Shipwright Archive
Thread: The patches are slowly chipping away at the viability of SW.
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Marzuk147
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:07 pm
#1
"Computer programs. Any major difference between an average component, and one made with the finest resources. Look at the new Capacitor Overload. with a 75% increase in output, why would anyone pay for a premium products?"
I disagree with you here 100%. I have 2 master pilots, and Im 150k away from a master shipwright. Want to know what stops me from using a shipwright made capacitor? They are inferior. Want to know what stops me from using a shipwright engine? They are inferior. Add in the overloads though, and you are set. Experiment P/Y/R a bit more than speed, use engine overload 3, and you have a maneuverable replaceable engine.
The REAL problem with shipright? No reason for people to be in space other than making money at master. No content, no strong tie to the ground game. JTL will pass as a wonderfull novelty, not as a must have expansion. Already space participation is slowing WAY down. People are done with it and returning to the ground game as it has nothing to offer.
I disagree with you here 100%. I have 2 master pilots, and Im 150k away from a master shipwright. Want to know what stops me from using a shipwright made capacitor? They are inferior. Want to know what stops me from using a shipwright engine? They are inferior. Add in the overloads though, and you are set. Experiment P/Y/R a bit more than speed, use engine overload 3, and you have a maneuverable replaceable engine.
The REAL problem with shipright? No reason for people to be in space other than making money at master. No content, no strong tie to the ground game. JTL will pass as a wonderfull novelty, not as a must have expansion. Already space participation is slowing WAY down. People are done with it and returning to the ground game as it has nothing to offer.
Eaca
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:43 pm
#2
I'd say your concern about capacitor overload is negated by capacitor to shield shunt. Lets face it, when you use CtSS4 your cap is drained, you want to be able to keep firing until your droid command is ready for use again while at the same time have the cap full enough to recharge shields again. Honestly the way I see the problem with crafted caps is they're odd numbered level guns. If you look at loot drops, odd level drops suck too, its the even level ones that are great.
Marzuk147
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:03 pm
#3
Also consider that Weapon Overload 3 appears to be bugged currently. Once Weapon Overload 3 is fixed, trust me people are DEFINATELY going to want the best capacitor they can get.
GadonThek
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:28 pm
#4
Most of what you say makes sense, but I take issue with two comments:
1, Droid Programs - Should not be nerfed. Ever. They are very useful, they dont seem to me to be overpowered, and if anything, they are helping shipwright sales at the moment. I know I wouldnt be using a crafted engine if I didnt have Engine Overload 3 to improve the YPR stats.
2, Weapon Type - I dont see anything wrong with allowing Disruptors and Ions being added into the same weapon to increase the vs shields and armour rating.
Something that many shipwrights dont seem to understand is; loot is pretty much the only "game" left in JTL after Mastery. Spending hours hunting for great drops to RE into the perfect parts is fantastic fun, I love comparing stats on items and adding to or removing from my personal RE pile, its enjoyable. If all loot drops are inferior to crafted, or the only loot drops which can possibly be superior to crafted are the space equivalent of Legendary weapons on the ground, you totally kill off one of the few activities that's enjoyable after Mastery. No, thats not the fault of Shipwrights, SOE could/should have put more content in, but regardless, its actually fun to kill a ship in JTL and know theres a good chance of getting something useable, rather than CDEF Pistol 623846175471562536.
1, Droid Programs - Should not be nerfed. Ever. They are very useful, they dont seem to me to be overpowered, and if anything, they are helping shipwright sales at the moment. I know I wouldnt be using a crafted engine if I didnt have Engine Overload 3 to improve the YPR stats.
2, Weapon Type - I dont see anything wrong with allowing Disruptors and Ions being added into the same weapon to increase the vs shields and armour rating.
