Smuggler Archive
Thread: For all the Smuggler Care-Bears...
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Frans_Solo
Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:06 am
#1
Ok first off, I understand there are a few out there what want to be smugglers and therefore criminals but not be subject to any kind of risk. I completely disagree with this. If you chose to be a smuggler to compliment your crafting template, or just to do slices, then you are in the wrong profession. Smugglers are criminals. It should be difficult! I strongly support the automatic TEF when you use your first knife. A tef that is seen by every law-enforcement npc and every player except the player you're slicing for. Although if you want to give him the tef too, that's up to you. A smuggler can always just hold his goods till the tef is gone if he thinks the guy is going to gank him,
The point is, there are ways around the tefs, but you may actually have to think about it. You might even have to feel a bit like a criminal when doing this work. And less like a slicing monkey. You would have to discuss a meeting place, maybe even in your own smuggling house, but come on care-bears! Use your noggin! Is it so bad that they actually stop pussyfooting around professions making them so vanilla? Can the devs not finally implement some real content that causes you to feel a little nervous when performing an illegal action? Unless you just refuse to put any brains into this game at all, you can easily think of ways to slice stuff in an "underground" setting.
Now, i'll step off my soapbox and throw out some other changes i'd like to see.
1. No merchant can sell sliced goods or spices on his vendor. All illegal product can only be "moved" or sold by the individual. (now you've implemented actual smuggling into the game with this one change)
2. For the SideKick Idea, how about its done like a marriage deal. Where you could choose one other player of any profession to be your "sidekick" and he/she gets certain smuggler "enhancements" whenever he/she is grouped with you. The ability to hide illegal items. Some combat enhancements even, but only when grouped with you. You could see the uses for this with idea # 1 in effect.
3. On the smuggler missions, make them hard for Master Smugglers. Very hard with a high pay-off. That's why people get into the life of crime, to get large amounts of money fast. In other words, 20k missions won't cut it. No Master will do any of these because it isn't worth their time. With JTL I'm thinking this is a good set-up: You talk to a "contact" npc hanging around Coronet who tells you he needs you to deliver these 10 experimental rifle barrels to Jabba along with some scopes. Only the scopes will be delivered to you at this WP. The WP is located in space in the Naboo system. There you get the scopes delivered to you from another ship, but also spawning are some pirates that you will have to fight your way out of, or escape. Or they take your scopes and your barrels. Jabba puts a price on your head, and all BH's are notified.
Don't just make the content for the novices as a way to get xp. Give the masters stuff too please. What'dyathink?
The point is, there are ways around the tefs, but you may actually have to think about it. You might even have to feel a bit like a criminal when doing this work. And less like a slicing monkey. You would have to discuss a meeting place, maybe even in your own smuggling house, but come on care-bears! Use your noggin! Is it so bad that they actually stop pussyfooting around professions making them so vanilla? Can the devs not finally implement some real content that causes you to feel a little nervous when performing an illegal action? Unless you just refuse to put any brains into this game at all, you can easily think of ways to slice stuff in an "underground" setting.
Now, i'll step off my soapbox and throw out some other changes i'd like to see.
1. No merchant can sell sliced goods or spices on his vendor. All illegal product can only be "moved" or sold by the individual. (now you've implemented actual smuggling into the game with this one change)
2. For the SideKick Idea, how about its done like a marriage deal. Where you could choose one other player of any profession to be your "sidekick" and he/she gets certain smuggler "enhancements" whenever he/she is grouped with you. The ability to hide illegal items. Some combat enhancements even, but only when grouped with you. You could see the uses for this with idea # 1 in effect.
3. On the smuggler missions, make them hard for Master Smugglers. Very hard with a high pay-off. That's why people get into the life of crime, to get large amounts of money fast. In other words, 20k missions won't cut it. No Master will do any of these because it isn't worth their time. With JTL I'm thinking this is a good set-up: You talk to a "contact" npc hanging around Coronet who tells you he needs you to deliver these 10 experimental rifle barrels to Jabba along with some scopes. Only the scopes will be delivered to you at this WP. The WP is located in space in the Naboo system. There you get the scopes delivered to you from another ship, but also spawning are some pirates that you will have to fight your way out of, or escape. Or they take your scopes and your barrels. Jabba puts a price on your head, and all BH's are notified.
Don't just make the content for the novices as a way to get xp. Give the masters stuff too please. What'dyathink?
DrevenStrobe
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:44 am
#2
You know...I'm a big proponent of risk in the Smuggler profession. But I see one major problem with the TEF idea...
What about the bulk slicers who do large orders for WS / AS.I know many times the WS / AS will drop a house and give the Smuggler admin access in order to keep inventory space free.
