Shipwright Archive
Thread: An Observation Regarding Low Ballers and their Future as Shipwrights.
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CapnKate
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:20 pm
#1
I have no doubt you are correct, Tanks. In fact, even the people who are bankrolling their SW using something like Weaponsmith will eventually get tired of it cutting into their WS profits and either re-price or leave.
My concern, though, is where this leaves everyone else.
The low-balling is eductating the consumer to believe that lower prices are reasonable and the norm. They're getting used to finding ships at 2 cpu and lower. Now, fast-forward to the post-lowballing phase, we find some things to be likely:
-Fewer Shipwrights overall.
-Fewer SWs = more work for existing SWs.
-More work = more hassle
-More hassle = SW hikes prices
I'm sure everyone gets the idea. this is why the 2cpu SWs bug me. We already have an unreasonable expectation amoung the consumer base that ships shouldn't cost this much. "What about newbs" and "Luke said 10K for a ship!" are already thrown around a ton. The low-cost SWs make this expectation worse... and when they go, I'm almost 100% sure the rest of us will have to raise prices as we get buried in orders. But that's they way it goes. It's just not going to be at all good for the profession in the long run, but what can you do?
My concern, though, is where this leaves everyone else.
The low-balling is eductating the consumer to believe that lower prices are reasonable and the norm. They're getting used to finding ships at 2 cpu and lower. Now, fast-forward to the post-lowballing phase, we find some things to be likely:
-Fewer Shipwrights overall.
-Fewer SWs = more work for existing SWs.
-More work = more hassle
-More hassle = SW hikes prices
I'm sure everyone gets the idea. this is why the 2cpu SWs bug me. We already have an unreasonable expectation amoung the consumer base that ships shouldn't cost this much. "What about newbs" and "Luke said 10K for a ship!" are already thrown around a ton. The low-cost SWs make this expectation worse... and when they go, I'm almost 100% sure the rest of us will have to raise prices as we get buried in orders. But that's they way it goes. It's just not going to be at all good for the profession in the long run, but what can you do?
Slochini
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:37 pm
#2
As of right now...I don't do custom stuff. If it's not on my vendor, youre gonna have to wait till I restock. I WILL do orders for stuff my partners run out of IF i'm in the shop. If I'm not in the shop, I'm doing somehting realted to SW and that needs to be done. I'm not going to break my current job to make a 30k item. Lucky, as a member of a now 5 person SW/DE corp, supply really isnt an issue. As for my prices...pay it or go to the countless other vendors that are empty or don't have what you want. 9 times out of 10 I'm going to have what you are looking for so I can justify my prices. Also when youre on Rodeo Dr (So Cnet) people are willing to pay more for the ease of shopping...especialy if they KNOW youre going to have what they need.
Slochini
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:38 pm
#3
I said alot without really covering the topic...lol.
Lowballing is either nonexistant on my server or so far removed from my view that I don't know it exists. It certainly isn't reflected in my sales.
Little-Green-Guy
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:44 pm
#4
Tanks wrote:
I am almost out of my mid level "Inert Petrochems" and did not want to use my stacks of 998OQ Lube Oils to make starter ships so I went in search of my favorite resource vendor.
First I stopped at another SW shop and saw that he had 10 Y-Wings at 20K, so I bought them all. My immediate problem solved. I headed out to the resource vendor. This guy prior to JTL had 9 resource vendors each vendor having multiple pages of resources. Steel, ore, iron, alum, and inert chem vendors were picked clean. I did see some decent Known Inert Gasses and bought a million units for 3CPU. I looked at his energy vendor and saw that he had several 100K stacks of the SW radioactive at 5CPU. But, no other radiavtive at all since the last time I was there and bought all of his stock..
This brings me to my point. The people that are lowballing right now are going to be running out of resources soon. The replacement cost of these resources is going to be more than the price they are charging for their ships and components.
I have a feeling eventually, once the novelty wears off, people that do not have a commitment to the profession are going to leave or go out of business. There are just too many resources involved to be able to mine it all and still be able to sell at a discount rate. Either that or they are not going to be using optional components, which will be their failure as Pilots begin to start looking at stats. Experience tells me that people will pay premium for a good weapon then buy a cheap average weapon, this translates into SW profession as well.
