Smuggler Archive
Thread: How the crackdown should work.
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ana-mo-cara
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:00 pm
#1
Whats wrong and whats the solution.
1. The crackdown has way too many loopholes. In other words way to easy for players to evade scans by useing the safe haven towns on each planet. This means nobody needs a smuggler they just go to the safe places on every planet.
Answer reduce the imperial pressence in a number of cities. Sometimes they are so thick you have to be idiotic to even go to them. The presence needs to be nominal not overwhelming. Give the regular guy a chance to get by. Increase the imperial presence in other npc cities. It needs to exist and be mobile. The npc stormie should just latch onto passer bys to do scans.
2. The punishment for carrying illegal goods is just unjust. Imperials get a smack on the wrist neutrals pay a small fine, and the rebels get killed. Meaning that an imperial or neutral player gets to be a defacto smuggler.
Answer fines and death are not actual penalties. The empire is actually soft on crime, and corruption. Lets think what a law officer would do. He would not let you keep the sawed off shotgun and smack and let you go off on your way. He would confiscate the items. The scanners should be confiscateing sliced armor weapons and spice. You are found to have one of these items the stormy seizes it in the name of public safety. Thats it you are no longer in violation of the law you no longer have the item
So this is how the system works. The imperial gets docked faction perhaps 200 points. The neutral pays a small fine and gets the contraband seized the rebel gets an option resist or submit. It the rebel submits and is not recognized. He slips by as a neutral. If he resists. He can engage in battle with the stormy. If he loses the item is seized anyway. If he survives he keeps his contraband.
Prohibit contraband from being stored in droids period.
This alone makes a smuggler a valuable ally.
3. Scanning a smuggler is not as effective as he or she should be.
Answer a smuggler should have only a five percent chance of being caught on any scan. If the risk is to high players will not even bother risking the use of a smuggler. If its too low there is no risk at all. Seeing as if real penalties are put in and smuggleing is needed. Groups of players will end up haveing smugglers carry hundreds of items. In which case if the smuggler is caught all those items are gone.
4. Why would anyone risk sliceing a great weapon or armor. If it means they can lose it.
Answer let smugglers temporarily slice gear. For a period equal to two hours. Since most cities will have a imperial pressence in this point of view it will stop players from saddleing up in lines and more seeking smugglers out.
5. What about player cities people can just hunt out of them safe and free.
Answer give the crackdown access to these cities. Rebel imperial neutral it dosent matter. When a city hall is placed it will randomly generate a crackdown spawn within 500 meters of the city. Sometimes they will spawn right near the center sometimes at the edge. In other words no player city is immune to searches.
6. Where should the safehavens be.
Anchorhead, wayfar, moenia, rebel outpost keren, nyms stronghold, smugglers outpost endor vreni island. Basically any npc city that has a shuttleport, or where players could bottleneck. Just enough to make sure that players can congregate for sliceing, or pvp, but not so easy as a player could just hop from starport to starport.
Anyway thats how I think the crackdown should be.
CorellianCowboy
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:24 pm
#2
SpinningCloud
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29 pm
#3
I think you're missing the biggest problem...that the ONE place that all players must travel through are the starports.
Logically if I were placing scans for illegal items it would be in the starports first and foremost...the spot where ALL players move through and would need smugglers to transfer the items.
There should be scans in the landing area where players board and are dropped from zoning. AND, there should be scans at the starship terms and travel terms.
THEN, the only way a player could avoid scans would be to use a smuggler...or the droid loophole which should be fixed.
Having scans anywhere else makes no sense. Either you can easily avoid them OR they are so random that you would have to have a dedicated smuggler carrying your stuff.
Anything else but scans at starports is just plain lame.
CorellianCowboy
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:34 pm
#4
SpinningCloud wrote:I think you're missing the biggest problem...that the ONE place that all players must travel through are the starports.Logically if I were placing scans for illegal items it would be in the starports first and foremost...the spot where ALL players move through and would need smugglers to transfer the items.There should be scans in the landing area where players board and are dropped from zoning. AND, there should be scans at the starship terms and travel terms.THEN, the only way a player could avoid scans would be to use a smuggler...or the droid loophole which should be fixed.Having scans anywhere else makes no sense. Either you can easily avoid them OR they are so random that you would have to have a dedicated smuggler carrying your stuff.Anything else but scans at starports is just plain lame.
Completely and wholeheartedly agreed.
Kamileon
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:41 pm
#5
Absolutely.
This is why Customs is in airport security checks and border patrols, and virtually nowhere else.
The Imperial crackdown should be the same way.
This is why Customs is in airport security checks and border patrols, and virtually nowhere else.
The Imperial crackdown should be the same way.
