Smuggler Archive
Thread: NickHeel's Personal Guide to Handling Developers
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NickHeel
Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:40 pm
#1
After the recent brush fire in the other thread, I've decided to post my take on this since it's been working for me in the past couple months pretty effectively. I've had out of the blue, conversations with SWG-Goliath, Thunderheart, and most recently, Tiggs.
I hope Tiggs doesn't mind but I'm going to quote her from a recent PM where she said, "I knew posting would stir the hornets nest but I still have hopes one day they take what I say at face value =)" Iwas irked by this at first but afterseeing what did happen,I only felt ashamed. So,maybe by sharing what's been working for me, as an ordinary everyday poster, we can change that perception and come outfor the better on the Devs' side and, most importantly 
, our side.
, our side.Here are your steps in order of importance and functionality:
1.) Know your issue. Ranting and raving and whining ain't gonna get it done. You have to have a specific issue you need to raise and challenge them on. You should know this issue in detail and preferably be able to site quotes and factual information about said issue. It's good to do your research on the topic as well, that way you're not asking for redundant information.
2.) Don't be a jerk. You'll attract more bees with honey as my grandpa said. You may hold no respect for the Devs or hate them with a passion, but if you express this to them, they'll just ignore you. It's policy. No matter what they've done or will do, they won't work withus/you with the bad attitude going on. Sometimes you have to bite your lip and do what you have to for the better good. You don't have to suck up, you don't have to brown nose, or even be nice. You just have to not ignite the flames and just stay professional. It sucks but you have to do it...the Devs won't go for any less no matter what.
3.) Be realistic. If you post in abug thread about an issue with durni's on Naboo about your disgruntlement with the low power of your last Slice, don't count on a response and, in fact, expect to be moderated. PM a community representitive like Tiggs or Callandryll using the methods above or if they post on a topic related to your issue, you can jump in with a quick detailed post asking your question. Try toword the questionwhere it would receive a short precise answer that you were looking for. And, honestly, don't expect to receive an answer. If you do and you don't get it, you'll feel slighted or ignored. They will see your post and the better it looks and easier it is to respond to, the more likely you'll get an answer. You just have to get lucky sometimes.
4.) Be short and to the point. If you write the Devs a PM or post a 10,000 word essay, they probably aren't going to take the time to read it and or reply. It's going to be hard to read all of it, analyze it, and respond with what they hope is the answer you're looking for. Try and keep your issue to5normalsentences with a clearly defined point that you need answered.
5.) Heed the words of Dr. Spock. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few. If you feel that you can't keep from being ugly or taking a shot, please don't post. Log on to the game, grab a pizza, troll another thread. But if a usefull thread is going with good conversations and dialog, why set it off? How many threads have you seen where a Dev was posting in it and providing good information when someone or some people had to snap at a Dev and be a fire bug? Almost always, it spreads, rapidly, and the Devs scoot off to safety. If you aren't going to help a discussion, leave it be for the good of your fellow scoundrels or players.
I would say for our community, we need to try a little bit more of #2. Tiggs thinks or knows that by sending a red name into our forum that the place is going to explode and most likey, catch fire. And you know they aren't going to drag theirselves through the muck justto get our advise or input on something. They're not asking us to bow down and praise them for their hard work when/if they post in here, only that we don't try roasting them (as much as they might deserve it).
Think about GreenMarine. He came in here and just worked with us. He didn't start tossing flames back and forth. He knew the profession, made no excuses, and just came to work. For the most part, that's what the community reciprocated. We gave him input and good questions while he reciprocated with good answers and more ideas for our input. We need to get back to that.
Finally, I want to say that I'm not defending the Developers one bit. My opinion is that their involvement with us in execusable by any means. I don't really like them at all. But I tolerate them because I know we have to so that we can get something done. And that's all I'm trying to say. Just put up with them so that you can get what you need. You don't have to make friends or praise them, just do what you gotta do.
Please stay on topic and offer any further usefull tips that could actually be taken seriously. I hope that a lot of the newer Smugglers can benefit from this and take it to heart. I'm sure a could of us old timers could too 
Just remember: As a Smuggler, you don't have to like the person you're working with. Just put up with them long enough till your credits roll in. Then you can push 'em out the airlock
Message Edited by NickHeel on 02-01-2005 03:51 PM
NickHeel
Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:24 pm
#4
Thanks, guys. I just can't emphasize my point enough:
Think of it like going to work. You may hate your boss but you don't go up to him and start tearing him down (unless you're in some cool job...but, we're being realistic here). You put up with him from 9-5 to get your paycheck. It sucks that we have to treat the Devs like they're our bosses since we are paying thembut we can either work with them and tollerate them or we can have no input at all.
LaughingWolf
Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:47 pm
#5
Great post.
Got a 5 stars from me, and I think a stickie would be a good idea.
Now I just hope you won't get pounced for sharing a small quote from her PM to you. hehe But I have to say it again, great insightful post.
Got a 5 stars from me, and I think a stickie would be a good idea.
Now I just hope you won't get pounced for sharing a small quote from her PM to you. hehe
But I have to say it again, great insightful post.
