Shipwright Archive
Thread: An Observation Regarding Low Ballers and their Future as Shipwrights.
LonelyGhost
Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:12 pm
#14
I operate on a 5-10cpu basis. I am on Tat where they isnt much traffic, and there are a lot of newer players.Most of my business goes to Guildmates. I have I think 3 or 4 non-guild members buying from me fairly regularly, and 2 or 3 guidies. I am content to sell 5 to 20 items a day. I rarely sell a chassis. I will not be lowing me prices any time soon. As I grow in knowledge and experience in SW, I will likely identify certain things I will need to increase in price. Bottom line is that steel goes for 5 or more cpu now, and I wont sell parts for less than I can get selling the resources.
RagNoRock5x
Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:26 pm
#15
Ghost, what server are you on?
I ask because I am based in tat, and like to keep up with compitition 
I also belive there will always be lowballers, due to the lot swaps and stuff.
Also Think the entire Economy will be blown out of wack with this removal of solo group income. Prices will probly have to be drasticaly reduced. I think alot of people dont notice that almost all the credits being brought into the system are from Solo groups (probly about 90%). With that income taken away all poop is gunna break loose!!
DarthLithic
Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:33 pm
#16
to add my 2 cents, I am currently 2-1-1-2 Shipwright, and about to get my next skill. I sell Kimos for about 35k, and I have no problem with it. I don't sell in large bulk, but that's because this is my first crafting profession, and I don't have tons of resources stocked up. I do have some guildies harvesting for me, and I am making decent progress. I make enough $ to turn a decent profit since I harvest my own resources, or buy cheap. As I go up in the profession, I know that my prices will go up. I tell my customers that when they buy. My point is that since I am a new crafter, my name is not known, so I sell things cheap (including paint kits, they sell like hotcakes) and tell my customers that I will do what I can to keep prices down, but that if I start loosing money, I'll have to raise the price. they don't seem to mind, and I know that I have the cheapest prices on Chilastra. I know I'm not going anywhere, so I hope that you guys that are gouging people don't get too upset. (and don't tell me that you're not, when I can sell a Kimo for 30k and not take a loss, and you're selling yours for 200k)
BoogerSlinger
Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:10 am
#17
DarthLithic wrote:
I know I'm not going anywhere, so I hope that you guys that are gouging people don't get too upset. (and don't tell me that you're not, when I can sell a Kimo for 30k and not take a loss, and you're selling yours for 200k)
Someone is in for a rude awakening
Patients is the key
Kalano
Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:30 am
#18
As for me, i won't be grinding any chassies. Not even a SW yet, no rush, and my toon that will be is not even eng 4 yet. Still having to much fun flying and not ready to the hunting of resources. But, i will get there, when i get there.
But i am going to grind thru the parts and mostly probably paint and texture kits. something with low amount of resource, probably not many sales. But who knows, i can't almost seem to find one of them to save my life.
But the big thing will be parts, good parts infact. my three biggest problems in upgrading my ship is, highest lvl parts i can use, too much mass, and way to much energy use. So, anything that cures those problems will make i think quite a few people happy. Especailly when pilots learn that tactics and grouping will not always win the fight, but the best guns, shields, and engines will be the upper hand.
Demio_Olaron
Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:41 am
#19
Yea, I think that these guys really hurt all the Shipwrights...
I saw this old client saying "YOU RIPPED ME OFF!!!! The 600k you charged me for that TIE Interceptor was 300k too much!! Yada yada yada", this stuff really makes me mad because I know my prices are below average (I'm not a low baller ) and these people have the nerve to complaint bout my prices... My SW motto: If you Quality Ships for reasonable prices come to my shop, if you want crap for cheap go somewhere else...
My Prices:
---------------
Equipment:
Mark I/Light: 3k
Mark II/Mid-Grade: 7k
Mark III/Heavy: 14k
Mark IV/Advanced: 30k
Mark V/Experimental: Not Available Yet
---------------
Chassis:
Novice 30k
Tier I: 110k (150k if good experimentation)
Tier II: 240K (310k if good experimentation)
Tier III: 510 K (600k if good experimentation)
Tier IV: N/A Yet
Master: N/A Yet
---------------
I saw this old client saying "YOU RIPPED ME OFF!!!! The 600k you charged me for that TIE Interceptor was 300k too much!! Yada yada yada", this stuff really makes me mad because I know my prices are below average (I'm not a low baller
) and these people have the nerve to complaint bout my prices... My SW motto: If you Quality Ships for reasonable prices come to my shop, if you want crap for cheap go somewhere else...My Prices:
---------------
Equipment:
Mark I/Light: 3k
Mark II/Mid-Grade: 7k
Mark III/Heavy: 14k
Mark IV/Advanced: 30k
Mark V/Experimental: Not Available Yet
---------------
Chassis:
Novice 30k
Tier I: 110k (150k if good experimentation)
Tier II: 240K (310k if good experimentation)
Tier III: 510 K (600k if good experimentation)
Tier IV: N/A Yet
Master: N/A Yet
---------------
Tanks
Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:51 am
#20
I am almost out of my mid level "Inert Petrochems" and did not want to use my stacks of 998OQ Lube Oils to make starter ships so I went in search of my favorite resource vendor.
