CUEmu - Thread Posts

Hotrodg

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:24 pm

First off, let me start by saying much of this came from other posts. I simply looked through a lot of it, and kind of compilied and tweaked it.

It is NOT my intention to say "This is the way it should be", but simply "Here is an idea, take a look and discuss viability, look for flaws, and talk about ways to enhance/improve it".

Also this concerns armor and weapons only at the moment, though I think we all agree we would like to be able to slice other items/containers/terminals etc..

The basis for this, is from what I gather, the community feels slicing is too simple, too random, and does not permit any smuggler to excel in this portion of the profession as most others can. A popular idea is to simply make tool quality matter, but imo, this would not really fix the problem. If it was simply a matter of tool quality, we end up with a different version of the same problem we have today. All smugglers of a given level would slice the same. Artisans, Weaponsmiths, and Armorsmiths would actually be the only ones that benefit. My thinking is then everyone would seek out only the best equipment, therefore, prices for AUKs/WUKs, and resources go up, But everyone still ends up the same (in most cases anyway).

The system:

The first part is implementation of a slicing window along the lines of the Image Design window. This is to eliminate the headaches, and potential grief/fraud from dishonest players that goes along with having to trade the items to the smuggler. (Admittedly, this is problematic for smugglers that slice in bulk, I welcome thoughts around that)

I will use a weapon for the example.

Now once the item is in the window, the smuggler would see the various attributes of the weapon. Examples could be Min damage, Max Damage, Weapon Speed, H cost, A cost, M cost, and the 3 range mods.

Now the smuggler has a "Slicing" skill mod based on rank in the smuggler trees. Just for illustration purposes lets say that you gain +20 at Novice and each of the 4 boxes in the slicing tree. Master gains an additional +10. For now, think of them as "Slicing points".

Each of the 9 attributes listed would have a slider next to it, all start at 0 and can be moved to a max of 3,to determine the amount of effort you would like to expend trying to improve it. Lets call them "Slice Expierimentation Points". You must "buy" these using your "slicing points", each box progressively costing more than the last.

For eample to move the slider from 0 to 1 would cost 10 points, from 1 to 2 would cost an additional 15 points, and from 2 to 3 would cost an additional 25 points. (So to max out a particular attribute with 3 expierimentation points, you would spend 50 slicing points)

Now how is the improvement calculated? you might ask. This part is simple, but may seem a little tricky.

The % increase is based on the number of expierimentation points spent on that attribute. A level 1 box has a range of 10-15%, selecting a level 2 box adds and additional 5-10%, and a level 3 box another 5-10%.

Basically, after the smuggler spends his/her expierimentation points where they want, the game will run a quick check to calculate the value. First it will check each atrribute's level of expierimentation where if level 1 selected = true then A = 10-15 (randomly generated), and if level selected = false then A = 0. If level 2 selected = true then B = 5-10 (random), and if level 2 selected = false then B= 0. If level 3 selected = true then C = 5-10 (random), and if level 3 selected = false then C = 0.

This would populate a formula thatcould look something like this: Weapon base + (Weapon base * ((A+B+C)/100)) = sliced value for attribute.

Now that the math is out of the way, lets look at what that means.

Lets assume that slicing 2 is still required to slice terminals. A smuggler with slicing 2 would have 60 slicing points available. That smuggler could improve 1 of the 9 attributes 20-35% and 1 other attribute 10-15%, OR up to 6 attributes 10-15%, OR 2 attributes 15-25%.

A smuggler with slicing 4 has more options ranging from a 20-35% improvement on 2 seperate attributes to a 10-15% improvement across all 9.

Under this system, I think that smugglers of all levels would have a place in the market, depending on the needs of the customer, it will remove the "awww..i am already capped on speed, I needed damage" while keeping some of the randomness that represents the "iffy" nature of modifying the weapon.

I think, this allows for a more dynamic slice, where the slicer and the customer have some say in how the weapon is improved. I think this is balanced by the fact that each attribute that is modified will have it's % increase calculated separately.

i.e. Instead of saying "I pick damage" and having the min and max damage raised by X%. The customer can say I want the damage increased, and have the minimum damage increased by X% and the maximum increased Y%. (Which may, but will not likely be the same).

Well that is the bare bones of it. Like it? Dislike it? Questions? Comments? Modifications? Snide remarks?

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YousTeForse

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:49 pm

#2

I love that idea.... possibly the best slicing idea I've ever read.... hopefully the devs will see it

Tallis Bannon "Master Smuggler"- Ahazi

Saibak

Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:15 am

#3

An excellent approach overall. I'd certainly like to see something like this implemented.

Hotrodg wrote:

The first part is implementation of a slicing window along the lines of the Image Design window. This is to eliminate the headaches, and potential grief/fraud from dishonest players that goes along with having to trade the items to the smuggler. (Admittedly, this is problematic for smugglers that slice in bulk, I welcome thoughts around that)

A split-window for bulk orders would do fine. Basically you'd have a single, ID style window. The top section, which would be about 1/5th of the total window space, would be where the client would place the items they want sliced. The Smuggler would then select which items to be sliced from that window, and use the bottom section (slicing apparatus) to do the job.

To make selection easier, the Smuggler can CTRL-Click to select multiple items of the same type (weapon, armor, etc), which would apply the slicing revisions for one item to all. There could also be selection buttons beneath the item window to further facilitate this: Select Type (selects all items of the same type as the current selected item) and Select Model (selects all items of the same model, i.e. all DX2s or all Composite Chests, etc). Select Material could also be added just for armor slices, so if a Client wants a set of Ubese and a set of Composite sliced (Ubese for Encumberance, Composite for Base Effectiveness), it will be easy for the Smuggler to select each set.