Akiram_Glockem
Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:15 pm
#6
Even though I don't post much I think those that do should heed this guide next time a Dev shows up here.
Oh, and 5 stars for you.
Oh, and 5 stars for you.
Message Edited by Akiram_Glockem on 02-01-2005 07:16 PM
SpinningCloud
Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:19 pm
#7
Honestly I think we've done the 'nice' thing more than a few times and it has gotten us nowhere.
What I personally want to see from them is;
1. A REAL attempt to give us SMUGGLING.
2. A detailed plan for SMUGGLING that they come to us for our feedback on. NOT "We would like your input." again.
3. A firm date that they have commited to giving us SMUGGLING.
They come here with THAT and they'll have my respect and my encouragement. Anything else is just more BS...ie. FP, frog bowls, gaming tables, etc..
So, as long as they have NOTHING of value then they might as well just stay away...and their absense is proof that they have nothing of value, ie. SMUGGLING.
SpinningCloud
Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:22 pm
#8
Nick; "You may hate your boss but you don't go up to him and start tearing him down "
With all due respect Nick but you have the analogy quite wrong.
Think of them as your EMPLOYEES...after all we pay them, not the other way around.
If I went to work day after day and people that worked for me NEVER gave me what I wanted, only lame excuses and delays,I would simply fire their asses.
NickHeel
Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:45 pm
#9
SpinningCloud wrote:
Nick; "You may hate your boss but you don't go up to him and start tearing him down "
With all due respect Nick but you have the analogy quite wrong.
Think of them as your EMPLOYEES...after all we pay them, not the other way around.
If I went to work day after day and people that worked for me NEVER gave me what I wanted, only lame excuses and delays,I would simply fire their asses.
I never said that that was the way it should shuold be. But it is. I don't like the Devs and I hold little, if any, respect for them. You know I've been around forever too, so I've done the waiting game and I've done the "proactive" method.
But the facts remain the same. The Devs are more than just stubborn. In their minds, they run the game and their policies won't let them engage with a person or a community that is hostile towards them. It makes them look bad.
I'm not saying we have to lick their boots, just be professional and tollerate them. What can you honestly expect to achieve when Tiggs makes one post to answer a question and she gets flamed. Or when a Dev, who happens to be a Smuggler, posts just to say "hi" and people torch him up.
The facts remain the same: you have to just work with the Devs. Going into guerilla mode and treating them like crap, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY DESERVE IT, is not going to facilitate them working with us in any aspect. You work with them and put up with them like you do a boss to get the end result: A revamp in our case instead of a paycheck.
I'm totally in agreement that the Devs deserve to be sat down and chewed out for a long while, no holds barred. But starting onthat when you're just trying to get information or do some valuable work is not the way to go.
DrevenStrobe
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:00 pm
#10
Drev's approach to dealing with Developers:
I've run the entire length of the scale, from hopeful optimism when they showed up 17 months ago, to outright loathing 6 months ago. And now, I just mostly ignore when they deign to show up here. No offense meant to Tiggs or anything, but the Devs lost "face value" in this forum a long time ago...and probably will never truly get it back until we see some actual progress toward a REAL revamp (not some thrown-together crap like P-9).
It's a great post Nick, and in a utopian world would work great. But, this is the SWG world, where the Devs took their credibility, balled it up, shipped it through a shredder, and tossed the little pieces that were left out the window. It's gonna take a long time for them to put that back together. I do see them TRYING to take steps in the right direction, but they're baby steps. They'll have to forgive THIS Smuggler if I don't just make a complete 180 and pretend that it's all sunshine and lollipops when they show up. Best they'll get from me now is mild indifference.
NickHeel
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:10 am
#11
You forgot the part about the deviant sexual abuse, man. Come on....
nerfherder321 wrote:
:/ i have a good...idea too... to deal with the devs, you must beat them up, feed them spice, and handcuff them to your desk and get the information you need before giving them more spice and sending them back into the wild
nerfherder321
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:13 am
#12
i also forgot the part about brainwashing them, but thast ok, its implied
NickHeel wrote:
You forgot the part about the deviant sexual abuse, man. Come on....
nerfherder321 wrote:
:/ i have a good...idea too... to deal with the devs, you must beat them up, feed them spice, and handcuff them to your desk and get the information you need before giving them more spice and sending them back into the wild
NickHeel
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:27 am
#13
Geevo wrote:
I do believe you are positioning yourself for the next Correspondent position
LOL! I don't know aboutit yet, honestly.I'm getting into the meatier parts of school and I see Wes as doing a great job currently. And it'd think it'd be a while before we see the position open up since the CU is starting up.
Besides, you (Geevo), Dreven, JTG, fishbrains, and probably more are just more qualified. CLICKY I don't think the community would be too accepting of me over any of the those guys. And for good reason
I don't think the community would be too accepting of me over any of the those guys. And for good reason I'm just trying to do what I can to help out the community and the profession.
In the immortal words of Burt Gummer: "Doin' what I can with what I got." I just don't anyone getting the wrong idea about my agendas in taking active steps in tracking down Tiggs and trying to get a cooler atmosphere around here that Devs would find more receptive.
Message Edited by NickHeel on 02-02-2005 03:43 AM
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