First I stopped at another SW shop and saw that he had 10 Y-Wings at 20K, so I bought them all. My immediate problem solved. I headed out to the resource vendor. This guy prior to JTL had 9 resource vendors each vendor having multiple pages of resources. Steel, ore, iron, alum, and inert chem vendors were picked clean. I did see some decent Known Inert Gasses and bought a million units for 3CPU. I looked at his energy vendor and saw that he had several 100K stacks of the SW radioactive at 5CPU. But, no other radiavtive at all since the last time I was there and bought all of his stock. .
.This brings me to my point. The people that are lowballing right now are going to be running out of resources soon. The replacement cost of these resources is going to be more than the price they are charging for their ships and components.
I have a feeling eventually, once the novelty wears off, people that do not have a commitment to the profession are going to leave or go out of business. There are just too many resources involved to be able to mine it all and still be able to sell at a discount rate. Either that or they are not going to be using optional components, which will be their failure as Pilots begin to start looking at stats. Experience tells me that people will pay premium for a good weapon then buy a cheap average weapon, this translates into SW profession as well.
So, I'd say that the lowballing will go away soon.
zazo
Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:58 am
#21
its simple economics folks
those that are not charging enough will not be able to keep up with demand and run out of supplies and not make up for the costs of said supplies and time.
those that are charging too much will likely have stock sitting around thus reducing their cash flow until they are able to sell.
the economy works on its own really you just have to be fair and patient
BioBlender
Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:12 am
#22
BoogerSlinger wrote:
I agree with you. I personally use top resources and charge anywhere from 5-8cpu for all my goods. The biggest issue that most crafters in this profession are concidering now is their time and effort put into hand crafting items so the prices may vary from SW to SW depending on what they value there time at.
I think the main focus here are those who are selling good quality ships and components for less than 2cpu. This is actually happening as i talk to my customers about it. Example:
Had a customer ask me if 100K for a TIE Interceptor is good andI told him it depended on the mass and hitpoints. He stated the mass was 50K and the hitpoint were 1900......I was shocked to see someone selling this at 100K because that's roughly 1.6cpu. I said that it must be used then....Nope, brand new.
It's these guys and galsi think the post is referring too. And surely at these prices they will go belly up quick.
completely agree that that is 2 low but it might actually be verry smart. I think that alot of the SW think that thay are going to be making chassis daily for the rest of there game play. I forsee that Chassis are going to all but dry up maby sell 5 a week in a month or 2. These so called low ballers will already have a customer base that likes there prices and then when everything evens out thay price to match the going rate. Clients will come back to see the Lowballer because thay felt taht thay were treated fair when the game went live. After that it is goingto be Shields, weps, reactors, engins(if thay are fixed) AND OUR BIGGEST business will be Missles and Bombs. The pilots are eating them up. I am selling (7)-13use packs a day to each of my clients. This is a avrage but it is HUGE. I now that some are having trouble running thses in there factories but I am not so I am trying to stock pile a bit just incase it gets worse before it gets better. The hand craftig does suck but anything that has to be hand crafted I have a 24 hour turn around on. Meaning that I take orders 24hours in advance. I like this aspect as it makes my client think about what thay want instead of buying something and asking for me to buy it bak because thay are not qualified or it did not meet there needs. I want my clients to be as educated as me about every aspect of the ship. Well minus my wife she is a lost hope.
PS: Space Bomb's rock
BOOM I love it when stuff blowes up. I want all missles and bombs on my ship hahaha J/K
Message Edited by BioBlender on 11-12-2004 04:15 AM
Niacia
Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:42 am
#23
Demio_Olaron wrote:
Yea, I think that these guys really hurt all the Shipwrights...
I saw this old client saying "YOU RIPPED ME OFF!!!! The 600k you charged me for that TIE Interceptor was 300k too much!! Yada yada yada", this stuff really makes me mad because I know my prices are below average (I'm not a low baller
My Prices:
---------------
Equipment:
Mark I/Light: 3k
Mark II/Mid-Grade: 7k
Mark III/Heavy: 14k
Mark IV/Advanced: 30k
Mark V/Experimental: Not Available Yet
---------------
Chassis:
Novice 30k
Tier I: 110k (150k if good experimentation)
Tier II: 240K (310k if good experimentation)
Tier III: 510 K (600k if good experimentation)
Tier IV: N/A Yet
Master: N/A Yet
---------------
A tie interceptor for 600k? As a SW myself, I think this is a rip off. I sell mine at less then half your price.
I do not really understand why I should sell at 10CPU, if I can get resources for a lot less. I usually buy the things I do not mine myself at around 5 cpu.
For me, I think selling at resource cost, plus some markup for the work involved is fair. And building a chassis does not involve that much work.
But then, I only own a small buisiness, Not many customers. And a customer, wanting to shop with me, should bring some time. I like to identify a customers need.
