Smuggler Archive

Thread: Detailed Proposal: The Maw, the Pit, and the Kessel Run!

Ifisa
Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:22 pm
#1
Real nice job coming up with all this. I think it's a good idea, and the failure/skimming penalty should be IMMENSELY HIGH. So that selling glimmerstim would, well, make you a lot of money at a high risk. Maybe even skimming too much of it would get you immediately put on the bh terminals, not just have you pay 500k and then make a mil off of it. Making it like the corvette would be good too, so you wouldn't have other smugglers or other players in your way. Good job, I like it. I also for one, do NOT endorse a jedi-specific spice, your thoughts for glim may be a bit high, but should be really good Maybe 30 minutes as if you had doctor, dancer and musician buffs (doubled if you already have them!)
yimaz
Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:03 pm
#2
Outstanding idea Nick very well thought out, I hope Green gets a chance toread it.



Yimayz Samoot
Master Smuggler & Master Pilot
Captain of the Auto de fé

Marven_Darkfly
Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:26 pm
#3
sounds fun. Would love it. I also don't want a jedi specific spice. I would rather have a spice that all players desire but can't always get. And some imp or corsec or police spawns at the delivery or when you start your run to spice things up



Marven Darkfly
Master Smuggler(again)

Taking Bulk Orders of Spice

smuggler say "W E D I G G S T H E T I G G S"


Ifisa
Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:30 pm
#4
Please, no Imp spawns to stop you, I feel bad enough killin my fellow Imperials on Privateer missions, lol.
WesBelden
Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:52 pm
#5

Looks great, it's something I'd definitely enjoy


My only suggestion would be to require the Smuggler to be in a master certed multi-passenger ship, or the veteran reward ship, in order to be able to carry any Glitterstim back with them. Having said that however, I'd also hope there'd be a mechanic in place preventing them from doing so regardless, but I thought I'd throw in the suggestion anyway



=======================================================================
WesBelden the last Smuggler Correspondent.
Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
NickHeel
Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:55 pm
#6
I don't think there should be any specific Imperial scans at the beginning or end of the Run. Mainly because Kessel is such a far away and backwoods sector that makes Tatooine seem like Corusant/Imperial Center.


As stated in the proposal itself, I believe that the navigation of the Kessel Run should be hard enough, so no NPCs shooting at you or "just one more thing" to get you.


Now, as far as however they implement Scan Teams in space if they do that...I dunno. If you took your mission from the pirate Nym and you jump back to Lok Sector and there's an Imperial Scan team waiting on you or even an RSF Scan Team if you took your mission from Borvo and they just happen to be at the Hyperspace Route...well, that's tough. That's not a "Kessel Run mechanic" and now you do have "just one more thing" to deal with.


Glitterstim would obviously be considered Military Class or Extreme Contraband so if you got scanned for it and caught then you better watch yourself cause they're probably going to be gunning for you.




THE LEGENDARY CAPTAIN N'JOH SONIK OF ORD MANTELL
Independent Smuggler N Pilot of the Famous Sonik Rogue N Forever, The Most Legendary and Greatest Smuggler on Tarquinas
NickHeel
Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:01 pm
#7




WesBelden wrote:


Looks great, it's something I'd definitely enjoy


My only suggestion would be to require the Smuggler to be in a master certed multi-passenger ship, or the veteran reward ship, in order to be able to carry any Glitterstim back with them. Having said that however, I'd also hope there'd be a mechanic in place preventing them from doing so regardless, but I thought I'd throw in the suggestion anyway






Thanks, Wes!


I see what you mean about the Master Pilot certificatoin ship. You may need the cargo space and/or "skill" to attempt such a risky mission.


Like, if you ask Jabba for this mission and he may tell you "No, my boy, I don't believe your pilotting skills are to my satisfaction yet! HO HO HO! Ask me again when you can be called a "master", I don't want my shipments running behind or my precious cargo lost because of some fool pilot getting ahead of themselves!"


