Shipwright Archive

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Little-Green-Guy wrote:

lot swaps are an exploit.

/exploiter

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no there not...

Anyways ill swap with ya i need somemore send me a pm or a xServer tell

/tell Tarqunias.Rouse Message

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YukiGoGo wrote:

First off, let me say that, though my signature is for my 1st tooon, Tamiko, I also run AmyThyst, who is a novice SW. So, please do not feel the need to tell me to go to my own profession board. ^_^

Ok, about Lot Swaps. I happily admit that I and my ig fiance have about 80 harvesters running, the majority of which are from cross server lot trades. I don't see the problem with this, but everyone seems to hate it. Why is that? And, how is one supposed to mine the massive amounts of resources needed with only a fraction of those harvesters? Even with our 80 some-odd harvesters, we have run out of steel before one of us has made Master SW. I haven't even been able to grind past Novice yet. We had even been saving up resources for about a month and a half prior to the JTL release. Maybe some of you have been stockpiling longer, or had friends to give/sell you steel, or got lucky and bought up someone's vendor stock early on. Now, however, I can't find steel to save my life. I searched countless vendors, and posted in the trade forums, all to no avail. If any of you have a vision of people like me sucking up massive amounts of steel easily, and hording it, getting us ahead in our profession, let me pop that thought bubble right now. Simply isnt happening. If there is a better way to do it, one that doesnt require all those harvesters, and the support of tons of friends/guildmates, please, someone enlighten me? I am all for taking care of my server's economy, and want to be a caring, considerate competitor with my fellow SW's, and I think I am. Am I so wrong?

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Right, not sure how you have not been able to get enough steel with 80 Harvesters.... A quick bit of maths gives

Take a low 50% spot , using BER 13 harvs

50%*13 = 6.5units/min (u/m)
6.5 * 60 = 390 units/hr (u/h)
390 * 23 = 8970 units/day (u/d) (server is up about 23hrs give or take)
8970 * 80 = 717600 u/d from the 80 harvesters

Using BER 10 Mediums

50*10 = 5 u/m
5 * 60 = 300 u/h
300 * 23 = 6900 u/d
6900 * 80 = 552000 u/d

and using BER 4's (why would anyone bother)

50*4 = 2u/m
2*60=120 u/h
120 * 23=2760 u/d
2760 * 80 = 220800u/d

Now since 2.5mill (being generous) are need for shipwright that means 11(and a bit)days with the BER 4 harvesters to get the 2.5m or using the 13's only 3.5days (same applies to the ore / fiberplast etc)

Now a single BER 13 on a 90% spot will yield 16146 u/d , so you would need in an average resource spawn of say 14days, 12 Harvs to give that 2.5mill Steel needed.

This is where the cross server lot trades falls down, you may have 40 harvs sitting on 10% max steel, thus they are useless to you, but you should be able to find normally at least one resource over the 50% that you will need (alum/steel/iron/ore)

Now I bet in that cross server lot trade you didn't put any Chem harvs, as the fiberplast / inert petro is the killer then, as you need maybe 600k of each.

I manage to get all the resources in less than a 2 week period, and still haven't finished shipwright, as well nobody that i am making stuff for needed anything that high - Okay we are all close to master pilot now, so finishing off the last 250k xp will get done, I have about 40 lots at my disposal, but none of them are cross server, they are all from friends - They let me do the harvesting so they can have the best bits. Yes okay it's boring spending an hour every 10 days or so moving them around to get the best spawns, but it's worth doing, as it will increase the amount you can pull and the quality of the stuff tremedously.. Just think if you had had them all on 50% spots then you would have 32292000units (32.292 mill ) of steel from the 45 days - if they had all been on 90% spots then it would have been 58125600units (58.13 mill units) !!!! - or enough to completly fill 3 medium houses (in 100k stacks) and still leave 130 stacks over ...

Think About it !!!!

Oh yeah, would have cost you 7.5m credits on the 13's (90cr/hr) = 0.13 cr/unit mining costs - A tidy profit for all the mass resource harvestors!!

Message Edited by MackAgp on 11-08-2004 10:42 PM

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MindlessRouse wrote:

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Little-Green-Guy wrote:

lot swaps are an exploit.

/exploiter

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no there not...

