Smuggler Archive

Message Edited by SmugglinZane on 06-29-2005 09:32 AM

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SmugglinZane wrote:

With the loss of a root that DOESN'T break on damage, and the addition of a redundant special, I feel we are less of a crowd control than Pistoleer now.

Smuggler:

Low blow is not a KD, it's a delay. The only time it was useful was when it stacked with panic otherwise the delay was negligable.

Concussion and Panic are now redundant. Our root now breaks on damage. That makes sense, except maybe panic should have been made a root instead of a daze since daze only is, IMO, somewhat pointless.

Confusion shot rarely lays both states, and I have yet to see dizzy and stun effects actually work. Compound that with the fact that action pools on mobs very rarely deplete, it makes this skill totally useless.

Pistoleer:

Firearm strike KDs your opponent, taking them out of the fight for the moment.

Intimidate shot seems more effective thaneither of oour previous delays except when stacked.

Stopping shot it would seem makes them more of a crowd control profession then we are by itself.

Nothing against Pistoleers here, I'm not asking for their specials to get nerfed. I'm saying IMO we've taken a step backwards. At this point, with cooldown timers and such, we will not be "crowd" controllers since the only way to control a crowd with Smuggler specials would be to stack with Commando for area effects. Even our "damage" special is one that causes the Smuggler to take his own life most of the time. I understand they wanted to seperate Panic and LB, but making Panic redundant with another special is not a suitable answer.

Possible solutions:

1. If Panic will remain a daze effect, make it a cone or area attack. This would be fair for 2 reasons, first to make us "crowd" control, second to make it worth using when Concussion does more.

2. If Panic does not become a multiple target attack, make it a root only that doesn't break on damage.

3. Either make Low Blow have more value or make it a KD again.

I do not wish to make Smugglers and Pistoleers redundant, but we SHOULD be have more useful "control" specials. When all we now do is lay meaningless states, "daze" opponents that will never be used except in groups that play together VERY OFTEN, and kill ourselves with our only "damage" special, we need to see something that better reflects the plan for us with the CU.

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QFE - excellent post. For me to be effective with anything, I NEED to be a part of a group. I can't go out and play for 30-40 minutes by myself because I'll get my butt handed to me by things several levels lower than myself.

I'm not saying I want to be Ueber or be able to solo all content - but come on, we're a lot less effective than we should be if we're supposed to be the 5 in Crowd Control. Even the developers have admitted that we're more of a 3. This change, in my opinion gets us no closer to that 5.

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SmugglinZane wrote:

With the loss of a root that DOESN'T break on damage, and the addition of a redundant special, I feel we are less of a crowd control than Pistoleer now.

Smuggler:

Low blow is not a KD, it's a delay. The only time it was useful was when it stacked with panic otherwise the delay was negligable.Have you ever had this applied to your character? It works.

Concussion and Panic are now redundant. Our root now breaks on damage. That makes sense, except maybe panic should have been made a root instead of a daze since daze only is, IMO, somewhat pointless.I'm going to assume you don't PvP much? Preventing a player from healing can win a battle.

Confusion shot rarely lays both states, and I have yet to see dizzy and stun effects actually work. Compound that with the fact that action pools on mobs very rarely deplete, it makes this skill totally useless.Confusion shot is a BH skill, Overwhelming shot is the smuggler skill and it makes state effects easier to apply.

Pistoleer:

Firearm strike KDs your opponent, taking them out of the fight for the moment.Only works within 5m, ranged professions are meat within 5 meters.

Intimidate shot seems more effective thaneither of oour previous delays except when stacked.20% isn't much of a reduction but it's still something. I'll take a mez over this any day.

Stopping shot it would seem makes them more of a crowd control profession then we are by itself.Stopping shot has a long cool down timer so you can't apply to more than one player very often. Not to mention it does not stick consitantly.