I like the idea certainly, but I don't want to gate it too much. Wes, how do you feel about a you have to be IN a Master cert'd ship to access this? Like if I wanted to take WookieBounty with me in my YT-1300 but the mission was his?





THE LEGENDARY CAPTAIN N'JOH SONIK OF ORD MANTELL
Independent Smuggler N Pilot of the Famous Sonik Rogue N Forever, The Most Legendary and Greatest Smuggler on Tarquinas
WesBelden
Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:11 pm
#8




NickHeel wrote:




WesBelden wrote:


Looks great, it's something I'd definitely enjoy


My only suggestion would be to require the Smuggler to be in a master certed multi-passenger ship, or the veteran reward ship, in order to be able to carry any Glitterstim back with them. Having said that however, I'd also hope there'd be a mechanic in place preventing them from doing so regardless, but I thought I'd throw in the suggestion anyway






Thanks, Wes!


I see what you mean about the Master Pilot certificatoin ship. You may need the cargo space and/or "skill" to attempt such a risky mission.


Like, if you ask Jabba for this mission and he may tell you "No, my boy, I don't believe your pilotting skills are to my satisfaction yet! HO HO HO! Ask me again when you can be called a "master", I don't want my shipments running behind or my precious cargo lost because of some fool pilot getting ahead of themselves!"


I like the idea certainly, but I don't want to gate it too much. Wes, how do you feel about a you have to be IN a Master cert'd ship to access this? Like if I wanted to take WookieBounty with me in my YT-1300 but the mission was his?







Sounds great; It'd encourage grouping of sorts and even promote the possibility of Smugglers forming long term partnerships (I don't think that's the status quo of Smugglers, I just think the idea of partners is cool because of a certain Corellian anda certain Wookie ).


Although that would raise the question of, does the pilot have to bea Master Smuggler if the person with the mission isn't the one in the pilot seat?




=======================================================================
WesBelden the last Smuggler Correspondent.
Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
NickHeel
Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:19 pm
#9
I dunno about all that though cause you can really start getting into some nasty rules with this and that. I think the safest and easiest "rule" would be to just say the Group Leader must be Master Smuggler/Master Pilot.


I'll think of that whole Master Pilot business and try to work something out. Maybe you'd need to be at least tier 3 Pilot (3333) and fly in a "Heavy" shipor MP shiplike the Kimo, Y-Wing, TIE Bomber, Heavy BS, ect.


I'll think it over and see what I can come up with




THE LEGENDARY CAPTAIN N'JOH SONIK OF ORD MANTELL
Independent Smuggler N Pilot of the Famous Sonik Rogue N Forever, The Most Legendary and Greatest Smuggler on Tarquinas
Spec-Ops
Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:52 pm
#10
this is a great idea, i love the idea of carting glitterism through space in my YT-1300



DoltanReibisch
MasterSmuggler
CaptainoftheRogueEnforcer
Gorath
"DestroyallthatisEvil,soallthatisGoodmayflourish"
Hhalusin8
Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:17 pm
#11
i'm all for it, i read about the kessel run a long time ago, and thought i hoped they'd bring it into play, just seeing kessel was worth JTL...i hope that this comes in, it'd really make me love the game
NickHeel
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:47 am
#12





I made a decent thread about this in JtL Beta and saved it but where that stuff went to, I dunno. So I've finally gotten around to bringing it here. It's decently long and complex but it's better to have too much to take from than too little and have questions come up that bring abstract answers. So, first an explanation from The Han Solo Trilogyon pages 86 and 90 of The Hutt Gambiton what happens in a Kessel Run:

The Maw stretched before them, a collection of black holes that were sucking the life from nearby stars. Long streamers of gas threaded their way into the monsterous whirlpools of gas and dust that marked the location of the black holes. The holes themselves were invisible, of course. The reason they were called "black" holes was that their gravity was so strong that nothing, not even light could escape their pull.


