Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smuggler Hook Ups: a suggestion for content
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Malcolm_CaKre
Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:13 am
#1
Good evening cads, scoundrels, and rogues...
The other day, I posted this on Wes's thread about spice overhauls in the combat upgrade:
+++++++Guess who's not got quoting down pat?++++++++
In case you get the ear of the dev team, while they're balancing spices...
Can we please make spices NON craftable? Make smugglers go somewhere and buy a crate of it off of a random NPC in a random NPC city. Have the /spiceHookUp command generate a waypoint for us, and we travel to the waypoint and meet the guy. Maybe the purchase gives us a short TEF? Maybe lower level spices will always be available within a few hundred meters, if we're in town. Maybe the higher level ones will always require extraplanetary travel. Maybe the next-to-best stuff will always be out in the wilds of a nasty planet. Maybe the very best (glitterstim?) will only be available on a Kessel Run, when we finally get our profession revamp (see the other truly outstanding post suggesting it).
Adding in just the non craftable aspect, and making us travel around to get crates of spice, would be a tremendous step for immersing Smugglers.
+++++++Guess who's not got quoting down pat?++++++++
The CU thread isn't the place for it, but I'd like to expand on the suggestion a bit. I realize this is all wishful thinking right now, and that's cool. Maybe my ideas will get some attention and go up the chain. Maybe not. It's all good.
First thing I'm trying to do, is reuse functionality already in the game. So, a lot of this is going to be like BH missions with their contacts and spawned targets, and some of it is going to be like the (maybe outdated??) Jedi system of finding their secret trainer.
Second thing, is trying to keep the niches our Smugglers currently have, but expand upon them. Smuggler, the current profession, has a lot of promise, and a good place in our Galaxies.
Smugglers, right now, have three main things that they do: They slice goods for people, they sell spice, and they sell faction points and factional goodies.
What I'd like to do, is put in a smuggler mission system, that touches on all three of these activities. The generic system would be very much like a BH bounty mission. When you want to get a smuggler goodie, you start by getting your hookup. (Maybe this is a /hookup command, with a suitably cool animation for whipping out your commlink, or talking to an NPC, or *groan* a smuggling terminal. Whatever works, is cool.) This gives you a waypoint to the person who has what you need, or for higher levels, a person who can point you to the person who has what you need. You go talk to them, and you can get what you're looking for. Trading with your contact may give you a TEF, or there's a chance for a complication. This is the generic system, and our devs should be able to get a whole lot of code reuse from the BH system.
Now, a more specific and better system, would be if there's a mission for each type of Smuggler job.
For spice, doing "/hookup *spicename*" can give you a contact for the spice you're looking for. If it's low-level, your contact will be local. If it's higher level, your contact winds up in towns farther away. The highest levels of spice spawn a contact in a danger zone on an adventure planet. If a complication chance is put into the generic system, higher levels increase the chances of a complication, of course. Contacts can be spawned NPCs, or maybe even random trainers or even NPCs in player cities, who just happen to be doing some pushing on the side. (much like the Jedi secret trainer system) Your spice hookup will either sell to you by the crate (individual doses are an inventory nightmare, both for player and database) or will perhaps give you a factory schematic. We're trying to make this fun, not a PITA chore.
For faction, you can get bigger and better deals as you go up the underworld line. Little transactions would use the current system, and cap out at the same 500FP. Bigger transactions would require you to travel to visit a higher-level factional oficer, but would let you converse and buy, say, 5000 FP at a whack, but have to go overt before he'll give them to you. The biggest transactions would require you to go to an opposite faction location, and speak with a traitor, whom you can bribe for a secret data disk that can be traded in for increments up to 10,000 FP or so. Performing the highest-level trade almost always causes a complication, or automatically turns you overt (in the middle of an opposite-faction base, no less), or something equivalently fun that will require help.
For slicing... well, everybody hates random slices, right? 