And I do have fun runing my buisiness. Which imho is what realy makes the difference between a sucessfull buisiness and a failing one in an MMORG. This is not really economy of credits, it is economy of time spend having fun.
A SW selling his ships at 100 times his costs will drop out, if he is not having fun doing so. On the other hand, a shipwright who is selling slightly above cost will not dropout, if he is having fun.
And, btw, with sologroups soon being a thing of the past, I expect prices will need to fall quite a bit. And fall they will...
Less money influx means fewer people will be able to buy ships. Fewer people buying ships means fewer shipwrights buying resources. Fewer resources sold will mean, resource prces go down. Then you will be forced to adjust your prices.
Regards
Niacia
Demio_Olaron
Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:35 am
#24
Niacia wrote:
Demio_Olaron wrote:
Yea, I think that these guys really hurt all the Shipwrights...
I saw this old client saying "YOU RIPPED ME OFF!!!! The 600k you charged me for that TIE Interceptor was 300k too much!! Yada yada yada", this stuff really makes me mad because I know my prices are below average (I'm not a low baller
My Prices:
---------------
Equipment:
Mark I/Light: 3k
Mark II/Mid-Grade: 7k
Mark III/Heavy: 14k
Mark IV/Advanced: 30k
Mark V/Experimental: Not Available Yet
---------------
Chassis:
Novice 30k
Tier I: 110k (150k if good experimentation)
Tier II: 240K (310k if good experimentation)
Tier III: 510 K (600k if good experimentation)
Tier IV: N/A Yet
Master: N/A Yet
---------------
A tie interceptor for 600k? As a SW myself, I think this is a rip off. I sell mine at less then half your price.
I do not really understand why I should sell at 10CPU, if I can get resources for a lot less. I usually buy the things I do not mine myself at around 5 cpu.
For me, I think selling at resource cost, plus some markup for the work involved is fair. And building a chassis does not involve that much work.
But then, I only own a small buisiness, Not many customers. And a customer, wanting to shop with me, should bring some time. I like to identify a customers need.
And I do have fun runing my buisiness. Which imho is what realy makes the difference between a sucessfull buisiness and a failing one in an MMORG. This is not really economy of credits, it is economy of time spend having fun.
A SW selling his ships at 100 times his costs will drop out, if he is not having fun doing so. On the other hand, a shipwright who is selling slightly above cost will not dropout, if he is having fun.
And, btw, with sologroups soon being a thing of the past, I expect prices will need to fall quite a bit. And fall they will...
Less money influx means fewer people will be able to buy ships. Fewer people buying ships means fewer shipwrights buying resources. Fewer resources sold will mean, resource prces go down. Then you will be forced to adjust your prices.
Regards
Niacia
So, I should be stupid and sell something that cost me 4/5 cpu for 6? Thats just dumb business practics... I buy for 4 or 5 and sell for 7 or 8, this way I get money for more and better resources, resulting in being able to make better ships and components.
If you have 396094306940964096504960496406940840785478458704757hkgmhiotryhkty59064790579346896943864936894tg54g5uin5gn5jgnrtg*10^48968596 harvesters working for you, I dont
I'm surely not trying to rip anyone off, but I don't want to rip my self off either
Message Edited by Demio_Olaron on 11-12-2004 12:37 PM
_SilentWarrior_
Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:42 am
#25
have a sw on lowca doing the same thing 500k for a YT-1300 and saying everyone else is over priced,he's charging 2-2.7 cpu for his chassis's
PetaByte32
Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:08 am
#26
Tanks wrote:
I am almost out of my mid level "Inert Petrochems" and did not want to use my stacks of 998OQ Lube Oils to make starter ships so I went in search of my favorite resource vendor.
First I stopped at another SW shop and saw that he had 10 Y-Wings at 20K, so I bought them all. My immediate problem solved. I headed out to the resource vendor. This guy prior to JTL had 9 resource vendors each vendor having multiple pages of resources. Steel, ore, iron, alum, and inert chem vendors were picked clean. I did see some decent Known Inert Gasses and bought a million units for 3CPU. I looked at his energy vendor and saw that he had several 100K stacks of the SW radioactive at 5CPU. But, no other radiavtive at all since the last time I was there and bought all of his stock.
This brings me to my point. The people that are lowballing right now are going to be running out of resources soon. The replacement cost of these resources is going to be more than the price they are charging for their ships and components.
I have a feeling eventually, once the novelty wears off, people that do not have a commitment to the profession are going to leave or go out of business. There are just too many resources involved to be able to mine it all and still be able to sell at a discount rate. Either that or they are not going to be using optional components, which will be their failure as Pilots begin to start looking at stats. Experience tells me that people will pay premium for a good weapon then buy a cheap average weapon, this translates into SW profession as well.
So, I'd say that the lowballing will go away soon.
I used to be worried about the cheaper SWs ruining the profession much like what happened with Architect. But I have already seen 5 shipwrights go out of business on my server in just two weeks. They were selling so cheap they priced themselves under the market. Couldnt get back what they put in.
Tyranus