But the gas and dust marked their location. There were quite a few of them.


[snip]


As Roa explained it, the Kessel Run took ships traveling in realspace from the Kessel sector past and around the Maw, then through a rough, uninhabitable sector of space known as "the pit." The Pit wasn't as hard to navigate as the Maw, but more ships had actually been lost there than near the Maw, because after successfully making past the black-hole cluster, pilots tended to be tired, their reflexes slowed. And just when they needed to rest, the Pit was waiting for them.


The Pit contained a scattered asteroid field that wasn't nearly as concentrated as the one sourrounding Smuggler's Run, but it was encased inside a wispy arm of a nebula. The gas and dust from the nebula tended to make most ships' sensors imprecise, and the pilot's line-of-sights was seriously compromised. Zigging in and out of the gauzy tendrils of the nebula was a confusing, chancy business, and there was always the chance that when a pilot zigged to avoid one asteroid, he'd zag right into another.


As you can see, the Run occurs during real space travel and not in hyperspace as a few people think, so implementation would simply be an obstacle course in space if not a dangerous one.A note that I left outis that a "good" pilot can usually make a Run in 10 hours or but I'll get to that in a minute.


Here is my vision for a set-up of The Kessel Run within SWG involving "timing", turn-arounds, the Maw, the Pit, and Glitterstim.




Requirement: Master Smuggler should be the requirementtotake thismission. A new smuggler with limited exprience should not be able to take this mission. Only your truely experienced Smugglers would chance this. Also, the Master Smuggler would need to make the Run in a multiplayer ship (VT-49, YT-1300, or the Nova Courier) for the "cargo room" to carry the shipment and to make the mission more difficult with the sluggish handling of the ships. Flying a TIE or A-Wing could make the mission far to easy to navigate. They wouldn't neccessarily have to be a Master Pilot themselves but just in the ship, so grouping with a Master Pilot and using their ship would be acceptable and encourage others to experience the Run with you.


Time: In a real Run, it would take a good pilot 10 hours or so to successfully navigate and complete the realspace path of the Kessel Run. For the sake ofSWG that, obviously, must be reduced. I suggest something that would challenge us and be considered a fair amount of time but not so lengthy that it consumed an entire night of play be any means. I suggest anywhere from 20 to 30 to 60 minutes from start, to turnaround, and back to safety if the Smuggler makes no stops. Using the method like the Swoop track timers, we could easily set up a mini-game within the mini-game to track the fastest Kessel Run too (covered in a bit).


Mission: This would be a mission from one of the higher-end NPC "suppliers" that GreenMarine talked about such as Jabba, Lady Valarian,andNym. I know GM talked about Smuggler missions being nothing more than delivery missions at the core but you would have enemies attack you, I don't believe this should happen here. The challenge of navigation the Run should be it with the exception of Imperial and local authorities on their general scans for contraband.


Reward: As GreenMarine said, Smuggling mission rewards would be credits, xp, and if you were slick enough, some of the contents of the cargo or components that compiled together to make Spice Packs. Since the main goal of making a Run to Kessel is to pick up Glitterstim, then that's all you would pick up. You wouldn't be able to "skim" anything from this mission without a certain mission being put on you by the "supplier" NPC. However, in the true spirit of the HST, if you did skim or lose the shipment, you'd be given a certain amount of time to pay off the supplier for the lost amount (covered in a minute). As far as the reward for a completed "no skimming" or l"ost cargo" Run, it would be considerably more than even the next lowest Smuggling mission and could even be judge by the promptness of your delivery with your piloting abilities coming into play and time for the Kessel Run.


Skimming or Failure: This would be one of those missions GM said would give you a warning and a chance to decline before accepting. If you skimmed some of the cargo or failed the mission completely, then you will pay a propotionate amount of credits to the Supplier for their loss. You will have a set amount of time to do this in before you are added to the Bounty Hunter terminals. Make it something short like maybe an hour or two hours. Most people are rich enough now to pay off one the spot anyway but it still sucks paying out 25 or 50k on the spot to an NPC because you screwed up.