Something that many shipwrights dont seem to understand is; loot is pretty much the only "game" left in JTL after Mastery. Spending hours hunting for great drops to RE into the perfect parts is fantastic fun, I love comparing stats on items and adding to or removing from my personal RE pile, its enjoyable. If all loot drops are inferior to crafted, or the only loot drops which can possibly be superior to crafted are the space equivalent of Legendary weapons on the ground, you totally kill off one of the few activities that's enjoyable after Mastery. No, thats not the fault of Shipwrights, SOE could/should have put more content in, but regardless, its actually fun to kill a ship in JTL and know theres a good chance of getting something useable, rather than CDEF Pistol 623846175471562536.
Kalano
Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:03 pm
#5
The changes to the freebee ship has made me very sadden. There will always be those who complain about how expensive everything is. So why didn't they nerf the armorsmiths and weaponsmiths with uber drops?
No, they kill the SW because a bunch of whoevers couldn't figure out that their freebee ship is good enought to get thru tier 1 and then buy one. I sure hell could afford one by then. with repairs only being 100c, i saved cash like a mofo, and that was before the chassie dealer bought parts. i never did a ground mission for cash since JTL, i am not a master pilot at all. I do missions, i kill spawns, i loot like mad on the low tier ships. I use looted parts till i could afford better parts. i even have a bunch of purchased parts i can't use and i still can afford a new ship when i need to.
Only takes me an hour or so now with all the new missions added in to make the money.
Oh good freak, the complainers couldn't group up to complete more mission to make money either? no, we have to solo everything, waste cash on crap, forget to sell loot for money, and keep wondering why there is a credit chip in there inventory. Idiots, thats all i can think of from the pilots that cry about prices. they don't have a clue how to shop around. No, we complain that the guild SW will be the only ones selling cheap and we can't afford crap because we saw one shop selling high prices.
They took away the the novice SW only hope of starting a ground business which wasn't going to be much since anyone, and i mean anyone could be up in tier 2 missions in less than a day.
Oh, and the missions are too easy in my opinion. They were perfect the last day of JTL beta, but then they dumbed them down and still, they can't make money. Oye. JTL is my first flight sim every seriously playing beyond the first few tries. I make cash easy in space. Why can't they? Do they not read the game book? did they not ask questions on how to make a ship? do they not use any tactics flying? maybe they are the uber wimpy that haven't gotten a clue.
Bring in the mining profession so that we can have a ton more resources harvested and the resource price would drop, then the SW prices would dropalso. But no, we hurt the novice SW instead for someone who can't get their game handed to them on a silver platter.
Marzuk147
Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:55 pm
#6
What is bugging me the most, is what appears to be a large number of capped resources.... like schematics calling for steel with high conductivity.. I dont know what steel caps at, but Im guessing that it isnt over 500.
Theodis_Darkstar
Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:52 am
#7
Let me start of first by saying, I love being a shipwright. My shop is very busy offering a full complement of chassis, high quality components (from the best resources), RE, kits, and even computers. I consider myself successful, and intend to do this for quite some time.
There are some real challenges with the long term viability of our trade however. Here are two specifically, feel free to list more.
Crafted vs. RE components. Specifically our Engine (PYRs) and capacitors are lacking.
Computer programs. Any major difference between an average component, and one made with the finest resources. Look at the new Capacitor Overload. with a 75% increase in output, why would anyone pay for a premium products?
What can be done to differentiate components and chassis built with care, attention, and great resources, from the run-of-the-mill? OR...is this running as designed? Should we just assume (similar to architect) that an ok resource is good enough? I was really hoping this would be more akin to the weapon or armor crafting professions.
For discussion, here are some ideas that may help:
Add a Shipyard specialty to player cities. We could get special bonuses to craft there;
Add limited schematic drops that would use named resources that would enable us to boost performance on components that we could place in the optional slot when crafting;
Modify Capacitors and Engines crafting ranges to allow us to be more on parity with the average dropped component;
Let us RE our own components! You'd have to eat up more resources, but would come out ahead - just like dropped components.
