Smuggler Archive
Thread: My 2 creds on the slice prices
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P__Day
Tue May 18, 2004 5:10 pm
#1
OK ive been advocating for a price hike on slices for a while now being met with arguments on doc buffs cost more to make and so on so being bored at work im writing this to hopefully educate some people and BTW i know i cant spell so no need to comment on it.
In this post i will list comparisons, reason for a higher price per slice, the reason that the amount of resources alone shouldnt advocate what a service can sell for and other things concerning slicing i find inportant.
1. The most used comparisons when debating slice prices is by no doubt Doc Buffs the most used argument by non smugglers are :
- Doc buffs need special named high quality components,
- Buffs are more complex to make
- they are more expensive to make
- Making buffs takes more time to make than the components smugglers use in making our tools
Rebuttle : Yes doc buffs are all of the above if you do the crafting ,get the resurces yourself and manufacture them yourself, but how many docs actually do all this ? in my experience about20% who then resell the ready made buffs to other doctors, if this is not the case how come if ivisit the same "pharmacy" 3 times pr week are they out of buffs or have a sign that says re stocked? the averidge doctor also lacks the "bonus" experimentation points to make the 2200+ buffs we all have grown used to. I want everybody reading this to do the following the next time your in coronet, ask every doc you see buffing : do youmake your own buffs?i can almostguarantee you that 2 - 8 out of10 will say no depending on the experimentation points the doc in question have. So basically the only work most docs do are : get on speeder drive to vendor buy crate of buffs, resell for high profit.
Stat migrations : since ID's got the sole ability to migrate a players stats, the dicussion has been on they're forums : how much to charge the price has been from 5k pr migration to 50k pr migration hm to an ID thats a 100% profit since the migration requires the following :
-open ID window
-click ok stat migration
-wait 10 minutes click accept.
And people think we smugglers are insane when wanting 10k pr slice excuse me while i LOL. They're reason forthepricing is that the Migration takes time
, wella smuggler tryingto slice for a client who dont know how to operate a trade window much less how to remove his armor and or weapon first dont have the decency to bag it first and so on.
Mind Buffs:Hanging out in the coronet cantina i was forced to see the same spam every 2 minutes :Master Dancer/musician selling MInd buffs 10k pr or 5k pr that even worse than the ID's since what a dancer needs to do togive a mindbuff is:
-getquickness buff lasting time3 hours price 2k
-/setperformance <target>
-click macro mindbuff comeback 5 mins later
though i have to admit most dancer and or musicians do mind buffs for tips, and it is my oppinion that entertainers need more ways to make money
2. Reason's for a higher price pr slice
1. its a permanent inprovement to your weapon or armor it will last as long as your armor or weapon
2. Sure its random but a slice is always beneficial even the 15% effect slices or 11% speed slices
3. a crate of 10 power ups will set you back 2k pr crate, how many do you use in the lifetime of your weapon?
4. even with a low slice if will get a better improvement with a power up on it
5. a vendor with pre- sliced weapon or suit of armor has the base value of them triples a saw personally on a vendor sliced comp armor pr suit 600k unsliced comp armor 350k that means each of that persons slices on 9pieceswas worth 27k and people buy these suits. a Sliced fkame is on a vendor at 40k twice the normal price thats a 20k slice.
Differanciating the Good slices from the great slices (if anyone can do the math on this i would appriciate it since math really isnt my strong suit)
A speed slice is beneficial for anyone not already at the speedcap meaning master pistoleers, fencers and Teras Kasi masters and of coursethose master of other profs who have speed tapes and such. A damage slice is only really needed by the persons who are already at the speed cap a Pistol 4 guy with a85- 175 @2.5 FWG5will benefit from a speed slice since it will allow him to fire more often and use more specials. whats best : firingone 300 damage shot every 2.3 seconds or firing 2x175 every 1.3 seconds?
- Is that 20% damage slice really bad?
Using the FWG5 from above 85 - 175 @ 2.5 with a 20% damage slice = 102 - 200 @2.5. the new damage is +17 min + 25 max if you now put a 33% max 16% min power up the gun unsliced would be :
Unsliced :
85 - 175 @ 2.5 with the 16% + min and 33% + max its = 98.6 - 232 @2.5
Sliced :
102 - 175 @2.5 with the 16% + min and 33%+ max its = 118 - 266 @2.5
The sliced gun actually has a 20+ to min damage and 34+ to max dam not to high when looking at them but when doing Last ditch the highest damage pistol shot in the game with its 6x damage multiplyer unsliced Gun using the averidge damage 165 with power up = 990 damage pr last ditch
Sliced Gun av dam : 192 = 192x6 = 1152 pr shot the difference is 162 points pr shot or 1620 points in 10 shots.