Glitterstim Spice: Glitterstim would enter the economy in this game one way: the Kessel Run. Glitterstim should be extremely powerfull and perhaps the most powerfull buff in game. But, it should also be extemely rare and hard to come by and also extremely expensive. You won't find this stuff sitting in crates of 25 on the bazaar or a vendor for 1k credits a dose.The spice wouldhave tremendous effectssuch as "doublethe effect of your current buffs whenconsumedwith +25 to Melee and Ranged Defenseand +40 to overall accuracy". These would make the stuff extremely desirable and out of balance but would be extremely rare to compensate.This stuff will most likely be "by the order" from other players.


Ex. Bob tells you he wants 5 doses of Glitterstim. You go to Jabba and take a Run, and successfully pick up your cargo. You skim 5 doses off the top and tell Bob to meet you at Jabba'swith the money because the Illustrious One will not like this and will want his losses recouped as soon as he finds out. You deliver the cargo minus 5 units and Jabba wants 50k for the lost amount. You go outside and tell Bob you need 100k for the doses: 50k for Jabba and 50k for me. Bob pays, you pay Jabba, everyone is happy as a stim-addict on Nar Shaddaa.


Timed Runs: When you arrive at the starting point there would be an indestructable beacon that you could target and /comm with (only if you were a Smuggler)that would simply activate the starting and ending points of the Run for you. To keep this more Star Warsy you could simply have it named "Junked Scanning Beacon" but little known in the public arena is that this beacon is actually a secret smuggler beacon dropped off ages ago that tracks Runs made to Kessel for the cocky Smugglers to judge and compete with each other. Just like in the Swoop Tracks, once you passed a certain waypoint, your time would be updated. After you make the turn-around and hit the last waypoint, your Run would be completed and updated to the original space beacon for other Smugglers to view.


The Kessel Run's How To: This needs to be a track with dangerous obstacles. Think of it like a 3-D pipe maze where you can't touch the walls withoutaccumulating damageand there are dangerous hurdles within the pipe.I'm thinkingstationary large asteroids that force you to go around them or damage your ship and the walls of the "pipe" being lined with nebula that have effects that inflict damage to your ship, slow your engines, and disable your sensors and equipment. Jumping tohyperspacewithin the confines of the Kessel Run will just load youback at the laststation like you had been blown up...simply because you have.I'll go into detail on the specific parts and how-to's next:


Location: Kessel. Duh. But as big as this would be it might be best to have it instaced. Such as you enter Kessel from a different station than normal (for PvP and the like) and it puts you closer to the Junked Beacon. Once you activate the beacon you are instanced to thebeginning of theRun. You could add artwork to the rendered background of Kessel where the Run would be. I prefer this method because you can just play around with it more and make it bigger without infringing on the "real" Kessel and you wouldn't have idiots camping in the middle of it for PvP. This is closer to EU cannon since no one would stay in there just to take pot-shots at passing Smugglers.

You could also just take a chunk of the deserted (for now) Kessel system and set it aside for the Run. You could keep other pilots out by simply putting a barrier there like on dungeons and theme parks when you try to access areas you aren't "approved" or have quested for yet.


The Path: Twisting and turning is what it should be at almost all times. You need to pull up and sweep around an asteroid then dive hard over and yank left to avoid a large tendril of dangerous nebula that is forced into your path. The obstacles have to be able to do damage and must be forced in front of the Smuggler where has to deal with them. There should be multiple paths like a maze but only one true path.The first part of themaze should be distinct to the Maw. Then there should be a break where Kessel is where you contact a "Rogue Ship" that you /dock with to pick up your spice. Then you navigate back through the Maw only this time you take a different turn only accessable on the return trip that brings you to the Pit. After successfull navigation of the Pit, you are home free and can jump back to your destination for delivery and payment.

