Shipwright Archive
Thread: Shipwrights Unite!!! Pricing issues
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moody628
Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:58 pm
#1
Well, it will be interesting to see if Shipwrights sell themselves out as a profession like Architects did.
For your consideration.
Steel at 6cpu
Aluminum at 4cpu
LGO at 4cpu
Inert Petrochem at 2cpu
I suspect that these are fare rates for resources on all galaxies.
Novice Ship
2k of Steel = 12k
1k of Aluminum = 4k
1k of LGO = 4k
1k of Inert Petrochem = 2k
This means that the base cost of the resources for a Novice ship would be 22k! This doesn't cover your overhead expenses such as your tools and stations, or your vendor costs, or your house maintainence, ect. So, the actually cost per blueprint is actually even more!
So, if you sell a blueprint on the bazaar, you are giving away 16k of your hard earned money, AND you're giving away your time and your profit.
Simple rule of business is this... wholesale is 3x cost, retail is 5x cost. There are a multitude of more complex formulae, but that one's simple and straight forward.
This puts a Novice starship at 66k for wholesale and 110k for retail.
And there are shipwrights who are claiming that this is ripping people off.
Excuse me?
The last metrics I saw for my server (probably 2 months old) is that we have 3100 characters. Given alt accounts and such, that's probably 2000 players. If HALF the players on my server buy JtL, then I have 1000 possible customers. Now, imagine that only 1/3 of them want to mess with shipwright... that means that on average, each shipwright is going to have 3 customers!!! Ever. Even if it's only 5%, then I have only 20 customers. Now, I figure I can expect the average pilot to go through 3 ships on their way up, and then with decay, maybe they'll need a new chassis every 6 months. Odds are with loot drops and RE, they're never going to need components from me... just the chassis blueprints.
So... what happens? If I train my client base to expect 6k blueprints, I'm going through the hassle of shipwright for as little as 3 * 6k, or 18k every 6 months. If we go the other extreme, and say 20 clients and price a high-end blueprint at 10x the low one, then I'm still looking at only 20 * 60k, or 1.2 million every 6 months.
I can run through a quarter of that amount in one scan of the world bazaar... or setting up one round of heavy harvesters to run for 8 days.
So, my total income from a year of shipsmithing would run my overhead for about 2 months.
So... think of it i these terms. A car made of cheap materials (Hyundai) runs 9k in the real world. A bass boat made of cheap materials runs 40k in the real world. In SWG, a bike made from grinding materials costs 10k... so shouldn't a ship made from grinding materials cost at least 45k?
I would strongly urge ALL shipwrights to set your prices based on the cost of resources on your server. Sell to your friends and in bulk at wholesale rates (3x what the value of the resources is), and sell to the man on the street at retail (5x the value of the resources).
And when you make something out of that sweet steel that has OQ 956 and sells for 12cpu, price accordingly.
Khristen
Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:54 pm
#2
You have some very good points in here. Good job compiling all those numbers. I myself have been going at 10 cpu for chassis, 12 cpu for tools, and 15 cpu for components considering I could sell many of the resources used for that much easily.
While it's too early to tell, I believe that the shipwright profession could easily end up with the low profit margins of architect. Awhile back, architects worked at a concentrated push to up their profits by setting the price of small houses at 15-20k instead of the 6k they had been going for (which was making product at a loss). There wasn't a whole lot of complaining when many architects started that. I did the same, and continue to do so, and have no problem selling them at that price.
Uniting on pricing, at least in a general way, is beneficial for all shipwrights old and new. There is always going to be variation from server to server just as there will always be people undercutting as well as overcharging. Having a guideline is incredibly helpful for the crafters as well as the buyers, particularly those just starting out.
When I first became a tailor, I was amazed at their profession boards because I actually found helpful advice about pricing rather than the usual "Check other crafters on your server, shop around, and see what everyone else is charging." That's good advice to some degree, but it doesn't always help. There was an actual price guide to be found, listing all the items--with prices--and a formula for pricing in order to adjust accordingly. I've used it ever since without any problems, and I'm not the only one who has done so successfully.
So many people say not to base prices on CPU, but it is a very effective system with a little tweaking. When I first became a master architect a few months after launch, it was virtually impossible to find any set guides for pricing. So I based it solely off of cpu. Later I tweaked it a bit for named resources and the like, but I use that system to this day. And several people I know have used my list (which I have posted on my company's section of my guild's forums) as a guide to price their own things.
I'd really love to see shipwrights come to some kind of agreement on a pricing structure. It's really going to help us all in the end.
Brilyn
Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:23 pm
#3
Your mathimatics is bang on.
But lets clear up a completely erroneous assumption:
That we all buy our resources.
Mining one's own resources costs:
Steel at 0.2cpu
Aluminum at 0.2cpu
LGO at 0.2cpu
Inert Petrochem at 0.2cpu
2k of Steel = 400c
1k of Aluminum = 200c
1k of LGO = 200c
1k of Inert Petrochem = 200c
This means that the base cost of the resources for a Novice ship would be 1k!
This doesn't cover your overhead expenses such as your tools and stations, or your vendor costs, or your house maintainence, ect.
So, the actually cost per blueprint is actually even more, but is *easily* covered by that 500% margin you've given yourself over the actual cost of the resources.
Just a thought.
(and no, I don't plan to sell my blueprints on the bazaar.... I have vendors.....)
PyronFirewalker
Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:36 pm
#4
He isn't assuming that you are buying the resources. He is saying that what he has mined he can sellat those prices. If you could sell the resource for 10 credits a unit why would you make something that sells for 2 credits a unit out of those resources?
Brilyn wrote:
Your mathimatics is bang on.