Aelik Orrigo: Smuggler, Pilot, and Ranger. Kettemoor 
riotcontrol
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:52 pm
#7
SpinningCloud wrote:I think you're missing the biggest problem...that the ONE place that all players must travel through are the starports.Logically if I were placing scans for illegal items it would be in the starports first and foremost...the spot where ALL players move through and would need smugglers to transfer the items.There should be scans in the landing area where players board and are dropped from zoning. AND, there should be scans at the starship terms and travel terms.THEN, the only way a player could avoid scans would be to use a smuggler...or the droid loophole which should be fixed.Having scans anywhere else makes no sense. Either you can easily avoid them OR they are so random that you would have to have a dedicated smuggler carrying your stuff.Anything else but scans at starports is just plain lame.
I do not believe they will ever implement any kind of starport scans. I would very much like to hope so, because it's really the only way to properly introduce smuggling opportunities, and fully support the whole contraband idea, but - look at what has been done to the game in the last few patches. First starport times have been cut in half. Then the introduction of JTL instant travel. And now 60-second waiting times.
It doesn't seem to me that the ultimate goal of the developers is any kind of 'realism' anymore, but just some silly idea of 'fun' and 'convenience' which translates to giving everyone everything now, and borrowing game design choices from FPS games instead of RPGs. People complained for not being able to teleport through starport walls with /bo trans anymore. Imagine if they actually had to wait for a contraband team to scan them at the starport.
Message Edited by riotcontrol on 02-02-2005 08:53 PM
ana-mo-cara
Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:38 pm
#8
I too doubt that they will ever pop them into the starports. Thats why I said put a pressence in almost every city accept for like shuttleport towns.
1. We have to be fair to the other players. There is only 1 your not allowed artifact in the game, and that is the Light stick which only a jedi can hold. All of us can wear any armor use any gun have a pet and have any structure. Players will not stand up for haveing to have a smuggler by them at all times of the day merely to go somewhere. If we put the scans in the starports. That means a guy in mos eisley buys a pack of muon from you and he is planning to hunt on yavin 4 that means if scans were in the starports he would never make it.
There is a difference between being needed and being a requisite. We want to be needed, but not a requisite. Players would not tolerate that.
2. I think the fact that I said put them in most cities is a pretty good way to invite players to use smugglers. Sure you could hop from starport to starport, but if you cannot go outside what good does it do you. I can see there are a few paths of no resistance. A guy useing anchorhead to go to eisley to go to coronet. Then to go to vreni island, but eventually they are going to want to go to the cantina in coronet or go to the science outpost on yavin. Thats where it gets them. Yeah you can find safe havens but you have to bend over backwards to use them. Eventually if you want to go to an adventure planet or go to where the people are your going to have to go through scan country.
3. Most players would fear property seizure more then a fine of dyeing. The first time a guy gets busted with three krayt sliced guns and loses them he will go off the wall. Simply put if its valuable to you. You will want a smuggler to run it to you. I could see a factional smuggler carrying the gear to a battle party rather then ten of them makeing the trek and four of them getting busted.
4. Lastly scanning starports would actually hurt smugglers. Simply put after the tenth time a rebel got ganked by a stormy. He would take the hint and store all gear in a droid, or stop useing sliced items. Every player needs to have a decent chance of getting by not an indefinate one but a decent one. That means imperial officer mike buys a gun and gets it sliced. He goes a few days before a scan catches it, and he gets busted for it he still pays a price in the lost gun and FP.
If we make smuggleing from planet to planet only a smuggler ability the resolution is obvious. A smuggler if every port sliceing stuff for you, and the bizarre is filled with spice.
I think the best we can push for is stormies outside the front door, and people needing to get by without being wasted of fined faction points, and that is where smugglers will come in.
SmugglinZane
Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:40 pm
#9
riotcontrol wrote:
SpinningCloud wrote:
I think you're missing the biggest problem...that the ONE place that all players must travel through are the starports.
Logically if I were placing scans for illegal items it would be in the starports first and foremost...the spot where ALL players move through and would need smugglers to transfer the items.
There should be scans in the landing area where players board and are dropped from zoning. AND, there should be scans at the starship terms and travel terms.
THEN, the only way a player could avoid scans would be to use a smuggler...or the droid loophole which should be fixed.
Having scans anywhere else makes no sense. Either you can easily avoid them OR they are so random that you would have to have a dedicated smuggler carrying your stuff.
Anything else but scans at starports is just plain lame.
I do not believe they will ever implement any kind of starport scans. I would very much like to hope so, because it's really the only way to properly introduce smuggling opportunities, and fully support the whole contraband idea, but - look at what has been done to the game in the last few patches. First starport times have been cut in half. Then the introduction of JTL instant travel. And now 60-second waiting times.