The few times I've done this, it took quite a while to do the 100-200 pieces, and I just emailed the client a summary after I finished and collected payment.
Now, with the current TEF system, and your proposal, the Smuggler would be immediately ejected from the house as soon as he cut the first wire on the first piece. This would probably also lock up slicing for the Smuggler, since it would break the cycle in mid-slice. In the end, you would have an upset client because he couldn't get his gear sliced, and you would have an upset Smuggler...
And for the argument that making it illegal would deter bulk slicing, you don't actually believe that do you? There will always be players looking for a little extra edge. And there will always be merchants, WS, and AS, who will be willing to provide that edge for an additional cost.
Exarukun
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:09 am
#3
DrevenStrobe wrote:
................
And for the argument that making it illegal would deter bulk slicing, you don't actually believe that do you? There will always be players looking for a little extra edge. And there will always be merchants, WS, and AS, who will be willing to provide that edge for an additional cost.
But, since it would be illegal, they wouldn't want to have bulk sliced equipment around. Seeing ashow they wouldn't be able to sell it on their vendors, would get busted if they got caught with it and so on. I like the idea of getting the TEF. In fact, I wouldn't mind if, to get something sliced, you had to group with the smuggler. Then when you started the slice procedure, they got a TEF too. I mean, these guys are participating in an illegal activity. That opens up a whole new world of options. The smuggler decides he likes that pistol and doesn't want to give it back. The owner of the pistol would then attack. It makes it much more interesting. First, you are providing an illegal service, second, at any moment one of the two people could attack the other, maybe a guy trying to cash in on a bounty or a smuggler decides the guy wasn't polite enough. It would definitely add to the whole "shady" part of smuggling. The risk is where its at.
dorsai78664
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:28 am
#4
I'm not going to lie -- I have not ever been fond of the idea of smuggler bounties. Mostly because of combat imbalance and the bounty issues we see with Jedi. However, I'm a bit more optimistic that some of these can be worked out so I'm not as hardcore against it as I once was. But I think one thing many may not consider is that there will definitely be a tradeoff in playstyle as a result.
For example, if you choose to take the path of being a bounty (whether through visibility, smuggler missions, etc.) you will effectively have to seriously change how you perform the other parts of your business. You will find it difficult to slice if you have to keep an eye out for the BH. Not to mention, your customer is going to get extremely ticked off if his uninsured gear he gave you decays because a BH caught you "slippin'" so to speak.
Selling faction won't be quite as bad because you can find a somewhat secure location but don't for a minute think a BH of your same faction won't take you down -- macroing a FP sale or not.
Risk, TEF issues, bounties, etc. can add excitement to the game but we might also want to balance it with the impact on other parts of the profession. Personally, I don't really have a dog in this hunt. I have 2 combat classes, don't sell faction, and generally don't slice for the public. But I see quite a few posting that use all of their smuggler trees to make money. How will this impact their play?
Do we want to seea situation where use of one skill tree makes using the others more difficult? Kind of a rehtorical question but something to consider.
Message Edited by dorsai78664 on 06-16-2004 10:29 AM
DrevenStrobe
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:41 am
#5
Exarukun wrote:
DrevenStrobe wrote:
................
And for the argument that making it illegal would deter bulk slicing, you don't actually believe that do you? There will always be players looking for a little extra edge. And there will always be merchants, WS, and AS, who will be willing to provide that edge for an additional cost.
But, since it would be illegal, they wouldn't want to have bulk sliced equipment around. Seeing ashow they wouldn't be able to sell it on their vendors, would get busted if they got caught with it and so on. I like the idea of getting the TEF. In fact, I wouldn't mind if, to get something sliced, you had to group with the smuggler. Then when you started the slice procedure, they got a TEF too. I mean, these guys are participating in an illegal activity. That opens up a whole new world of options. The smuggler decides he likes that pistol and doesn't want to give it back. The owner of the pistol would then attack. It makes it much more interesting. First, you are providing an illegal service, second, at any moment one of the two people could attack the other, maybe a guy trying to cash in on a bounty or a smuggler decides the guy wasn't polite enough. It would definitely add to the whole "shady" part of smuggling. The risk is where its at.
Just because they couldn't sell it on the vendor doesn't mean many wouldn't choose to wearhouse the goods. It would be a whole lot easier to keep 9 or 10 sliced suits of armor or 4 or 5 crates of sliced weapons in a wearhouse than it would be to track down a Smuggler every time you wanted to sell a sliced piece.
I'm not saying you're wrong. But, we've seen from launch that the community is playing this game in a different way than what the developers envisioned. Whether it's the way camps were envisioned and how they were actually used, or how crafters are exceeding what the developers thought were possible. The game evolved...playstyles made the game evolve and also evolved with it.
