propose systems that are as simple as possible. My concern would be that making Infamy beneficial would require a pretty complicated system (like different levels of benefit at different levels of Infamy). A (relatively) simple Smuggler Visibility system (similar to Jedi Visibility, which already exists) is what I was calling "Infamy".

Now perhaps there could, in a sense, be a benefit from being Bountied if the "Bounty Removal Missions" granted a nice reward along with the removal of the Bounty. However, that does create the possibility for multi-player exploits (a BH friend takes the Bounty Mission so the Smuggler can run the Bounty Removal Mission and get the reward), so I don't think that's likely.

Because the reward that causes Infamy gain is variable, it can be balanced to equal the risk of death by Bounty Hunter. It can also be balanced so that risk is about equal to the risk and difficulty of running PvE Smuggler Missions.

So if you could get a +5% bonus toa slice in exchange for an Infamy gain, that increase in Infamy should be about equal to the difficulty of running a Smuggler Mission that would reward youwith a one-use tool that lets youslice for the 5% bonus without the Infamy gain. Does that make any sense?

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Vampirerobot wrote:

Keladonn and HOTDOG-

I actually really like that idea at first glance.

The problem to figure out though is two part:

1) If Infamy if beneficial, how do you gain it?

2) If Infamy is negative (i.e. justleads to Bounties) is death not a big enough penalty?

Ideally we want to propose systems that are as simple as possible. My concern would be that making Infamy beneficial would require a pretty complicated system (like different levels of benefit at different levels of Infamy). A (relatively) simple Smuggler Visibility system (similar to Jedi Visibility, which already exists) is what I was calling "Infamy".

Now perhaps there could, in a sense, be a benefit from being Bountied if the "Bounty Removal Missions" granted a nice reward along with the removal of the Bounty. However, that does create the possibility for multi-player exploits (a BH friend takes the Bounty Mission so the Smuggler can run the Bounty Removal Mission and get the reward), so I don't think that's likely.

Because the reward that causes Infamy gain is variable, it can be balanced to equal the risk of death by Bounty Hunter. It can also be balanced so that risk is about equal to the risk and difficulty of running PvE Smuggler Missions.

So if you could get a +5% bonus toa slice in exchange for an Infamy gain, that increase in Infamy should be about equal to the difficulty of running a Smuggler Mission that would reward youwith a one-use tool that lets youslice for the 5% bonus without the Infamy gain. Does that make any sense?

---

My point was that if Smuggler Bounties are introduced there needs to be a higher penalty than just death. For Jedi, there is going to be an xp reduction if I'm not mistaken which could lead to the decrease in Jedi powers. The fear of losing some of your skills is what really drives the bounty missions. For smugglers, we need the same sort of thing. Because we are fundamentally different than Jedi, losing XP is not a feasible method of providing a penalty. The system as HOTDOG proposed would provide a way for smugglers to actually be penalized when killed by a bounty hunter. If having an Infamy system that can enhance or hinder our smuggling skills is too complex, maybe we need some other sort of penalty.

What if we keep the idea that Infamy simply increases 'visibilty' of a smuggler on the Bounty Hunter terminals (and to any contraband scanners) and utilize some sort of monetary penalty for being caught and killed by a bounty hunter? Smugglers ultimately are driven by the all mighty dollar (or credit). For instance, a smuggler's Infamy rises as he performs slices, completes smuggler missions, trades spices, etc. Once the Infamy reaches a certain level, he then appears on a Bounty Hunter terminal. His infamy can continue to fluctuate while he evades the Bounty Hunters if he continues to slice, spice, and smuggle. If he is caught and killed by a bounty hunter, he loses a sum of credits based on the level of Infamy he reached when killed.

Does this sound like something that would provide a penalty to smugglers beyond a simple death while still keeping the programming involved down to a minimum?

Excellent post Vampirebot

Also the idea of losing the ability to gain the best smuggling items, (+mods to clamp\spice schematics?), if you are killed by a BH is a very good one, you have more of an incentive to avoid getting caught. I also like the idea of going to see Jabba to try and get the bounty removed and mentioned something similar in another post. However the more I think about it, I believe it will be hard to implement.

The bounty has to be based upon infamy level, this same infamy level allows you access to bigger and better things, hence risk v reward. If you go and get the bounty removed does your infamy level stay the same? If so, how do you get back on the BH terms? If you go back on the termsthe next time you do something dodgy, then it seems a waste of time going to get it removed in the first place. If the bounty is removed and your infamy drops hence removing you from the BH terms, does this not then mean that you no longer have access to the missions that give the best rewards?

I think infamy will have to decay over time as vampirebot stated and there will have to be a level where you are getting close to being on the terms, and will have access to the best items, however if you keep running missions to get these items you will appear on the terms and will have to go on the run for a while till the heat dies down, (or go and see Jabba to explain how it was all a big mistake, however there is a chance he will kill you anyway), or you can try and keep yourself off the terms by keeping your missions to a minimum, this would have the benefit of keeping the rewards pretty rare so the market isn't flooded with uber weps/armour/spice.

Just a few thoughts.

Dengathar - Master Commando - Smuggler - Kettemoor

Bravo! All of that sounds reasonable to implement, although, im not a developer and have no idea how complex the coding for something like that would be. If indeed this idea is too complex, I hope that they can find a simpler way to institute Player Bounties on Smugglers.

Keladonn is seeing it as I did-

Death doesn't hold the same penalties for us as Jedi so a couple of players could exploit the system

Smuggler makes Infamy-
BH friend kills smuggler-
BH friend makes $$$
Smuggler buddy Loses nothing really-

Now if Infamy means a bonus to the Smuggler's ability- AND Infamy is hard to attain and hold (cause it's always falling) THEN a smuggler is not going to just lie down and take a death so his BH buddy can get rich.

Now the thing your talking about Vamp can still work for the PvE only player- where they get a tool/item for the bonus to Infamy but my suggestion is this-

Have it to where there has to be a specific task to open the door to being put on the BH terminals no matter what your Infamy is. i.e. talking to a certain NPC or taking a specific type of mission.

This way no one can accidentally grind their way into dangerous Infamy- and the decision to expose yourself to PvP is made with a window- like going overt.

For example: Once you reach a certain Infamy you can go to the Smuggler terminals and you will get PvP missions or PvE missions- the rewards will be the same- but the PvP missions will have instances in them where your character will risk having a bounty.

I think this would be awsome...I would love to see the high infamy be rewarded with special missions(while dodging BH's).

A 5 star for you...Caylin do you have any thoughts on this?