Smuggler Archive

Right now, though damage slices on weapons claim to be anywhere from 10-31%, the actual numerical increase on the stats of frog-made guns is only about 6-7%. Every single time.

I made a few weapons to see if they sliced differently than frog weapons. They did, but they still weren't seeing the same increase it was saying they were getting.

Oh yeah, and speed slices say they're giving a 5% bonus on frog guns, but they don't. They're 2.5%, I think. Meanwhile, the speed slices on my crafted D18s that said 5% were actually 6%.

Message Edited by TomoRainer on 04-17-2005 05:33 PM

Template TKM/ Master Pistol/ Smuggler 4030

Had a few duels with garlux (sp?) and he had carbines in his template,I wore no armor and he wore assault I think. We dueled a few times and each and every time if was a close battle. We learned something each time, like using prone to reduce hits. Stop shot/concussion to control range. He had KD shots, I had disarm shot. It was a very fluid battle constanly using different attack to try and get the upper hand. He even tried last ditch one battle that would have gave him the victory IF he would have hit me

I'm finding TK to be almost useless for attack unless it's combined with other melee professions. There are just not enough different attacks (combo, melee hit, melee strike, lunge, armor break, leg sweep, dizzy) and those are all basic attacks except combo. Only useful thing is the innate armor and defense mods. I have a 235 ranged with UA and 200 with pistol. Innate currently gives 48% kinetic/87% energy....bugged it because it should be closer to battle armor, not recon.

My Template is M Smuggler/TKM/4004 Pistol. I fight unbuffed, unarmored(naturally), with Either a Renegade or the Razor knucks, depending. Overall, it's fantastic-- Unlike Live, where you pretty much take the triple-template so you're viable and the Smuggler element is almost an afterthought, here It feels more Like Smuggler is my primary and the others are just enhancing abilities that are already there(though TKM feels a little more "necessary", as I dislike armor on principle and it's the only way to fight unarmored, really).

I've done well, however, fighting all manner of opponents, including other smugglers.

I only have two issues with Smuggler, as it stands... though the first one will become MUCH more important if the community gets some relief from being rooted.

1. BROKEN SPECIALS. This is the big one. Honestly, our role as Masters of Crowd Control currently hinges on two specials, one of which is STILL broken but usable, the other one seems to be working fine. Specifically, Concussion shot(which is supposed to mezz, and wear of at more damage, but is just a root, currently), and restraining shot, which appears to be a working snare just as advertised. Otherwise, most of our specials seem to be broken. Here's my experience with them, in no particular order:

CONCUSSION SHOT: As stated, it's supposed to Root and mezz, and release these effects if the target is damaged. It currently simply roots, and doesn't release until the timer's up, making it basically a more potent Stopping Shot. This is pretty awesome for PvE, but PvP is showing it too powerful. If the community gets some sort of Root recovery, I'd like to see this fixed to work as described, otherwise, it'll become pretty pointless to use outside of PvE. If it's not fixed, please update the description, at least. I could live with it as it stands, even with a root recovery ability. Bottom line: Broken, but useful and useable.

RESTRAINING SHOT: Working fine, as far as I can tell, does exactly what it says as being a snare, and useful for kiting dangerous things. One of my first choices when considering CC options. Often used when the root wears off, since one can rarely chain-root.

PANIC SHOT: Broken, and not worth the time it takes to press the button. Currently gives a -15(I think) Speed penalty, when it's supposed to prevent ability use for a period of time. Of questionable use in PvE, absolutely useless in PvP. A master level player has enough speed that they don't even notice a 15 penalty, and neither will you. PvE mobs at least hit a little slower, but it's not really all that noticable on them, either. Please fix this one. It should be a HUGE portion of our CC strategy, and it isn't.

OVERWHELMING SHOT: I honestly can't tell if this one's working or not, and I question its usefulness in any case. I've never had trouble laying a state on player or mob uing TK skills, so I just can't see why I'd need to reduce a target's resistance to them. Might be working or not, regardless, I'm not seeing much use for this one-- thought it may be useful in groups against high-end content. I haven't spent enough time with such to find out. Perhaps if it made Recovery have a 50% chance of failure for a period of time, it would be more useful.