But lets clear up a completely erroneous assumption:
That we all buy our resources.
GalacticHustler
Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:40 pm
#5
my question for all of you that sell parts on the cheap is would you have a problem if I bought the parts you sold at 5cpu and sold them for 10-20cpu?
PyronFirewalker
Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:55 pm
#6
I remember when Armor and Weaponsmiths would scream about people doing this. I say go for it. They made their money why should they care what you do with it? (of course I would assume that you would label your vendor to show that you are reselling stuff you didn't make.)
Brilyn
Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:42 pm
#7
< If you could sell the resource for 10 credits a unit why would you make something that sells for 2 credits a unit out of those resources? >
1. Because I can, and still make a profit.
2. Because the arbitrary value of said resources is irrelevant. If you feel they *are* relevant, then feel free to track the value of your components based on the inflation of worth of the resources used over time.
If you are *not* going to do this, then please stop lecturing me. You're a hypocrite, and I don't have time for you.
If you *are* going to do this. Good luck to you. You're mad. I'd do it for *real* money, but not for my relaxation.
3. Because resources-sales are not my business. They *were* part of it, prior to SW. I wish to sell Components, therefore the arbitrary value of the resources is not relevant to me. ('scuse me while I beat a point into the ground)
And that's it really.
Chatte
Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:46 pm
#8
A few things to consider also.
Most of the SW items are hand crafted. On release day I spent 10 hours making completly outfitted ships for people. At any given time I had 6 tools cooking and people camped at my shop for hours.
I assume it will settle down some, and if people plan and order a level 5 set of components when they are at level 3 component usage they might have their stuff the moment they level etc.
Getting back the pricing. All of my grind stuff was labeled (budget) and priced at 5cpu, all of the first 3 tiers of ships of those are gone.
Fully experimented chassis is priced at 9 CPU at my shop. I am selling components at 30CPU and can not keep it in stock. I am in custom order mode for all handcrafted stuff. Once my factories start producing missile packs I will price them at 1K per shot and go from there (eg. 10 use proton missile pack 10K).
Of course, while people were waiting they almost cleaned me out of harvesters and furniture as well 
. So, I have a long weekend of crafting ahead of me.
. So, I have a long weekend of crafting ahead of me.
Brilyn
Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:56 pm
#9
< my question for all of you that sell parts on the cheap is would you have a problem if I bought the parts you sold at 5cpu and sold them for 10-20cpu? >
Doesn't really bother me, to be honest.
For the most part, I set the price for an item at the amount of credits I want for it.
For the most part.
However, you buying out my vendor and reselling is detracting from my business. If I choose to sell at 5cpu to pilots, it's because I'm looking at the long-term gain of repeat business. Not a once-off sale.
Not just the financial, but the reciprocal gain. Of pilots bringing me Looted components to RE. Of Pilots discussing with me their needs, and sending their friends to me.
If you buyout my vendor, you impact *that* aspect of my business.
So I'll ban you.
czarnp
Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:00 pm
#10
I couldn't agree more! I noticed a bunch of TIE blueprints on the bazzar in Theed (Kauri) today for 3000 credits. 
While I doubt anybody can keep up with this type of pricing, it is frustrating since people then view my prices as high. Needless to say I bought what I could but my inventory was already close to full.
Lumpi667
Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:13 pm
#11
Im not a shipwright.
but selling a starter ship for 25k or 30k? I have even seen some for 40k???
Imagine what a new player will think of this?
He really dont have that much, and you are through the initial mission in about 1 hour.
With your noob droid missions you maybe have 10k, but you need to spend money for stuff for the ground game (if you want something different than a CDEF and your noob clothes)...
I have crafted myself some time ago and even with a small harvester you get your ressources for less then 1 CPU. Sure you can sell them for 3 or 4 or even more, but why dont you do it then and take all the pain of craft things out of it?
Anyone remembers the time he was completly new? I was totally happy as I earned my first 100k, after about 3 months!
If you sell for less you can make even more money as word of your business is spread, and newbs will remember if you sponsor them their first ship! They will come back to you, even earlier if your prices are low!
If you gain one time 10k or 10 times 1k there is no difference, but you will allow others to have more fun, play the game, earn money and come back to you and spend it at your Vendor...
I could imagine that it wouldnt hurt much to sell Tier1 ships for production costs and starter ships on the bazaar or cheap on your Vendor, as they will remember you and come back to buy other stuff like components, ammo, reapair tools higher Tier's ships...
Just my thoughts about this, as I play this to have fun and not to work, as you do, too, I hope!
Fallsguy
Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:28 pm
#12
I do not think you guys should try and price fix anything.
It is competetion and if you have to buy or harvest your own.
Also if you are experiencing what we are on tempest - the stock goes very very fast and if you are handcrafting everything. You price accordingly.
I shop around to get what I feel is a fair and competetive price. You will not hurt for business regardless of your prices.
Just my observation so far.
Still looking for missle launchers - those go faster than anything else so far.
Brilyn
Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:30 pm
#13
< but selling a starter ship for 25k or 30k? I have even seen some for 40k???
Imagine what a new player will think of this? >
He'll think 'damn, I'm glad I got a free one'.
Just like the Swoops.
< If you gain one time 10k or 10 times 1k there is no difference, but you will allow others to have more fun, play the game, earn money and come back to you and spend it at your Vendor... >
Actually, the difference is *you* have had to craft 10 times as much stuff.
Which uses 10 times as much resources.
If it costs 500c to make that item, then in the first place, you've made 9500c. But in the second you've made 5000c. For 10 times the work.
Newbie wants cheap. Good for newbie.
Brilyn wants a *reasonable* return on his 'stuff'.
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