So, right now, we keep the current system, for slicing with gear crafted by the Smuggler himself. If you want specific slices or better slices, you go see your nerdy sidekick contact (every good smuggler has a nerdy sidekick contact, right?), and he hooks you up with better gear. So, from him, you can get, say "Weapon Damage Upgrade Kits" or "Armor Lightening Kits" and so on. And maybe some "Micro-Precision Laser Knives" that run up your slice percentages, too. Slicing is a permanent upgrade, so best to be stingy with the amount of kits that are given out on this one. Maybe a high-level mission might give you a 5-shot kit of your choice... so it would take two missions to do up your buddy's armor just the way he wants it.
So, right now, we keep the current system, for slicing with gear crafted by the Smuggler himself. If you want specific slices or better slices, you go see your nerdy sidekick contact (every good smuggler has a nerdy sidekick contact, right?), and he hooks you up with better gear. So, from him, you can get, say "Weapon Damage Upgrade Kits" or "Armor Lightening Kits" and so on. And maybe some "Micro-Precision Laser Knives" that run up your slice percentages, too. Slicing is a permanent upgrade, so best to be stingy with the amount of kits that are given out on this one. Maybe a high-level mission might give you a 5-shot kit of your choice... so it would take two missions to do up your buddy's armor just the way he wants it. This would be the basic "Yes, Smuggling is pretty cool after all" level. This would be about where I'd hope to get if there was a generic all-profs mission andspecial abilitiesrevamp.
OK, that's all well and good so far. We've got some goodies for all the fun things Smugglers do, and we're all running around all over the Galaxy fetching and running and waiting off Overtness and TEFs and having a high old time. If our devs really wanted to give us some lovin', they could look into the above-suggested complication system.
If you're a smuggler on-mission, there should be an increased chance of Imperial Crackdown coming to get you. If they land, you get an anti-Imperial NPC TEF (even if you're Imperial, you criminal scoundrel you!). This balances out a bit, because Imperial Smugglers would have to face the stormies alone, because their friends couldn't help them, or hurt them. On the other hand, Rebel Smugglers could get help from friends, but other Imperial PC's could join the fight as soon as the Rebel or Neutral Smuggler got a general TEF with his first shot. That's one option.
Another option could be to just spawn appropriate enemies on the way. Imperial Smugglers would probably get an edge here, because they can do more of their traveling through friendly towns, where they'd get help from the stormie patrols.
Yet another option would be to have the fuzz (of whatever faction) standing over the dead body of your contact when you arrive, and you've got to take them out or sweet talk them (depending on their aggro to you?) to get the info you want.
Complications can go anywhere, of course.
I would suggest that JTL Travel be turned off while ona Smuggler mission... and that any complications that show up be able to arrive in space as well. Same number of complication rolls skyside or dirtside, because not everyone is JTL enabled. Just have a spawn counter that pops stuff into existance at visibility range wherever you happen to be.
So, adding complications can be something like a Phase 2, or the "Devs really do love us after all" level. This is about where I'd hope to get witha dedicated Smuggler Revamp.
If the Devs want to go farther (yes, please!), we can start looking at a Kessel run (as per the OUTSTANDING post to that effect in this forum)for Glitterstim, or special ground locations for other special spices. We can also start looking at smuggling people and slicing BH terms and so forth.
We can also start having different NPCs have different quality stuff for us, if the quality of slicing tools and spices start to matter. So, maybe Nardo the Rodian down in Moenia might be the HOT contact for H4B Sedative this week -- either his stuff is so mellow that the downer is halved, or it's uncut so that the effect is greater, or he's desperate to move it, so he's handing over bigfat oversized factory crates of the stuff. Maybe by asking around, you can get clues as to who's hot and cold this shift, but only get to ask three questions per shift, before the informational fixer NPCs get wary and clam up. So, Smugglers would have to network and share info to keep on top of the hot score. This would work much like the current resource system, only with shifts based on NPCs and not planets, and buying drinks for shady characters instead of whipping out a survey tool.