RECKLESS SHOT: Another one that just isn't worth the time to click, usually. The damage is too low to really make it worth taking the steep defense penalty. the exception is when the target is rooted and not-ranged, as they can't hit you. Wherein it becomes a mildly acceptable damage shot. But this is a little lame, and I think it would benefit from a damage boost to make it more of a viable tradeoff.

LAST DITCH: Now we're talking. This one's PERFECT. Does what it says, and it's easily my favorite special to have. Never use it unless I'm in a real tight spot, and it saves my bacon in more than a few of those. Love, pure and simple-- this is what Last Ditch always needed to be. By far my favorite special, from a "working as intended" viewpoint, and so definitive to the smuggler mythos(from a "most dangerous when cornered" perspective). I can't tell you how much everyone I talk to loves it.

LOW BLOW: It just never seems to actually score a KD, despite it stating that it's almost guaranteed to put somthing down if it hits. I'm not as familiar with it in PvP(since I'd rather swap to TK for the Dizzy/KD), but in PvE, KDs seem borked. Mobs, if they KD at all, are only down for a split-second before they're up and hitting you again. This isn't just LB, but any KD, so I'm not sure what's up. But as a result, i really don't use this much, whereas in Live, I wouldn't think of leading with anything BUT a KD if I have one, because it gives me a few seconds of room beofre I'm getting hit again. And with Panic Shot working as above, the classic LB/PS combination is *completely* pointless, and that was always quite a lot of the special's power and charm.

FEIGN DEATH: A lot's been said about this one, which comes down to "BROKEN", so I haven't even bothered to use it, since nothing's popped up in the patch notes about it and I have no reason to believe it's worth even attempting. With the new regen rates, we can't exactly use it to solo high-end content(Bleed-and-feign is gone, RIP) so why not just put it back to what it started out with and leave it at that? Regardless, let's have a working FD.

Most of this has been said before, but as long as we're pulling out a Smuggler focus, it's worth going over what i thnk about them, since they're central to my thoughts on Smuggler as a whole. Currently, we depend on Concussion shot for our combat role(CC). ONE special. A broken one. This needs addressing. In PvP/general combat, we can rely on TWO specials that come from our profession, one of which is, as the name suggests, a last-ditch, desperate manuvuer. If I have to use it, the fight's basically over anyway and I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it's enough to save my posterior. Please fix us soon. We're coping, but we're gonna need the love soon.

2. SLICING: It just plain needs to be reworked to fit the new system. It needed to be reworked before anyway, so.. nuff said there.

Those are my smuggler concerns. As long as I'm working in a focus thread that I assume Wes will get to the Devs, I'll add one thing:

The level system. I've changed my mind about it, it has SERIOUS endgame problems. Level differences mean that the only viable approach for any of the high-end mobs I've fought(especially krayts!) is to never enter their attack range(because you can't survive their attacks, no matter what your template is or what your wearing/buffed by/etc.), which means that CC becomes uber. I'm sure that the goal of CU is NOT to require that *every* group at a high level rely on two specific specials-- Concussion Shot and Stopping Shot, so the apparent situation where damage mods mean that the only way to deal with high-level mobs is those rooting specials is a big, big problem. i suspect if the damage mods just Dissappear at level 80 or so, or group level calculations are modified, this would be a non-issue, but we don't ahve that. We have a situation where all combat roles save ranged CC and ranged damage are useless above a certain level. Something needs to be done, unless I and everyone I've talked to about high-end content are totally missing soemthing.

Anyway, there's my (mostly) Smuggler-focused feedback from my time on Test.

---

CapnKate wrote:
My Template is M Smuggler/TKM/4004 Pistol. I fight unbuffed, unarmored(naturally), with Either a Renegade or the Razor knucks, depending. Overall, it's fantastic-- Unlike Live, where you pretty much take the triple-template so you're viable and the Smuggler element is almost an afterthought, here It feels more Like Smuggler is my primary and the others are just enhancing abilities that are already there(though TKM feels a little more "necessary", as I dislike armor on principle and it's the only way to fight unarmored, really).

I've done well, however, fighting all manner of opponents, including other smugglers.

I only have two issues with Smuggler, as it stands... though the first one will become MUCH more important if the community gets some relief from being rooted.