The Maw: This area should have effects on your ship such as slowing your engines if you get too close to a black hole and nebula effects that slow you down and shut down your systems. This would simulate the effect of your ship flying into a gravity eddies and anomolies associated with black hole activity. This should be the most obstacle-filled part of the tripsince theSmuggler wouldn't have a chance to get into a "groove" with their ship just yet and it's just cannon. It should also be the longest. The obstacles should be mostly black hole associate with nebula effects that slow your ship and disable it with not too many asteroids at all.


The Rendevous: After you exit the Maw, you should be near the planetoid of Kessel. Since we know how JtL works, we can simply put a Rogue Freighter flying nearby. You fly to it and dock and you can add some funny or interesting dialog to the Rogue's captain. After that, you can use the Rogue Freighter like a station and repair your ship up to 50% if you sustained enough damage during the first leg if you feel like giving up time for survival. Afterwards, you enter a new "pipe" and navigate a tougher area of the Maw until you exit into the Pit.


The Pit: After exitting the Maw you will arrive at the Pit. This area should be a semi-thickly laid asteroid field with nebula effects all around. This area shouldn't be as hard to navigate as the Maw sections and would involve more a "keeping your wits about you" feel. The asteroids would be there for simple obstacle purposes and not that hard to navigate but the deadly nebula strand located directly on the opposite side of the asteroid (where you come around the backside of it) would need a quick dodge to get around. The Pit shouldn't be as constantly hard as the Maw sections but just lull you to sleep until you fly right into something. After this, the pilot is free and clear and can either be instanced back after reaching a waypoint or simply exits the Pit's asteroid field into space again.


The Delivery: As stated above you simply, land and visit the Supplier with your cargo minus whatever you skimmed if you decided to do so and then the game pans out as stated previously.



Notes: The Kessel Run is aspace perk for Master Smugglers. As GreenMarine said, "There will be elements of smuggler missions involving space zones & space gameplay." I would like a suitable perk given to non-JtL Smugglers as that's only fair. You shouldn't need Jump to Lightspeed to Smuggler but, obviously, you should need it for soemthing like this. Non JtL players should get something as well.


I understand the scale of the "actual" Kessel Run and how it took a good 10 hours to complete. I will say this and I hope I can speak for the rest of the mostly-sane Smugglers when I say that I will not sit at my computer for 10 hours to do this one mission and I don't expect SOE to implement anything that large. What I have done is brought it down to scale and to a workable fashion so that it becomes feasable to implement and have fun with but also have scale, complexity, and fun. This wouldn't, by any stretch of the imagination, be an easy thing to implement by the Devs but they don't konw until they evaluate it, so I understand that as well. What I have proposed usesmostly already-in-game mechanics and features which is what I aimed for because more-abstract stuff is harder to implement.


I, personally, would love to see this and as much bullcrap as the Smuggler community has gone through, I think this would be a nice "Ok, look what we did for you guys to prove how much we care" gift from SOE. Smuggling should be complex and deep, just like Bounty Hunting, and living as Jedi. This would add to that complexity and depth and Star Warsy area of SWG that needs serious help.


I really hope you all like this and I would love for us to push for something of this magnitude. I think it wuold be challenging and content filled and would be great for Smugglers. Not to mention, I couldn't stand it if I had to craft Glitterstim from Class 9 Radioactive Polynomial Carnivore Hide and Droid Lube or something like that. We've been told we're a very space-based profession so I wanted to think of space content so here is something for us...Kessel Run, Smuggling Glitterstim for players, and Smuggler Bounties!

Message Edited by NickHeel on 11-16-2004 08:31 PM




THE LEGENDARY CAPTAIN N'JOH SONIK OF ORD MANTELL
Independent Smuggler N Pilot of the Famous Sonik Rogue N Forever, The Most Legendary and Greatest Smuggler on Tarquinas
Madry
Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:14 am
#13
Love it! Great idea.



Madry
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