Nothing against Pistoleers here, I'm not asking for their specials to get nerfed. I'm saying IMO we've taken a step backwards. At this point, with cooldown timers and such, we will not be "crowd" controllers since the only way to control a crowd with Smuggler specials would be to stack with Commando for area effects. Even our "damage" special is one that causes the Smuggler to take his own life most of the time. I understand they wanted to seperate Panic and LB, but making Panic redundant with another special is not a suitable answer.

Possible solutions:

1. If Panic will remain a daze effect, make it a cone or area attack. This would be fair for 2 reasons, first to make us "crowd" control, second to make it worth using when Concussion does more.I'd go for this.

2. If Panic does not become a multiple target attack, make it a root only that doesn't break on damage.

3. Either make Low Blow have more value or make it a KD again.I'd also like to see it being a KD.

I do not wish to make Smugglers and Pistoleers redundant, but we SHOULD be have more useful "control" specials. When all we now do is lay meaningless states, "daze" opponents that will never be used except in groups that play together VERY OFTEN, and kill ourselves with our only "damage" special, we need to see something that better reflects the plan for us with the CU.Coordination in PvP is what wins the battles. I agree smugglers have jack for dmg specials, but like you said smugglers are crowd control not damage dealers.

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Aren't smugglers about smuggling and legging it if there is a fight, hence the root breaking if you then attack, isn't it just suppose to be a so you can root the enermy as you leg it, not about combat.

Message Edited by StevieBUKDroidEngineer on 06-29-2005 02:29 PM

I dunno, I have to say, that from the other end of the sphere, I smetimes feel professions are TOO redundant. Like they overemphasized being able to solo so they gave everyone pretty much the same things.

This is a step TOWARDS diversifiying combat roles. I can take up pistoleer now, and be the ULTIMATE crowd controller. Or I can stick with BH and not only crowd control in a more robust fashion, but mix it in with the ability to do damage as well.

Will I have to rethink my CC strategy from my old snare/root/KD blend? yes. Will I be more effective at CC after I develop a new strategy? I believe so. I'll definitely be better againt ranged opponents, and in theory, should still be able to keep melees at a distance.

...now I just need to educate EVERY n00b commando out there on how AoE damage works... I swear, if I get incapped ONCE because of one of them... I'm going to go apesh*t

on paper it may look that we're less crowd control now, but having played it.. everythign from soloing missions to hunting sith bases to running high level content like NS stronghold we are a much much better crowd controller now then we have been.


Provided your group isn't a bunch of noobs.

My mistake Jeff, but even with Overwhelming, Confusion rarely lays both states which proves my point. I'll fix my post, thanks.

I disagree.

Pistoleer can root 1 target for 20 seconds (at master level.) Pistoleer can daze 1 target for 5 seconds. Pistoleer can debuff defense and offense (assuming the intimidate effect isn't resisted.) Pistoleer can knockdown a target.

Smugglers can daze+root 1 target. Smugglers can daze 1 target. Smugglers can snare 1 target. Smugglers can debuff resists. Smugglers can reduce attack rate. Smuggler can knock down a target (yeah, Firearm Strike is at Pistols I, which is a pre-req for Smuggler.)

Who has more?

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Nifty wrote:

I disagree.

Pistoleer can root 1 target for 20 seconds (at master level.) Pistoleer can daze 1 target for 5 seconds. Pistoleer can debuff defense and offense (assuming the intimidate effect isn't resisted.) Pistoleer can knockdown a target.

Smugglers can daze+root 1 target. Smugglers can daze 1 target. Smugglers can snare 1 target. Smugglers can debuff resists. Smugglers can reduce attack rate. Smuggler can knock down a target (yeah, Firearm Strike is at Pistols I, which is a pre-req for Smuggler.)

Who has more?

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personally I like having panic shot as a tool to facilitate the mezzing of all mobs in a given area.

Concussion the first, KD/panic any adds until you can use concussion again, rinse, repeat.

I guess if you're a commando, it doesn't matter, but to me it sure helps.

So, does the daze effect - or whichever effect is used to prevent people from healing - break on damage, or just the root?

Message Edited by Saarek on 06-29-2005 09:17 AM