So, I'd say that the lowballing will go away soon.
who's vendor did ya visit?
WS-GodLike
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:06 pm
#5
As far as I've seen there already arent so many SW's selling stuff cheaper than the resources cost already
-rav-
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:11 pm
#6
That's what i'm doing now, i run a shop with high - top quality components at high prices.I dont sell as much as the low ballers but i get more profit a sale, so i get more money for my work and i dont have to stay behind the crafting station all day long. My custimors are happywith it, i'm almost always stocked and the prices are worth the quality items.
Message Edited by -rav- on 11-11-2004 02:12 PM
Minjaru
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:31 pm
#7
For the most part my MSW doesn't sell to the public. Prices are to low and resources are so low right now that the prices keep rising. Granted with the help of my guild and largely due to my guild leader I do not have resource problems but that's not the point. Shipwrights are shooting themselves in the foot selling their chassis for 5 cpu. Most resource vendors are selling at 10 cpu for their grinding resources these days. Well at least on Starsider they are. The cheap ones are at 5 cpu and those ones much less the 10 cpu ones cannot supply enough resources for the community.
I was one of the people who mastered the first day. Not so I could sell like crazy to everyone under the sun. No I did it largely for my guild and to truely learn everything I can about the profession so that I can provide top quality quipment to my guild and customers. I pride myself in my work. I have spent countless hours researching what resources need to have for stats for what components. I am constantly attending to 40+ harvesters gathering resources not to mention the rest of my guild that is doing the same. I am making components and sub-components that my guild mates are very excited to get when given to them.
All this time, effert, and learning is not done so that I can sell my stuff for 5 cpu or worse but is rather done so that when people get my ships and my equipment they will come back to me and want more. I have every confidence that my guild truely is flying around in the best ships with the best quipment on Starsider today. And they will continue to do so.
I do look forward to when the novelty wares off and the majority of the shipwrights move onto something else and allow those of us who really want to be this become well know for high quality top notch ships and components.
For those of you who are not Shipwright's who might be reading this, Master Shipwright's CAN make components better then the looted ones. It's all about knowing your profession and being the Master rather then just another drone with a title.
Mkappus
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:48 pm
#8
My pricing strategy is 10 cpu on chassis and 20 cpu on parts. For the time being I am selling things fine. But the entire economy is in for a huge upheaval.
Solo-grouping is going away, and a major influx of cash is going to be turned way way down. Instead of people being able to generate 300-500k per hour doing Janta missions, it is probably going to be down to 50-100k. In addition, we are having major supply and demand fluctuations on the ground due to the impact of JTL. I would imagine that the days of people paying 350 cpu for avian meat for buffs will not be around much longer, since the demand for buffs is probably 2/3 of what it was.
I think right now most of us high priced people are going to have to re-evaluate our pricing, as will the resource gatherers. With less cash in the market we are going to have to price our items from 5-10 cpu, not 10-20 cpu. Resources are going to need to drop back to the 2-4 cpu, not 5-10 cpu. The cost to run an extractor hasn't changed, just demand has skyrocketed as thousands of chassis that will never be used are being made to reach master shipwright. Once folks stop building chassis the demand for minerals should be much more sustainable.
Also, we are going to have to drop our prices since there is plenty of looted components that can compete with our crafted items. If you can collect 7 level 7 engines and get it reverse engineered for free, why bother with a crafted engine for 75k that is only 5% better.
TommyBoy73110
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:50 pm
#9
Crap, Check the bazaar, you want to talk about lowball you can find novice ships for 5k filling the vendors, it's obvious people are just grinding away. I'm not really worried though, I still sell quite alot of ships, and alot of components, and who can ever keep up with the paint kits 
I'm trying really to decide what is fair, I'm setting prices on ships to 5cpu now, which is actually quite alot of profit for me now, that my resource people are starting to have stock again.