Anyways ill swap with ya i need somemore send me a pm or a xServer tell

/tell Tarqunias.Rouse Message

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Well you may join us at Akira-X.... I managed to gather some of the fiberplast/radioactive/copper for my guild SWs - - -> Tamiko/Amythyst/Jacet/Vibia. Also has dropped harvestors for steel for them...I have 2 toons so its easier on my part to help them...at 1cr per 100k lot...

wibblo

Lot swaps ruin the economy, more in other professions than shipwright, because you can have those 80 harvesters plus a guild hall, storage houses, AND 10 factories churning out goods. Myself and two others mined the resources for shipwright in 3 weeks, using an average of 6 lots per person, don't know how you had so much difficulty. My biggest problem is the particular resources at times. Didn't see too many others having problems either, as far as the known lot-swappers go.

Fortunately shipwright cancels out the factory advantage lot-swappers get.

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YukiGoGo wrote:

First off, let me say that, though my signature is for my 1st tooon, Tamiko, I also run AmyThyst, who is a novice SW. So, please do not feel the need to tell me to go to my own profession board. ^_^

Ok, about Lot Swaps. I happily admit that I and my ig fiance have about 80 harvesters running, the majority of which are from cross server lot trades. I don't see the problem with this, but everyone seems to hate it. Why is that? And, how is one supposed to mine the massive amounts of resources needed with only a fraction of those harvesters? Even with our 80 some-odd harvesters, we have run out of steel before one of us has made Master SW. I haven't even been able to grind past Novice yet. We had even been saving up resources for about a month and a half prior to the JTL release. Maybe some of you have been stockpiling longer, or had friends to give/sell you steel, or got lucky and bought up someone's vendor stock early on. Now, however, I can't find steel to save my life. I searched countless vendors, and posted in the trade forums, all to no avail. If any of you have a vision of people like me sucking up massive amounts of steel easily, and hording it, getting us ahead in our profession, let me pop that thought bubble right now. Simply isnt happening. If there is a better way to do it, one that doesnt require all those harvesters, and the support of tons of friends/guildmates, please, someone enlighten me? I am all for taking care of my server's economy, and want to be a caring, considerate competitor with my fellow SW's, and I think I am. Am I so wrong?

Next....

I see people endlessly complaining about the high quality looted components on the bazaars, and I have to say that it does concern me too. However, has anyone considered the profit potential from selling Reverse Engineered components made from this same loot? The stats are generally even better, it takes little direct work, and the final product can be sold for a very nice markup. Perhaps this was a marketing idea devised by the devs to allow us to make money not only from crafting, but from Reverse Engineering. I mean, if the components were of lesser quality, say equal to or less than what we can craft, and reverse engineering brought them up to, or only slightly better than, what we can craft now, then what would be the point of Reverse Engineering, when you could craft just as well? (Of course, it would save tons in resources. ^_^ )

I and my partner have just started stocking a vendor exclusively with RE'd components, and I suspect, when the word gets out, they will sell very, very well. Of course, I can be a bit of a ditz sometimes, even without blonde hair. so, maybe someone can tell me if this seems like a valid point and good idea?

*ducks behind a leftover armor panel, waiting for the flames and rudeness she has become so used to on the forums*

Thanks!

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lot-swapping is an exploit and a problem, as the Devs have said, for this primary reason:

Servers are designed with the idea of a closed economy based on the usage patterns of the people *playing* on the server. Meaning that the economy is designed to take into account wealth generated by those playing on the server and also the money that they pay back out of the system during the normal course of things. they're not designed to interact across server boundries.

Which is what cross-server swaps are-- interaction across server boundries. Lotswap characters are not played. They exist to only generate wealth, with no other contribution to the economy. Normal play characters, in addition to generating wealth, also pay wealth out of the system. Wealth both in terms of credits and resources. Lot swap characters do NOT. they only generate wealth. this unbalances the server's economy-- it wasn't designed to work this way.

Using a loophole in the game to benefit yourself in a way that the game was not meant to support, especially in a way HARMFUL to the game as a whole is exploiting. You use something the game lets you do that was NOT INTENDED or you to do to get ahead. And that's an exploit of a gap in the system, whether the devs are banning you for it today or not.

This is, of course, not applicable to people swapping lots with friends who play on the same server, and guilds that work together. they work within the system. Going to someone on another server for the sole purpose of gaining more lots is working *outside* the system, and that's where the exploitation is occuring.

Just did, have a look. this is a paraphrase of what the Devs had to say on the topic, in some posting way back a few months ago when Lot swaps were a hot topic. I'd go find the thread, but I'm quite tired.

Ive had to swap lots not only for harvestors but also for houses. Where do the devs think we are going to store all the resources and space loot. How are we supposed to gather anywhere from 2 to 8 or more duplicate loots for reverse engineering when a house taking 2 lots hold 150 items. I dont know about you but Ive had to put up three small houses just for space loot and Im still maxed out. Im looking for another lot trade so I can put up a few more houses. One fix the developers could do is lift the insane item limit in houses.