Smuggler Archive

Thread: Non-smugg specific: Charging to train -or- Why I dont do work for some Guilds

KaiRan
Fri May 14, 2004 5:45 pm
#1







This is the only board I enjoy conversing with on any kind of regular basis, so please forgive the OT nature of my post!



Earlier this week, I had the unfortunate experience of dealing with a young punk who's lack of manners was secondary only to his lack of patience. I had maxed out on AP a loooong time ago, and decided I would only train for money, as there was really nothing else in it for me. Oh sure, there's the occasional green Novice Marksman looking for a tier one or two skill I take a shine to, but generally speaking, it's a cash only thing now. Additionally, I try (and usually fail) to RP my smuggler more now, particularly as tripple mastery encroaches. I figure I'll get far more milage of a character I play for the sake of RPing once in a while than a ground-out tripple threat.


I am sure you'll all agree, I am not the first to ask for cash at first, nor am I the only one currently doing it. And heck, I've even done it for free anyway, just because the person said they would rather not pay!


Back to our errant punk. I logged in and trotted off for the Coronet Starport travel terminals, forgetting to turn off my title.I still suffer from the annoying bug where the last title used appears on login, even if you loged out with no title on. In this case, I had the Master Pistoleer tag up, having run out of supplies for slicing the night before (plus I like showing that tag off sometimes). Nearly to the terms, I get barraged with 3 tells from the same guy, demanding training as a Master Pistoleer. Now, I'll admit, I forgot where I was, and RP'd back. Apparently in Coronet, that's a bad thing these days.


"Whats it worth to you?" I reply.He fires off another 3 tells, barely stopping to wait for an answer to each. The gist of them was that: 1) I would be getting AP for training him (as If I didn't know that already), and I was stupid for not realizing it, 2) That should be enough reward for anyone, and 3) I was a jerk if I thought I deserved more. By this time, I hadmanaged to finish a reply to the first tell. I sent it off anyway. "I have no need for an Aprentice... I finished that off a long time ago." Feeling hopeful, I send another reply. "I dont work for free these days."A newbarage fills my screen, these far more sinister than the first. From these I gleen: 1)He is a Master Doctor, and could have provided me with buffs!2) But now I have just "arsed" myself! 3)He has added me to the guild "do not work" list, or some such.It's at this point that I notice his first name has more upper-case letters in it than lower-case... and his last name matches the guild. My reply is short and sweet: "You're trying to ban me because I suggested you pay me for training? Lol!; /addignore... " and I spent the next several min trying to decifer his name to add it to my ignore list.


All that being said, I have to ask- WTH was that?!?


Frankly, I dont remember ever dealing with his guild before, and if this is what I should expect, I'd rather not deal with them! I am of course unconcerned with the potential loss of a client or doctor's services. Generally, when I note a guild member behaving in this matter, I make no assumptions about the guild, and more often than not later see the offender with either no guild tag or a different one.


But I always question my own behavior in these suituations. Am I crossing some ethical line by suggesting people pay for receiving training? Is it unfair to believe that compensation should be requested for my time as a master? Is this a problem character, or a problem guild I have stumbled upon?


I look to you, my smuggling peers, for guidance.

Message Edited by KaiRan on 05-15-2004 06:27 PM



jnoh | master smuggler + master pilot | starsider
If you don't want me to "play the forums," then I suggest you make time playing the game more rewarding and less repetitive than "playing" here!
READ THIS before telling me I cannot complain about Smuggler
GOT SMUGGLING? - I AM STILL NOT A SMUGGLER - GOT SPICE?
Raanan
Fri May 14, 2004 6:30 pm
#2

Beh, the guy was just an impatient jackass. Ignore him. There's nothing wrong with getting paid for training someone. I remember a time way back when, when it was the norm to /tip someone for training since you appreciated it. That boner was just another exampleof a spoiled numbnuts wanting everything for free.