This is sort of a Phase 3, or "Hey, didn't half of the best three movies revolve around a handsome scoundrel??" level. This is about how far I'd hope to get if Han and Chewie personally took over the dev team.
Questions, comments, and banktips are welcome. Rotten eggs may be directed to: "Senator Binks (retired), 1288 dee Mainiee Bigastreet, Gunga City, Naboo, boyos."
Mal
MavriK512
Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:28 pm
#2
It all sounds really cool! I just want to check if I understand this part right:
So that means that we would be forced to either pay for transport, or fly through space?
Malcolm_CaKre wrote:I would suggest that JTL Travel be turned off while on a Smuggler mission... and that any complications that show up be able to arrive in space as well. Same number of complication rolls skyside or dirtside, because not everyone is JTL enabled. Just have a spawn counter that pops stuff into existance at visibility range wherever you happen to be.So, adding complications can be something like a Phase 2, or the "Devs really do love us after all" level. This is about where I'd hope to get with a dedicated Smuggler Revamp.Mal
So that means that we would be forced to either pay for transport, or fly through space?
Malcolm_CaKre
Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:50 pm
#3
MavriK512 wrote:
It all sounds really cool! I just want to check if I understand this part right:
Malcolm_CaKre wrote:
I would suggest that JTL Travel be turned off while on a Smuggler mission... and that any complications that show up be able to arrive in space as well. Same number of complication rolls skyside or dirtside, because not everyone is JTL enabled. Just have a spawn counter that pops stuff into existance at visibility range wherever you happen to be.
So, adding complications can be something like a Phase 2, or the "Devs really do love us after all" level. This is about where I'd hope to get with a dedicated Smuggler Revamp.
Mal
So that means that we would be forced to either pay for transport, or fly through space?
That would be the idea, yes.
For non-JTL players, it's not an issue anyway. Figure an average of 2.5 minutes of wait * the number of hops to get to your contact.
For JTL players, it would be a forced detour through space. Launch, hyperspace, and fly for a couple minutes to get to your target planet.
The goal here would be to give time for the complications to arise. Once the Smuggler has passed the game-rolled random number of complications (0, 1, 2, lots...?) or gotten to his contact, the complications are done. If you're sly on the ground or slippery in space, you can probably avoid a lot of them or outrun them.
If no complications are in the mission system, then forcing flight for JTL players would just be a time sink, which is NOT fun.
Mal
Zeon_Zaku
Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:57 pm
#4
Sounds neat. The one thing I really don't like (okay two) are the things about turning off space travel and making spices non-craftable. Not having space travel just seems like a pain, and it would cause more harm then good. There would be many people complaining about it, and sooner or later the Devs would probably change it.
Having to buy spices seems like it would be a pain as well. I think it's fine we can craft them, it fits in fine with Smuggler. We should be able to craft spices (along with other illegal items) and not have to buy them. I just think we should be able to experiment on spices so we could get different attributes...
Malcolm_CaKre
Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:29 pm
#5
Been doing some additional reading. Lots of great suggestions.
I would request again though, that spice not be craftable. Crafting leads to two things: Mass quantities from big factory runs, and a playstyle that boils down to sitting in town by a crafting station. Spice should be rare, not a mass commodity. And Smugglers have no business sitting in town unless they're waiting for an old man and a kid to show up.
Plus, there are already lots of options for people who enjoy hoarding resources and micromanaging inventory to bring products together. No part of a Smuggler idea would suggest it needs to be another of them.
Mal
Coreceren
Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:54 pm
#6
I think this is a hot idea. I'd even consider hanging up my snowflake if dealing was this involved.
Nicolas_Frost
Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:56 pm
#7
Okay, here's an idea that's a mix of aquiring spices, and crafting spices.
Dun-dun-DUHN!
Have us go out and aquire temporary use schematics(lets say, five at the most). Then we can craft and experiment with them, and even make factory runs, but- Factory runs on these schematics are limited to a max of 300-400 doses each.