It doesn't seem to me that the ultimate goal of the developers is any kind of 'realism' anymore, but just some silly idea of 'fun' and 'convenience' which translates to giving everyone everything now, and borrowing game design choices from FPS games instead of RPGs. People complained for not being able to teleport through starport walls with /bo trans anymore. Imagine if they actually had to wait for a contraband team to scan them at the starport.
Message Edited by riotcontrol on 02-02-2005 08:53 PM
The stated problem in the past had to do with lag and the fact that starports a funnel point. What they fail to realise are there are two things that will counter this. If people wish to avoid the lag they'll start using cities other than cnet, eisley, and theed in order to avoid it. The other is the fact that if they allowed players to be more involved in cities that they would use the others more. And as far as the rest of the reasons, doing the check prior to travelling vice upon loading into the new city would stop some of the problem as well since people won't be trying to run out and get held up. You could also have entry and exit points (would require some change to starports) that would control some of it as well. What I'm trying to say is that although I'm skeptical they would ever put it in, there are logical alternatives to what they have stated are problems.
Oh yeah...
/points at signature.
That's how I think they could put it through. No doubt an increase in "crackdown" would have to be gradual to get the player base adjusted to it.
JTGAlpha
Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:10 pm
#10
I disagree with all of your solutions, but your problems are right. You wanna get rid of the loopholes? Then get rid of them. Droids only get a pass on scans if they've been modified by a smuggler. Imperials get heavy fines unless they outrank the officer scanning them (and send out a wider variety of Imperials, sheesh-it wouldn't hurt to see a good sized bust or sting by a high muckety muck moff with a full squad at his heels). Confiscation will never be accepted by the playerbase. Death and money are good but the money needs to be upped or percentage based. More stormtroopers are good, but it won't solve anything because the problems still remain. And player bounties need to be more prevalent. I think getting put on the bounty hunter boards will deter a lot of people. Heck, if you DON'T like PvP then perhaps you can opt for a PvE bounty hunter. Who cares. The point is the same. But that's just me.
ana-mo-cara
Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:22 pm
#11
Outrank see there is one of the bad mentalities out there. That an imp should get off with being a corrupt lawbreaker. Working for McDonalds dosent get you a free pass to go to the backroom and snort some cocaine. Whether your a manager or not. These are imperial officers someone would rat you out for a promotion in a heartbeat. They built the deathstar and blew up a planet. What they didnt know what it was for. These are self justifying people. Even the high ranks set eachother up for the fall. So if anything imperial officers should take a bigger hit for breaking the laws.
Money once again is not a rareity. We have to stop pushing for things to revolve around money. There are two kinds of players in the game. People that have alot of money, and those who do not. If you are a have a fine will not disuade you. If its a percentage that cuts into the bank which it will need to. Then the end result is players simply will stockpile wealth in other things.
DoI think players will rebel if their stuff gets taken. If a temporary slice is put in no. One we get away from the preslice nonsense in the game, and two players need to use smugglers more. If your running around with a preslice armor in the middle of bestine. You deserve to lose it. Especially if you have the option to get a armor sliced when you really need it.
Lets stop looking for ways for imperials to be defacto smugglers. Players that actually smuggle better then smugglers. We spent the skill points the bonus should be ours. Not an imperial colonels.
JTGAlpha
Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:36 pm
#12
Okay, but that kind of viciousness can be displayed by getting the slap on the wrist. Imperials are corrupt. At least a lot of them are, so to get busted you have to get busted by someone with more "juice" than you. It's a concession that's helpful, trust me. I was in this fight last time.
Money is not a rariety but it's one of the few things players fear losing that they'll allow to be taken away. Yes, there are the haves and have-nots. That's why you have a PERCENTAGE system. It could even be a progressive one to take the sting off poorer players. Open your mind to different mathematical formulas. This is a math thing, which developers are good at. There are models for this that could work just fine, plus its simple, plus its something we KNOW players will be more apt to accept.
Like jail, I don't know if confiscation would be a good idea or not, a fun idea or not. But I DO know that the dev's are agin it, the players would be up in arms, and while it's still an option that we know exists, it's not one that's likely to be used, so we might as well tuck it away. It doesn't matter if they deserve it, because like I said in another thread, "Tough T!tty" will NOT sell it to the devs. And that's just something you have to figure for. It doesn't matter if it's the best idea since sliced bread if we know the dev's won't go for it. Cold fusion may solve the world's energy problem but it's tough to sell that to energy companies since it's still physically impossible, ya dig?
Kamileon
Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:38 pm
#13
It's not looking for ways to take things away from Smugglers. I wanna smuggle as much as the next scoundrel, but to be perfectly realistic about it (and trust me, I thought the Imps shouldn't get away with murder until I lost this argument with a Marine...) if you're an Imperial grunt soldier, running scans in Theed, and you come across an Imperial General, you're NOT going to stop an scan him, you're gonna salute and carry on.