*******************************************************
Explorer 80% - Socializer 53% - Killer 40% - Achiever 26%
Player type

Raanan Soulfire - Bloodfin MSmuggler/MCommando
Breytei E'kre - Starsider Commando/Bounty Hunter
STLpMpNu
Fri May 14, 2004 9:58 pm
#3

Ok for your incompetiance i had gotten a LDand sent several back and that is why you got hit with several at the same time. and you are the one who responded as a ignorant person at this time i had said i would rather pay a npc 100k than to give 1 dime to you. If you happened to be full of ap pts i would have kicked you down with a tip since cash isn't an issue.


I am not a jerk to the average person but when someone is ignorant to me i will return the favor 10 full.




NoS Mall-Dragons Hold-Corellia
NoS Chef Vendor -1941 -4546
BrokenArrow11
Fri May 14, 2004 10:03 pm
#4

The only reason to get trained by another player is so you don't have to pay the money. "What's it worth to you" sounds pretty rude to me, if he wanted to pay someone he would have went to a Pistoleer trainer and not to some jerk demanding money.

So what now we go and post about every bad thing that happends in the game? Pretty lame to even put a WHOLE guild on blast over 1 person that did nothing wrong in my opinion.

Broken Arrow [OXY]



NERV OH AND I USE EXPLOITS
Anubi
Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
#5

It's your time.


It's your experience.


Do what you want with both. You are under no obligation to train anyone for free or for a price.


And yes, the hologrind has made people too used to everyone *needing* AP, to the point that some actually expect to get paid for training they need. If I had myself been in your shoes I would have added the demanding little bastige to my ignore list as well.





Ramon Sevigne, VP Resource Development, Pariah Inc.
Etienne Sevigne, Pariah Bio-Tech
Darksbane00
Fri May 14, 2004 10:38 pm
#6

OK, honestly, I think you both acted like jerks. No offense but whatever happened to just training someone because it helps them out? I mean if you are going to RP someone who comes off snotty then you should expect to get some crap back. How many times did you ever pay for someones training, perhaps back last summer/fall but it is a pretty rare occourence now.


As far as he goes, well he should have just shut up and moved on to someone else if he didn't want to pay. In the 15 masters I did I only had one person request money for training and all I said was 'I don't pay for training' and moved on. No need to make a big deal out of it, if that person didn't want the AP then someone else would.


GrdAdmiral
Fri May 14, 2004 11:09 pm
#7

Your character, your business. Too many people get confused when someone actually tries to roleplay, and even if there was no rp in galaxies, people charge if they want too. I do the same thing myself, and I've gotten mixed results. No one has ever been that patently rude about it before though. If anyone helps me with training or anything, I always tip out of curtesy to them, so long as I got the money to spare. Quite an odd name there, mind if we just call you stumpie?



"Strike me down and I shall return more nerfed then you can possibly imagine." Old Imerial saying
BrokenArrow11
Fri May 14, 2004 11:14 pm
#8

That was a good one (not)...no "i" or "e" in his name though.



NERV OH AND I USE EXPLOITS
WesBelden
Fri May 14, 2004 11:47 pm
#9







Raanan wrote:

Beh, the guy was just an impatient jackass. Ignore him. There's nothing wrong with getting paid for training someone. I remember a time way back when, when it was the norm to /tip someone for training since you appreciated it. That boner was just another exampleof a spoiled numbnuts wanting everything for free.







Heh, yeh. I remember on my very first day (this wasa day or twoafter launch, having waited for my Special edition game tobe shipped to the UK) there was a wookie trying to make his living from just teaching new skills to newbs.


I tipped and was tipped all the time back then... now it's rarely done. I still tip if in doubt as to whether they want one or not, simply out of common courtesy; more often than not people tip the money back to you,saying thanks butthey don't need it.




=======================================================================
WesBelden the last Smuggler Correspondent.
Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
KaiRan
Sat May 15, 2004 3:33 pm
#10









BrokenArrow11 wrote:
So what now we go and post about every bad thing that happends in the game? Pretty lame to even put a WHOLE guild on blast over 1 person that did nothing wrong in my opinion.