3. Why resource usage shouldnt be the only thing determining how much the price of a service,
At the moment the resources used by a smuggler pr slice is between 500 and 1000 credits, might seem small to the other "crafting profs" who invest several 1000 credits to make one suit of composite or 1weapon but the difference is :Other crafters can sellthey're products at vendors effectivly saving time for themselves to craft or enjoy the game, a slice can not be put on a vendor if i could i would and i wouldnthave to go through /tell hell every time i forget to turn my title off in public.
Whether you relize it or not most master smugglers actually walk around among you with other titles there are alot more of us that youthink, but why do you think we are so hard to find at times?
Like image designers and dancers we chargenot only for the cost of slicing we charge for our time, alot of smugglers investthe leftover 129 skill points in combat skills quite a few becoming what is known as "Triple Masters" which is Master smuggler, TKM and Mster Pistoleer with these skills a master smuggler like myself can get some buffs, go to dantooine, get in a group and slice the terminals getting 40k missions instead of 30k missions this way i get 10k pr slice and most of the time i prefer hunting to slicing since i dont have to deal with certain elements which shall not be named here.
4. Other things i feel are inportant to mention
- Most smugglers i know, walk around without tags since people wanting slices will send you to tell hell and not want to pay for it, simply said you want to see more smugglers pay for they're time
- Always ask the cost and if its to steep dont comment on it keep walking
- Alot of smugglers dont need to slice for you, however you need slices since youve gotten used to it
-A slice will increase the value of a weapon significantly since most weaponsmiths on a 30+ slice will double or triple the price of the weapon same for armorsmiths
5. To the smuggler community
As i see it we smugglers have 3 choices :
1. Slice at the current prices and actually hide our identity from other players since its not worth our time.
2. Increase the prices to a level where its actually worth out time, and where we are actually getting paid what a slice is actually worth
3. Full stop in slices for the public, only slice our own gear, this will actually give smugglers an edge in PvP and PvE
6. To the Non Smugglers reading this feeling like flaming and or protest
For once i will try to /lowblow you beforehand and hope it'l stick.
- I will get an Alt to do my slicing
We to be honest i dont give a damn, go ahead pay 15$ extra pr month to save to save 2 - 4 mission payout's on slicing what about the 300 - 400k for the armor and 200k in weapons will you get an Armorsmith alt a weaponsmith alf and a Doc alt to? LOL
- I spend all my time playing running missions to pay for my armor and weapons now you want more for slicing im thinking of canceling my account
Go ahead Bye /wave go play kotor
- Your slices doesnt cost you much why should it me you greedy smugglers
To be a master smuggler costs 121 skillpoints, slicing you gear helps you how does it help me if i dont get paid for permanently inproving your gear?
- Doc buffs are alot harder to make than slicing gear
check the start of this post, its covered there
- Im gonna stop having my stuff sliced
Go ahead, check back with me when youve been PvP'ing against a guy who spent the 90k to have his comp sliced to 80%+ base and owned you because you only had a 65% on your comp, or the rifleman who had his T21 sliced todo 200 more damage and blows a hole in you armor helmet
- I pay well for great slices a slice lower than 30% damage is a bad slice
Hm ive sliced T21's KRayt guns, genos, and composite for 30+ damage effect and encumb and still havent recived a decent tip from the owner. and if your so Uber that you have to have a 30+ damage slice to be happy why do you need it if your that 1337?
Finally the price of 3 - 5k pr slice can be made on running 2 semi noob missions on tat.
Any smugglers feel like contributing..... feel free specially about the math part
JobiWanKenobi
Tue May 18, 2004 6:52 pm
#3
good post and Ive been wondering about it myslef if smugglers should charge more for slices. I charge the 100 creds per % on my slices to the general public and I make a decent amount of money doing it but you bring up some very good points. People take getting there gear sliced for granted since currently it is pretty cheap and readily available, I think I shall start charging higher prices and see the feedback I get. I think all smugglers should try higher prices for a while and see what happens, most people wont like it at first but as P_Day pointed out "Finally the price of 3 - 5k pr slice can be made on running 2 semi noob missions on tat." and most people can make much more than that on missions! So I say to all you smugglers out there VIVA LA PRICE HIKE!!
true_Kieran
Tue May 18, 2004 8:15 pm
#4
I agree with you that most slicing prices are too low but please... I'm begging you, let it rest. We must have had about 100 threads now to this topic. Charge whatever you want, as soon as you have some regular customers, you don't have to care what people think about your price. When I started raising my prices I had a guy who wanted two armor pieces sliced. I said 5k a piece and additional 2.5 - 5k if it's a very good slice. He said no prob and tipped me 20k for the two pieces before I even started slicing. Charge what you think your time is worth, do it convinced that you charge the right amount and you will find people willing to pay it, but you will never convince everyone since there are too many out there who don't care about the money and if they screw other smugglers with low prices.