1. BROKEN SPECIALS. This is the big one. Honestly, our role as Masters of Crowd Control currently hinges on two specials, one of which is STILL broken but usable, the other one seems to be working fine. Specifically, Concussion shot(which is supposed to mezz, and wear of at more damage, but is just a root, currently), and restraining shot, which appears to be a working snare just as advertised. Otherwise, most of our specials seem to be broken. Here's my experience with them, in no particular order:

CONCUSSION SHOT: As stated, it's supposed to Root and mezz, and release these effects if the target is damaged. It currently simply roots, and doesn't release until the timer's up, making it basically a more potent Stopping Shot. This is pretty awesome for PvE, but PvP is showing it too powerful. If the community gets some sort of Root recovery, I'd like to see this fixed to work as described, otherwise, it'll become pretty pointless to use outside of PvE. If it's not fixed, please update the description, at least. I could live with it as it stands, even with a root recovery ability. Bottom line: Broken, but useful and useable.

RESTRAINING SHOT: Working fine, as far as I can tell, does exactly what it says as being a snare, and useful for kiting dangerous things. One of my first choices when considering CC options. Often used when the root wears off, since one can rarely chain-root.

PANIC SHOT: Broken, and not worth the time it takes to press the button. Currently gives a -15(I think) Speed penalty, when it's supposed to prevent ability use for a period of time. Of questionable use in PvE, absolutely useless in PvP. A master level player has enough speed that they don't even notice a 15 penalty, and neither will you. PvE mobs at least hit a little slower, but it's not really all that noticable on them, either. Please fix this one. It should be a HUGE portion of our CC strategy, and it isn't.

OVERWHELMING SHOT: I honestly can't tell if this one's working or not, and I question its usefulness in any case. I've never had trouble laying a state on player or mob uing TK skills, so I just can't see why I'd need to reduce a target's resistance to them. Might be working or not, regardless, I'm not seeing much use for this one-- thought it may be useful in groups against high-end content. I haven't spent enough time with such to find out. Perhaps if it made Recovery have a 50% chance of failure for a period of time, it would be more useful.

RECKLESS SHOT: Another one that just isn't worth the time to click, usually. The damage is too low to really make it worth taking the steep defense penalty. the exception is when the target is rooted and not-ranged, as they can't hit you. Wherein it becomes a mildly acceptable damage shot. But this is a little lame, and I think it would benefit from a damage boost to make it more of a viable tradeoff.

LAST DITCH: Now we're talking. This one's PERFECT. Does what it says, and it's easily my favorite special to have. Never use it unless I'm in a real tight spot, and it saves my bacon in more than a few of those. Love, pure and simple-- this is what Last Ditch always needed to be. By far my favorite special, from a "working as intended" viewpoint, and so definitive to the smuggler mythos(from a "most dangerous when cornered" perspective). I can't tell you how much everyone I talk to loves it.

LOW BLOW: It just never seems to actually score a KD, despite it stating that it's almost guaranteed to put somthing down if it hits. I'm not as familiar with it in PvP(since I'd rather swap to TK for the Dizzy/KD), but in PvE, KDs seem borked. Mobs, if they KD at all, are only down for a split-second before they're up and hitting you again. This isn't just LB, but any KD, so I'm not sure what's up. But as a result, i really don't use this much, whereas in Live, I wouldn't think of leading with anything BUT a KD if I have one, because it gives me a few seconds of room beofre I'm getting hit again. And with Panic Shot working as above, the classic LB/PS combination is *completely* pointless, and that was always quite a lot of the special's power and charm.

FEIGN DEATH: A lot's been said about this one, which comes down to "BROKEN", so I haven't even bothered to use it, since nothing's popped up in the patch notes about it and I have no reason to believe it's worth even attempting. With the new regen rates, we can't exactly use it to solo high-end content(Bleed-and-feign is gone, RIP) so why not just put it back to what it started out with and leave it at that? Regardless, let's have a working FD.

Most of this has been said before, but as long as we're pulling out a Smuggler focus, it's worth going over what i thnk about them, since they're central to my thoughts on Smuggler as a whole. Currently, we depend on Concussion shot for our combat role(CC). ONE special. A broken one. This needs addressing. In PvP/general combat, we can rely on TWO specials that come from our profession, one of which is, as the name suggests, a last-ditch, desperate manuvuer. If I have to use it, the fight's basically over anyway and I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it's enough to save my posterior. Please fix us soon. We're coping, but we're gonna need the love soon.