For every creative problem you can come up with, there will be a player who will come up with an equally creative solution...
DavidHarper
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:44 am
#6
*Sigh*
Why do PvPers insist on on making others PvP. Players do not mind consequences, they just do not want to fight other players.
I do not mind bounties being placed on Smugglers but others do so stop trying to force it on them.
P__Day
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:47 am
#7
Make the BH system a valunteer thing, but have tons of Cor sec, stormtroopers and so spawn and attack the smuggler problem solved
yimaz
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:08 am
#8
Im not all that intoPVP but im very into content and that is what a bounty system will bring, in what ever form the dev's set up up in. This will also separate the smugglers from the dablers. Can't take the heat dont be a smuggler. Making things harder to do is the whole point. It is illegal and BH's ant all that plus we do have a combat balance on the way.
gpthree
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:12 am
#9
I'm sure there are alot of Smugglers that have been Master since the first few months of the game that do not want a PvP system imposed on them. That makes them a dabbler? You can have content that doesnt involve PvP.
Not everyone wants to be a Combat Smuggler.
Not everyone wants to be a Combat Smuggler.
Message Edited by gpthree on 06-16-2004 12:16 PM
DrevenStrobe
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:18 am
#10
yimaz wrote:
Im not all that intoPVP but im very into content and that is what a bounty system will bring, in what ever form the dev's set up up in. This will also separate the smugglers from the dablers. Can't take the heat dont be a smuggler. Making things harder to do is the whole point. It is illegal and BH's ant all that plus we do have a combat balance on the way.
/agree Yimaz
When you become a Smuggler, you should recieve a confirmation box stating that you accept all risks and consequences associated with the profession...including the PvP aspects. It's time that this game grew out of the "But I don't wanna....*whine*..." stage and grew some balls.
Hell...that's one reason I enjoy playing Lineage, is because I can shoot annoying whiny people whenever I want without having to politely ask "Hey, would it be ok if I shoot you?" If I want to shoot somebody, I don't want to be polite about it...I just want them to die...which will backfire occasionally...
Seriously though...if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Go find you a nice quiet crafting profession to keep you out of the line of fire or something...
Bzzzz
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:48 am
#11
Frans_Solo wrote:
1. No merchant can sell sliced goods or spices on his vendor. All illegal product can only be "moved" or sold by the individual. (now you've implemented actual smuggling into the game with this one change)
Soooooo, how do you propose actually selling Spice? You *like* the idea of standing around starports spamming? That's more Star-Warsy for you? I like the principle, but I don't see an alternative execution (short of implementing other major changes like "black-market" bazaars, etc.). Relying on tells-hell for business would get very old, very fast.
-Zz
JediArashi
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:49 am
#12
I myself don't like PvP, but I would have no problem accepting the risk to do some serious RP. I don't think it should be forced upon them though, if it's kept to certain activities, that's cool...but idon't think that anyone who chooses Smuggler as a profession has t oautomatically be assumed to want to participate in PvP.
If I want to play my smuggling role against the existing NPC factions without player interference I should be allowed to do that. As long as the boundaries are clearly defined, it should work alright I think.
If you relate it to the GCW, one could say that joining a faction is consent to PvP...but if that was the case then there wouldn't be a covert/overt system. I know that as a rebel, I run the risk during a contraband scan to get turned overt and potentially have some Imp PC's come after me. That's a clearly defined border. It is a far cry from actively being overt everytimeI want to board a shuttle, or place something on a vender, etc. basic game functions. It's these basic functions of our profession (like simple slicing) that shouldn't force someone into PvP on the spot. It's always best to give players the option, and be sure they know certain actions will have consequences they may not like. There has to be a better way then a TEF system.
The most obvious problem to me in the TEF system in regards to slicing is simplt having an overt come to you for slicing, as soon as you do it...boom they kill you cause you were TEF'd. If it's not the person wanting the slice doing it, it's be just as easy for me and some friends get together, have another friend remain covert and initiate the slice, then jump around the corner and there's another dead smuggler.
It's that type of circumstance that they want to avoid, which is why I doubt the TEF system would work in this case. Find me a better way to handle it, and I will support it fully...and even enjoy playing within it, but the is not that way.
-Arashi
Bloodfin
Jandel-Har
Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:50 am
#13
Tef's for slicing could be a good thing.For one it would get slicing off of main street,and it would be harder for the everyday Joe to get his stuff sliced. Now for player bounties,It could be fun,I mean maybe you could bribe the BH into not killing you. I don't PvP now because I would last about one second,but after the combat balance who knows. PvP shouldn't be manditary for smugglers as it kinda is for jedi,I mean jedi are supposed to be bad @ss,smugglers arent.
Message Edited by Jandel-Har on 06-16-2004 10:50 AM
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