JoltsOne
Tue May 18, 2004 8:31 pm
#5
i've gone from 100credits per % to 5k per weapon and 7k per armor segment or 50k for a complete armor set, and no one has had a problem with it. So tonight i'm gonna see what people say to 10k per weapon and 12k per armor segment
MobusDyrus
Wed May 19, 2004 2:34 am
#6
Actually, Entertainers can buff while completely AFK...from start to finish...multiple clients...all day/night long...without ever once coming back to their pc. All it takes is an autojoin macro. Now there is a BAH for ya.
lokiy2j
Wed May 19, 2004 6:10 am
#7
BeforeI was master I charged 3k per slice and 35k per full set of comp.
I'm now master ans I have colaberated with a guildmate to charge,6k per slice with 50k per full set of comp (discounting 4k) and as I'm a die hard rebel sympathiser I'm also adding a further discount of 10k to the full comp set slice so it'll just cost 40k for a full set if your rebel.
we do guildees for free (at a great loss) and some even pay us.
so far this mehtod works well and not a soul has complained.
Personally I think the 100cr per % rule is way toocheap and as I make all my own clamps and knives I could never charge that little. I have to buy my WUKs and AUKs (cleared out my supplier this morning)and I buy all my resources as I have no wish to mine metal.
I've had people complain about my prices ezpecially when I hit a low slice but hey! they don't like it they can walk awaywithout thier weapon/armourI'm a businessman and my aim is to make money I do everything in my power to achieve +20% or what ever is considered low slices but if the slicing gods are against me what can I do (I currently take 2 brandys and wear no armour when slicing)
anyway this is my support for this thread!
Regards,
Nas Choka
YVH
Bosyn-Dallas
Wed May 19, 2004 6:16 am
#8
What I find funny is people always come back with the "Greedy smuggler" line.
My response.... Yes. Yes I am. I'm a rogue a fence a cad a ruffian. I'm not your Paladin in shining armor I'm the guy you go see when your gf got beat up by the local street gang and you want street justice.
Dodici
Wed May 19, 2004 6:28 am
#9
/applaud
I've recently raised my prices to 200 credits per % increase. I did it on a trial basis, and no one complained.
SlickDevlin
Wed May 19, 2004 7:47 am
#10
Hey man, everybody has to adjust for economic inflation and that includes (especially!) the smuggler.
I see that prices have really increased on a lot of items, so we should hike our rates accordingly. Sliced armor and weapons go for way more than unsliced, why shouldn't we get some kickback?
Also, most folks don't realize that we have to recoup our cost for clamps, knives, and upgrade kits.
I will definitely start charging more.
Juzza - Flurry
Katryana
Wed May 19, 2004 9:30 am
#11
Really nice post with lots of good posts, but really - how would you insure that every Smuggler out there would raise their prices? Undercutting is the name of the game for many Smugglers, regardless of how stupid and detrimental it is for Smugglers and the gaming populace in general. There is always going to be some schmuck who will continue to charge significantly less than everyone else for one asinine reason or another.
If only the more business oriented Smugglers could band together and put out Bounties on those players.
true_Kieran
Wed May 19, 2004 9:32 am
#12
Katryana wrote:
Really nice post with lots of good posts, but really - how would you insure that every Smuggler out there would raise their prices? Undercutting is the name of the game for many Smugglers, regardless of how stupid and detrimental it is for Smugglers and the gaming populace in general. There is always going to be some schmuck who will continue to charge significantly less than everyone else for one asinine reason or another.
If only the more business oriented Smugglers could band together and put out Bounties on those players.
I like this idea....
Civil_CH
Wed May 19, 2004 10:21 am
#13
The most used comparisons when debating slice prices is by no doubt Doc Buffs the most used argument by non smugglers are :
- Doc buffs need special named high quality components,
- Buffs are more complex to make
- They are more expensive to make
- Making buffs takes more time to make than the components smugglers use in making our tools
Is this true? How can they compare a service with such a limited duration (Doc buffs: 2-3 hours)to slicing?I see absolutely no simularity between the two.Thelongevity of a single sliced weapon or piece of armorcan last for monthswhereas you will go through hundreds of buffs during that time. Apples and oranges my friends.
My biggest complaint is the middleman stealing our profits. Let's say I slice a nice weapon for 5k which then yields a 30%+ damage increase. The owner of this weapon then turns around and sells it for 10x the amount he paid for the item (as well as the slice). We just increasedits valuedramatically, yet we get nothing to show for it other than a slight profit over our manufacturing costs.
The resellers make me angry... hehe
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