2. SLICING: It just plain needs to be reworked to fit the new system. It needed to be reworked before anyway, so.. nuff said there.

Those are my smuggler concerns. As long as I'm working in a focus thread that I assume Wes will get to the Devs, I'll add one thing:

The level system. I've changed my mind about it, it has SERIOUS endgame problems. Level differences mean that the only viable approach for any of the high-end mobs I've fought(especially krayts!) is to never enter their attack range(because you can't survive their attacks, no matter what your template is or what your wearing/buffed by/etc.), which means that CC becomes uber. I'm sure that the goal of CU is NOT to require that *every* group at a high level rely on two specific specials-- Concussion Shot and Stopping Shot, so the apparent situation where damage mods mean that the only way to deal with high-level mobs is those rooting specials is a big, big problem. i suspect if the damage mods just Dissappear at level 80 or so, or group level calculations are modified, this would be a non-issue, but we don't ahve that. We have a situation where all combat roles save ranged CC and ranged damage are useless above a certain level. Something needs to be done, unless I and everyone I've talked to about high-end content are totally missing soemthing.

Anyway, there's my (mostly) Smuggler-focused feedback from my time on Test.

---

Wow, very nice information. All I managed to gather was that Overwhelming Shot never takes place and that Low Blow doesn't KD.

I wonder how much one can reduce an enemies damage output with all of the smuggler and pistoleer specials... hmmmmmm: Intimidate, stun, disarming shot, Low Blow, panic shot, etc....

• Concussion Shot (Novice Smuggler)

What the description says: "This ranged ability dazes an opponent completely stopping their ability to move or attack for a short period of time. Any damage done to the target during that time will bring them back to their senses and allow them to attack again."

What it really does: It roots the target to the spot so he can't move at all, lasting 15 seconds. However he can still attack and is unaffected in any other way. Not only does this contradict the description, it's also the exact same effect as Pistoleers stopping shot. Currently this ability seem much too powerful as you can basically solo anything that doesn't shoot back by just Rooting & Running (TM).

I would rather see that it did work as true mezz attack just as the description implies.

• Panic Shot (Underworld I)

What the description says: "This ranged attack ability fires wildly at the target preventing them from attack for a short period of time."

What it really does: This gives the target a debuff penalising him with -10.00 attack speed for about 10 seconds. This is, although similar to the description, not entirely correct. Also it's redundant considering Low Blow is essentially the same thing only better (and with a KD if it gets fixed). Although they seem to stack, isn't it a little boring to have abilities that have the same effect?

• Improved Panic Shot (Underworld III)

What the description says: "This enhancement to the Panic Shot ability increases the duration their attacks are delayed."

What it really does: -15.00 attack speed debuff for 25 seconds. A little better but still inferior to Low Blow.

• Last Ditch (Underworld IV)

What the description says: "his ranged attack ability is used as a last resort in battle using all of your remaining ability points and doing a scaled amount of damage depending on how close to death you are." (Missing a T)

What it really does: Now really works like it should. The less health you got left the more damage it does. I've been able to get as high as 4700 damage when testing PvE with a Renegade pistol (and others have got even higher damage). PvP testing are underway. After the patch 0.120155 something seems to have gone bust, because now when using Last Ditch you sometimes incapp yourself. And to make things worse it seems you incapp yourself before you actually attack, so even though you see your attack hitting your opponent and can see the numbers both in combat spam and as floaters no damage is really done.

• Overwhelming Shot (Slicing II)

What the description says: "This ranged attack causes a reduction in the target's ability to resist state effects."

What it really does: Apperantly nothing. No attack animation, nothing in combat spam and no visible effect on the target.

• Improved Overwhelming Shot (Slicing IV)

What the description says: "This enhancement to the Overwhelming Shot ability is much more powerful and will reduce more state resists."

What it really does: Same as regular Overwhelming Shot. Seems entirely broken.

• Feign Death (Dirty Fighting I)

What the description says: "This command allows the smuggler to pretend he has been incapacitated. Enemies just might leave the smuggler alone..."