Remove the ability to RE unrelated projectile weapons. (e.g combining disruptors with cannons).
and finally:
Reduce the effect of computer programs. I believe they are just too powerful, and overshadow the hard work and committment some of the best components require (expensive resources, bespin port, and patience).
There are some real challenges with the long term viability of our trade however. Here are two specifically, feel free to list more.
Crafted vs. RE components. Specifically our Engine (PYRs) and capacitors are lacking.
Computer programs. Any major difference between an average component, and one made with the finest resources. Look at the new Capacitor Overload. with a 75% increase in output, why would anyone pay for a premium products?
What can be done to differentiate components and chassis built with care, attention, and great resources, from the run-of-the-mill? OR...is this running as designed? Should we just assume (similar to architect) that an ok resource is good enough? I was really hoping this would be more akin to the weapon or armor crafting professions.
For discussion, here are some ideas that may help:
Add a Shipyard specialty to player cities. We could get special bonuses to craft there;
Add limited schematic drops that would use named resources that would enable us to boost performance on components that we could place in the optional slot when crafting;
Modify Capacitors and Engines crafting ranges to allow us to be more on parity with the average dropped component;
Let us RE our own components! You'd have to eat up more resources, but would come out ahead - just like dropped components.
Remove the ability to RE unrelated projectile weapons. (e.g combining disruptors with cannons).
and finally:
Reduce the effect of computer programs. I believe they are just too powerful, and overshadow the hard work and committment some of the best components require (expensive resources, bespin port, and patience).
Message Edited by Theodis_Darkstar on 12-09-2004 01:01 PM
Starcloud
Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:15 am
#8
That's why you have the new Shipwright steel... it *isn't* capped for conductivity.
Envoy3113
Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:19 am
#9
No cap on steel conductivity.
With some of the programs availible I would think it would be a big push for crafted caps. Somewhat like a disposable item, a low mass decent crafted cap can now get some functionality. I haven't been able to play with the cap overcharge, but I'm fairly sure that sheild shunt damages the cap (I had a shot break through, but I'm fairly sure it hit my engine not my cap). Now, what this means is, there is no freekin way I'm going to use my 44 recharge cap in a situation that might call for me to refill my sheilds. I can now get away with a crafted cap, overcharge it, and not worry about decaying it. Matter of fact, an extended life battery coupled with the overcharge...I dunno the stats as my SW hasn't had the need to build a cap as of yet.
I know I won't be playing till saturday and don't belive we have the named copper for it, some stats maybe? Might be a selling point.
Marzuk147
Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:23 am
#10
I have several guides, and even a few formulas stating that "old steel" caps at 650 on conductivity. I guess you are right though, Ill have to check every 3 weeks to see if it has shifted into something decent.
Jacquelyn
Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:03 pm
#11
I am beginning to think that shipwright should have never been put in the game. I have never seen so many nerf cries and so much jockeying to have a great game (space expansion) destroyed so that thegreedy can sqeeze a fewextra credits into their bank accounts. I would gladyrather them remove theshipwright profession entirely rather than allow them to continue to whine and destroy the one thing in a long time that had any kind of chance of making SWG fun again.
Unfortunately the devs seem perfectly willing to allow a few in the community to destroy the game for everyone else.
GadonThek
Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:33 pm
#12
Jacquelyn wrote:I am beginning to think that shipwright should have never been put in the game. I have never seen so many nerf cries and so much jockeying to have a great game (space expansion) destroyed so that the greedy can sqeeze a few extra credits into their bank accounts. I would glady rather them remove the shipwright profession entirely rather than allow them to continue to whine and destroy the one thing in a long time that had any kind of chance of making SWG fun again.Unfortunately the devs seem perfectly willing to allow a few in the community to destroy the game for everyone else.
/applaud
"Never have so few done so little, for so many"
Message Edited by GadonThek on 12-11-2004 02:33 AM
Marzuk147
Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:51 pm
#13
Its just pretty simple though, Im a master shipwright, and I use all looted items, except for the reactor, and the armor panels. You dont see something wrong with that?
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