Broken Arrow [OXY]





1) As you may have read near the bottom of my post, I post experiances like this when I need to check my own ethics. I see the Smuggling community as my peers, and as such, I use this forum from time to time to see how they would view the matter. So far I read a neutral reaction with as much negitave as positive. Neutral does not win customers, and may alter the way I approach this kind of situation in the future.


2) You are absolutely right that including the guild, or "blasting" as you put it, in my post's title was inapropriate. To be honest, I did not include the guild name or the name of the person with whom I was dealing with in this situation in the body of my post to avoid pointing fingers... I forgot that when I started to type I had included the guild name in the title. It was reactionary, and has been removed.


3) In regards to this impression that money was "demanded"... I never once asked for creds. Just simply asked him what it's worth to him (what's in it for me was too harsh I thought), informed him I wouldnt get AP, and dont work for free. I also never expect anywhere near the amount of moniesrequired to pay an NPC trainer. Heck, I rarely expect any. Since this incident, I have used the same approach on a half-dozen trainee-hopfulls, and over half of them got the training for free just for saying they couldnt pay.

Message Edited by KaiRan on 05-15-2004 06:46 PM



jnoh | master smuggler + master pilot | starsider
If you don't want me to "play the forums," then I suggest you make time playing the game more rewarding and less repetitive than "playing" here!
READ THIS before telling me I cannot complain about Smuggler
GOT SMUGGLING? - I AM STILL NOT A SMUGGLER - GOT SPICE?
STLpMpNu
Sun May 16, 2004 6:28 am
#11

I think your missing the larger picture. You purposly came on here to flame -O-Xygen but you were simply expecting the newbs (OXY) to not see it and get away with a flame session free of charge. Well i'm sorry but that didn't work as planned now did it.....

Was a simple mistake we all have done it you get a LD and you are not aware so you send the message over and maybe even a 3rd time resulting with a sum of 3 tells sent at same time.

You may think its right to charge the average person whatever ammount he offers you for training, but i don't. My average tip for training is actually 5k regardless of what i am getting trained in assuming that my guild isn't capable of training me. I search out players to train for the fact that i don't want to waste ap pts by paying a npc to do it. 9 out of 10 times people are drulling over you for training.

Is asking a newb who just started playing the game "Whats in it for me" when he asks you for training right? He shouldn't even have to be put into the position to say i don't have money to pay you. To actually take bidding on training is outright rude you don't want to train make yourself unsearchable. If you charge money you should have one set price for training and not takeing bids from normal players / newbs.



NoS Mall-Dragons Hold-Corellia
NoS Chef Vendor -1941 -4546
Tonteth
Sun May 16, 2004 7:22 am
#12

Watch out now. As seen in this thread you've brought the full fury ofoxy upon yourself.


And yah, I'd charge someone for wasting my time. Depending on how bored I am or where I'm at, training can range to 3X the normal priceof a NPC.


And why should the original poster have to remove him/herself from search just to suit you? That function was put in to find people for all sorts of reasons.


Do you have any other reasons to try to justify your actions?






Tonteth
Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer/Master TKA
Tear the face off and wear it as a mask!


KaiRan
Sun May 16, 2004 9:42 am
#13




Once again- I agree with BrokenArrow, andI have removed the guild name from this posts title respectfully. Irealize the damage here is done, as this particular board ignores an Editied post title and continues to regenerate the old title in the subject of replies (unless manually changed, as I have done here). The members of this guild have my sincerest apologies.


As for the rest, at this point it is beginning a degeneration intoa pit offlaming and trolling, and I very nearly added to the fire just now before I caught myself. I have heard enough replies to my actual questions and to the actual point of this post to understand that I need to find an even softer approach, even though I have only received one single complaint since Beta. I will continue to suggest a tip for training, just not in the same fashion.





jnoh | master smuggler + master pilot | starsider
If you don't want me to "play the forums," then I suggest you make time playing the game more rewarding and less repetitive than "playing" here!
READ THIS before telling me I cannot complain about Smuggler
GOT SMUGGLING? - I AM STILL NOT A SMUGGLER - GOT SPICE?
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