What it really does: Yay! They've fixed Feign Death. It's the same as always in PvE and mobs still aggro you when you get up. It has changed in PvP though and while feigned you can not be attacked.

• Low Blow (Dirty Fighting III)

What the description says: "This ranged attack ability causes a very painul attack that isn't very damaging but is almost guaranteed to cause your opponent to fall down and will slow down their attacks for a period of time."

What it really does: Ahh... every smugglers favourite attack. It gives the target a -40.00 attack speed debuff for 15 seconds. I've used it a lot and never got a knockdown once so that part seems broken at the moment. If they just fix the KD we're in business.

• Reckless Shot (Delinquency I)

What the description says: "Used as a last resort this ability the attack unleashes a large barrage of shots at the target. This attack will place you in a very vulnerable position and causes a defensive penalty to the attacker." (At least one word too much in there)

What it really does: This attack gives the user a -50.00 defense penalty for 5 seconds and does not seem to affect the target in any other way than regular damage (no debuff). The idea behind the attack is most likely to make it a "Last Ditch light" but at the moment it only generates slightly more damage than, for example, Quickdraw that we get at Pistols IV, has lower cooldown and gives no defensive penalties to the user. Basically, what needs to be done is increase the damage output a good deal.

• Restraining Shot (Delinquency II)

What the description says: "This ranged attack ability reduces the targets movement speed."

What it really does: When used you see the +Snared+ text on the target and there is a particle effect. But I haven't noticed any real decrease in speed, if there is it's very minor. Since the buff/debuff icons are broken on TC at the moment I haven't been able to get any information that way. As far as I can tell it's broken, but more testing is required to see if there actually is a very small decrease in speed.

• Improved Reckless Shot (Delinquency III)

What the description says: "This enchancement to the Reckless Shot ability has an improved movement rduction." (missing an e)

What it really does: The same as Reckless Shot with a slightly higher damage modifer. Still nothing I'd ever use.

• Improved Restraining Shot (Delinquency IV)

What the description says: "This enhancement to the Reckless Shot ability has an improved movement rduction." (Yes, this is what i it says. Obviously someone swapped the texts)

What it really does: This, as opposed to basic Restraining Shot, actually works and slows down your target by approximately 30% for 20 seconds.

• Slicing

It's working, but yields a little different results. The following report is from TomoRainer. Thanks Tomo!

"Okay, when it comes to slicing, there's some good news and some bad news. The good news is, we can slice now! Hurray! The bad news is.. it's craaaaazy! There had better be an easily digested formula behind these results, otherwise the slicing sticky is going to be a tome of War and Peacean proportions. Anyway, here's some raw numbers for you all from a master smuggler: 10 CDEF pistols: 22% damage, 5% speed, 5% speed, 5% speed, 5% speed, 5% speed, 22% damage, 5% speed, 5% speed, 22% damage 10 Scout blasters: 12% damage, 5% speed, 5% speed, 5% speed, 5% speed, 5% speed, 12% damage, 5% speed, 5% speed, 5% speed 10 D18s: 5% speed, 10% damage, 10% damage, 10% damage, 5% speed, 5% speed, 10% damage, 10% damage, 5% speed, 5% speed All right, I think it's time for me to follow my computer's lead and crash, but the conclusions so far are pretty clear: we have no slicing range anymore, just a single hard number that is determined either by the type of or the stats on the weapon. I'm guessing that speed isn't going to be 5% for all weapons; it's just that every pistol has a speed of 2 right now, so all their results being 5% is probably just a factor of them all working off an identical stat. This supports the theory that the % is based entirely on the weapon's stats and not type. Needs much more testing, though. Also, in 30 slices, I saw 10 damage and 20 speed. The sample size here is way too small to draw any concrete conclusions, but it's possible it's not a 50/50 chance anymore as to what stat gets altered. Keep an eye on that. Obviously a lot more work needs to be done on different types of ranged and melee weapons, but I hope this'll provide a start for the rest of the team and a heads-up to anyone who's not on TC."

Worth mentioning: that an ability doesn't work as it says in the description isn't necessarily a bug as the descriptions might very well be out of date.

That's what we've been able to test so far. I will keep updating this as we get more information.

Message Edited by snorbarnet on 04-19-2005 02:44 AM