"Excuse me Lord Vader, I need to check your backpack for Muon, sir."
No, I don't bloody well think so.
"Outrank" is precisely the mechanism by which Imperials escape scans, and I agree that there should be more higher ranking scan squads, so that unless you're way, way up there in rank, it's something you still have to be afraid of as an Imperial, but your odds of getting scanned are lower, because your boys aren't gonna worry about you, they're gonna worry about the civvies and the rebel terrorists. The tradeoff? If the Imperial does get busted with contraband, he/she gets busted, hard. If you're an Imperial Captain, and you're used to smugly passing grunt scan groups, one day you'll come across a General running scans, and you're gonna get busted down, fined, and in some SERIOUS trouble.
Does that make high-ranking Imps the best Smugglers? Well, unfortunately, but it's also realistic, and therefore I wouldn't want the system any other way. If you're gonna smuggle stuff, who's gonna have the best chance of being undetected? A corrupt high-ranking Imperial officer, or a common criminal? If we did things the easy way, we wouldn't be Smugglers to begin with, and if the Empire weren't corrupt, they wouldn't be worth fighting against.
Even keeping that in mind, the Smugglers, especially Masters, need to have some skills that give them other ways to get around the Imperial scans, or escape punishment to make them equal or better to high ranking Imps. Fast talking, persuasion, low risk of getting material discovered, whatever it takes so that Imps don't corner the contraband travel market.
Not to mention, that's only focusing on Imperial scans. The CorSecs, RSF, Nym's hooligans, etc. should all run their own scans on civilians and enemy-aligned players. (I.E. CorSecs are more likely to scan someone with low CorSec faction) Merely being a high ranking Imperial will ONLY get you past Imperial scans. Won't get you past Rebel scans, CorSec scans, so on. But Smugglers, Smugglers will have the bonuses against all scans. So, if you're a high-ranking persona in a certain faction, you get off scott-free with that faction. Big surprise. But there's others willing to bust you. Smugglers, on the other hand, know how to sneak past everybody.
This solves so many problems:
- Scans being rather unfairly to Rebels argument
- Scans be faction farms to Rebels argument
- Smugglers don't get to smuggle argument
- Imperial high ranks are the best smugglers argument
- Not enough players involved in the GCQ argument (Civvies get scanned more than anyone, and penalties from everyone...)
"Excuse me Lord Vader, I need to check your backpack for Muon, sir."
No, I don't bloody well think so.
"Outrank" is precisely the mechanism by which Imperials escape scans, and I agree that there should be more higher ranking scan squads, so that unless you're way, way up there in rank, it's something you still have to be afraid of as an Imperial, but your odds of getting scanned are lower, because your boys aren't gonna worry about you, they're gonna worry about the civvies and the rebel terrorists. The tradeoff? If the Imperial does get busted with contraband, he/she gets busted, hard. If you're an Imperial Captain, and you're used to smugly passing grunt scan groups, one day you'll come across a General running scans, and you're gonna get busted down, fined, and in some SERIOUS trouble.
Does that make high-ranking Imps the best Smugglers? Well, unfortunately, but it's also realistic, and therefore I wouldn't want the system any other way. If you're gonna smuggle stuff, who's gonna have the best chance of being undetected? A corrupt high-ranking Imperial officer, or a common criminal? If we did things the easy way, we wouldn't be Smugglers to begin with, and if the Empire weren't corrupt, they wouldn't be worth fighting against.
Even keeping that in mind, the Smugglers, especially Masters, need to have some skills that give them other ways to get around the Imperial scans, or escape punishment to make them equal or better to high ranking Imps. Fast talking, persuasion, low risk of getting material discovered, whatever it takes so that Imps don't corner the contraband travel market.
Not to mention, that's only focusing on Imperial scans. The CorSecs, RSF, Nym's hooligans, etc. should all run their own scans on civilians and enemy-aligned players. (I.E. CorSecs are more likely to scan someone with low CorSec faction) Merely being a high ranking Imperial will ONLY get you past Imperial scans. Won't get you past Rebel scans, CorSec scans, so on. But Smugglers, Smugglers will have the bonuses against all scans. So, if you're a high-ranking persona in a certain faction, you get off scott-free with that faction. Big surprise. But there's others willing to bust you. Smugglers, on the other hand, know how to sneak past everybody.
This solves so many problems:
- Scans being rather unfairly to Rebels argument
- Scans be faction farms to Rebels argument
- Smugglers don't get to smuggle argument
- Imperial high ranks are the best smugglers argument
- Not enough players involved in the GCQ argument (Civvies get scanned more than anyone, and penalties from everyone...)
Message Edited by Kamileon on 02-02-2005 03:46 PM
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