If it's a particularly big order and the Client ends up not wanting to pay for some of the items, the Smuggler can cancel the slices on individual items.

Karnn Saibat
Master Smuggler of Bria (Retired)
"The BoB demonstrated that the community can become incredibly organized and dedicated to the notion of an actual war between the factions. Unfortunately the BoB also demonstrated that such activities can and will cause the servers to spontaneously combust." - Me

Saibak

Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:18 am

#4

Saibak wrote:

If it's a particularly big order and the Client ends up not wanting to pay for some of the items, the Smuggler can cancel the slices on individual items.

Ignore that last part. I went on a whole diatribe on Grief-Prevention and trying to make the system a bit more robust, but I ended up making more problems and deleted it. Just forgot to snag the last paragraph.

Karnn Saibat
Master Smuggler of Bria (Retired)
"The BoB demonstrated that the community can become incredibly organized and dedicated to the notion of an actual war between the factions. Unfortunately the BoB also demonstrated that such activities can and will cause the servers to spontaneously combust." - Me

Smuggler_Caylin

Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:27 am

#5

Hotrodg wrote:

Well that is the bare bones of it. Like it? Dislike it? Questions? Comments? Modifications? Snide remarks?

I personally like it, Dreven came up with an extremely similar idea that many of us have been working towards. We keep forgetting to put in the ID window thing as a formal part of the proposal.

I have no objections at all, this is the general direction I'd love to see slicing move towards.

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria

One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!

:The Ghost with the Most:

Capt_Baobab

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:37 am

#6

/cheer
that sound like a great way to go about it... and wouldn't be too hard, would it? all it seems to be is an extension of the crafting experimentaion...

R.I.P. Chenlambec 6-23-04 to 8.9.05. Rogue Wookie,Smuggler, and Go To Wookie for Radical Limb Removal.
"I was born a smuggler, and I died a smuggler, and only the spicefiends mourned my passing."
The Inimitable Capt. Baobab

Dyraak_Sinh

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:21 am

#7

Brilliant proposal.

-------------------------
Drayth Ffreul

Buddhist

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:09 am

#8

very nice idea, as a customer i would love to see this slice proposal implemented.



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MisterWizard

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:34 am

#9

Hire this man as a designer.

An incredible proposal. It takes elements from different parts of the game and makes slicing a real involved action instead of a silly "mini-game."

This proposal adds many element to slicing:

Allows customized slicing on different aspects of the object.

Allows some selectivity, but tradeoffs to excessive focus.

IF reslicing is allowed, which I feel should be, it gives non-masters a potential market that they lack now.

I can see a wonderful interface... Weapons sliced by condition, minimum damage, maximum damage, speed, HAM costs, range, range mods... Armor sliced by condition, encumbrance, effectiveness, and resistances... Terminals sliced by payout and mission difficulty... Vehicles sliced by condition, speed, cornering, acceleration... I must stop dreaming!

Side thought: A new factor should be added to weapons -- a "condition burn" factor. Weapons already decay based on some internal system; why not have some weapons decay faster than others? It adds another dimension to just "condition" and would wrap nicely with this proposed slicing revamp -- allow slicing overall condition or condition burn ...

I hope we're not all dreaming... Hotrodg's proposal really is exceptional!!!

Alaric (Wanderhome)
Alrik (Flurry)

AFTER SWG, play some online baseball at http://www.csfbl.com.

Hotrodg

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:16 am

#10

Well I am happy to see folks think the system has merit. I would like to point out once again that I did not really "create" this, so much as combine previous ideas and sort of evolved them. For the folks that see aspects of thier proposals in there, I will sit down and dig through old posts and get all the names added. Dreven, Caylin, Ousely, and Ipsecki come immediately to mind.

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Smuggler_Caylin

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:20 am

#11

Not to take anything away from this, but I think it's mostly stuff Dreven and myself have worked on. Dreven had the core stuff, the slicing experimentation thing, and I brought up the ID window as soon as it was placed in game. Interactive slicing process with the customer and all that.

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria

One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!

:The Ghost with the Most:

Hotrodg

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:39 am

#12

Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

Not to take anything away from this, but I think it's mostly stuff Dreven and myself have worked on. Dreven had the core stuff, the slicing experimentation thing, and I brought up the ID window as soon as it was placed in game. Interactive slicing process with the customer and all that.

Exactly my point, just going off my memory (which is admittedly suspect) the evolution went something like this:

The smuggler slicing expierimentation skill, I have no idea who orginally posted, it goes as far back as the game as far as I know. Orginally this was largely centered around tool quality and the many debates it spawned. Way back in the fall when promised our first revamp, Ipsecki was the first I remember putting forth the idea of slicing for things other than speed and damage. This was in a discussion that was centered around the personal weapon of a smuggler as an alternative to a new weapon cert that was smuggler specific. Ousely expanded on that idea and came up with the first version I saw of the bars for each attribute and based it off the crafting expierimentation system. Many variations where thrown around after that which resulted in Dreven's system he posted which was the foundation for this one. As I said before this is not a new idea, simply an evolution of others. And yes Caylin, you were the first I remember coming up with the window idea based on the image design one.

My apologies if you feel that you are not being given your due credit, but I was careful to say that what i was posting was a compiled and tweaked version of existing ideas. I pointed that out before one word of the system was typed.

Message Edited by Hotrodg on 07-15-2004 10:42 AM

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Smuggler_Caylin

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:11 am

#13

Sorry, yes I meant to give a point of reference for a continuation of ideas I thought were really good.

I didn't mean to sound like some pissant crying about what we thought up first, and I am sorry about that. I was out of line.

/begs forgiveness.

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria

One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!

:The Ghost with the Most:

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Thread: An idea for a more dynamic slicing system