Fernas
Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:37 am
#8
great ideas, but i have a question.
why should we have to pay for the spice we "pick up". they should be paying us. is this some form of collateral? if so, do we get it back along with our payment? we're doing them a service and taking almost all of the risk. why should we pay them?
maybe the collateral is higher at lower levels and moves to none at master where you have supposedly become a notorious and "trusted" smuggler?
MavriK512
Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:08 am
#9
The general idea about not crafting spice is that we are not drug lords, we are the smugglers that the drug lords get to move their stuff all over the galaxy.
I'm really indifferent to the whole spice thing, it won't bother me if I have to buy it, and it doesn't bother me that I craft it now.
The only thing is that the spice tree could be replaced by something better if we didn't have to craft it.
I'm really indifferent to the whole spice thing, it won't bother me if I have to buy it, and it doesn't bother me that I craft it now.
The only thing is that the spice tree could be replaced by something better if we didn't have to craft it.
Malcolm_CaKre
Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:13 am
#10
Can't edit yet...
One thing I forgot to mention...
All of these would be quests to get things to provide or augment the services Smugglers perform for other real player characters. These would not be missions just to get engraved pens or 300 credits.
The wily Smuggler, of course, would ask his clients to come along for the trip.
Mal
WesBelden
Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:41 am
#11
Nice post, some new spins on old ideas
I do have an issue with the prohibiting of JtL travel; JtL is meant to be an expansion of SWG, fully intergrated as one game, not something seperate tacked on. At the moment it might not live up to that, but any additional changes and content should be moving towards this goal. It would be better to come up with a"complication" design solution forspace.
.I think the idea of "who's hot and who's not" is great, it would add an extra layer to the whole thing, meaning that the best Smugglers are those that can not only get by the authorities, but make the best use of their contacts.
You might be intereseted in looking at these for some light reading 
- Community Vision Attempt (Caylin),
- Smuggler Revamp Community Vision Doc (Geevo),
- Caylin's Smuggler Revamp,
- Kav's Smuggler Vision 2.5,
- Electricnomad's compiled ideas for the Smuggler Overhaul.
Malcolm_CaKre
Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:57 am
#12
WesBelden wrote:
Nice post, some new spins on old ideas
I do have an issue with the prohibiting of JtL travel; JtL is meant to be an expansion of SWG, fully intergrated as one game, not something seperate tacked on. At the moment it might not live up to that, but any additional changes and content should be moving towards this goal. It would be better to come up with a"complication" design solution forspace
I think the idea of "who's hot and who's not" is great, it would add an extra layer to the whole thing, meaning that the best Smugglers are those that can not only get by the authorities, but make the best use of their contacts.
You might be intereseted in looking at these for some light reading
- Community Vision Attempt (Caylin),
- Smuggler Revamp Community Vision Doc (Geevo),
- Caylin's Smuggler Revamp,
- Kav's Smuggler Vision 2.5,
- Electricnomad's compiled ideas for the Smuggler Overhaul.
The travel prohibition is for greying out the "Travel" button on the starship terminal. So, to rephrase that properly, "instant travel" is prohibited while on Smuggler mission, forcing the Smuggler to either wait in starports (for complications to come to him) or fly through space (finding complications himself). The intent is to improve the integration of JTL and Smuggling for JTL equipped Smugglers.
Sorry that was unclear. Ireally need to not try to explain things on Mondays.
Either way, it's a bit out of the core idea of a generic or skilltree-related Smuggler mission script. I put it in there, because JTL folks using the travel button can short-circuita lot of the travel invovled in what is essentially a travel adventure. Kind of like putting a teleporter in "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" would have made for a very short movie. But still kind of outside the core idea.
I've seen some of the listed threads. I'll put my office time to good use with the others.
Thanks, chief!
Mal
egbertvanloenen
Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:53 am
#13
some great ideas here indeed
and even tho they wish to get rid of the spices, they still want to be payed for it. wouldn't u?
and hey, we can alwasy sell the spices(that's what they're for, right?) and make a profit from it that way... that's the true smuggler-spirit!
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