Rao
Master Shipwright
I'm trying really to decide what is fair, I'm setting prices on ships to 5cpu now, which is actually quite alot of profit for me now, that my resource people are starting to have stock again. Rao
Master Shipwright
EdOWar
Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:13 pm
#10
Any low-ballers that buy their resources will eventually have to either quit or raise prices. But those that use cross-server lot trading, or borrow large numbers of lots from friends/guildies,can operate scores of harvestors. Granted, they will be static harvestors and so not always optimally placed, but it will go a long way towards keeping them in business. Now, I'm not whining that we need to nerf this; I'm just pointing out that while in the long run most low-ballerswill leave the profession,there are still going to be some out there who will be largely unaffected by the prices and availabilityof resources. Just an observation, is all.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
QuiJonOz
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:25 pm
#11
I think that your observation is dead on Tanks. Lowballers won't be able to sustain a Wal-Mart business model, as their suppliers will not drop their prices and their customers will be willing to pay more for quality.
Kinshi
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:27 pm
#12
On the note of lowballers, you need to consider there are up and coming shipwrights that are tossing out Tier 1 ships simply to try and recoup part of their investment in the trade.
I mean why have all those resources simply dissapear on practice? Dont forget this game still has plenty of noobs who would be more than happy to have a a ship, any ship let alone a top of the line OQ 999 on everything ship.
Its like buying a home theatre from Wal-Mart as opposed to Magnoolia Hi-Fi. Yea a $25,000 system would give you the best of everything but ya know most cant afford that so they have to make do. Dont assume everyone has a million credits burning a hole in their pocket, they dont.
When I blow 6k resources on a Tier 1 ship, I know A) No one will buy at anything I consider a profit because no one wants Tier 1 ships unless they have no other choice B) The only way to get any money on those ships is to sell them under cost and recoup some of the loss. (you have too make the dang things to gain skill, there is no other choice, so I say sell my ships I make while training, and give the folks who have no budget for a really good ship something to buy.
I say those folks will come back to you when they do have money and want a good ship. No sense holding them over a barrel.
I mean why have all those resources simply dissapear on practice? Dont forget this game still has plenty of noobs who would be more than happy to have a a ship, any ship let alone a top of the line OQ 999 on everything ship.
Its like buying a home theatre from Wal-Mart as opposed to Magnoolia Hi-Fi. Yea a $25,000 system would give you the best of everything but ya know most cant afford that so they have to make do. Dont assume everyone has a million credits burning a hole in their pocket, they dont.
When I blow 6k resources on a Tier 1 ship, I know A) No one will buy at anything I consider a profit because no one wants Tier 1 ships unless they have no other choice B) The only way to get any money on those ships is to sell them under cost and recoup some of the loss. (you have too make the dang things to gain skill, there is no other choice, so I say sell my ships I make while training, and give the folks who have no budget for a really good ship something to buy.
I say those folks will come back to you when they do have money and want a good ship. No sense holding them over a barrel.
Slochini
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:46 pm
#13
So not true. I sell (well I did) tons of Z-95s. You have to remember that you can't hyper drive in a POS starter ship and you can't upgrade. People will buy them JUST for the hyper drive. I agree they need ot eb afforadable but to say no one wants them is just wrong.
Kinshi wrote:
On the note of lowballers, you need to consider there are up and coming shipwrights that are tossing out Tier 1 ships simply to try and recoup part of their investment in the trade.
I mean why have all those resources simply dissapear on practice? Dont forget this game still has plenty of noobs who would be more than happy to have a a ship, any ship let alone a top of the line OQ 999 on everything ship.
Its like buying a home theatre from Wal-Mart as opposed to Magnoolia Hi-Fi. Yea a $25,000 system would give you the best of everything but ya know most cant afford that so they have to make do. Dont assume everyone has a million credits burning a hole in their pocket, they dont.
When I blow 6k resources on a Tier 1 ship, I know A) No one will buy at anything I consider a profit because no one wants Tier 1 ships unless they have no other choice B) The only way to get any money on those ships is to sell them under cost and recoup some of the loss. (you have too make the dang things to gain skill, there is no other choice, so I say sell my ships I make while training, and give the folks who have no budget for a really good ship something to buy.
I say those folks will come back to you when they do have money and want a good ship. No sense holding them over a barrel.
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